Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[Siddi]

No I'm equating their softness, with softness. This team needs Rempe playing 3 minutes a game to not play like a group of frightened rabbits. Our highest paid forwards are allergic to contact. But I'm glad they have they have such good camaraderie they quit on the fans for a month because management decided to trade their 2 worst players.

Lets hope then that JT will ride in on his monster truck and put an end to all this damn hugging.

 

[NYR Viper]

They need a 3rd line center. Kreider for Frederic and a 1st from Boston is something I've liked.

What do you think he gets?

 

[McRanger92]

Lets hope then that JT will ride in on his monster truck and put an end to all this damn hugging.

I'll settle for him shooting the puck on the power play, and being able to matchup against other team's top centers. It's pulling teeth for our current core to do that.

 

[B17 Apricots]

Idk why people keep wanting to push these moves to improve the team until the summer. There are 34 games left and we have a 50% chance at the playoffs. We won the President's Trophy last year and have advanced to 2/3 ECFs. That doesnt scream rebuild to me. I just watched the worse month of Rangers hockey Ive seen in a decade, where everyone said we'd be dead and buried (including myself). Guess what? We are a 4 points out with 2 games in hand, and jumped 3 teams in the past week. We've left points on the table even in this solid stretch. And if anyone comes at me saying they dont want to back in as a wild card, spare me. We were the overall 1 seed and it didnt do crap for us last year. Just get in is every teams goal, but Rangers fans are too entitled; we should just quit instead. Loser mentality permeates the locker room and fanbase. Sorry if that offends some people.

Yeah but I think you also have to be realistic with where this group is at. We can add Miller but we still have big time holes. Kreider is still getting a bunch of ice time. He's making 6.5M a year. This is not the CK from years past. Maybe it's the injuries, but he's on pace for ~35 points this year over a full season. Mika might be lucky to hit 50 points this year. They've sucked, everyone knows that. We still have Lindgren getting top 4 minutes. Thats another huge role being wasted. We have a number of players underperforming still. I think there's just too many adjustments that still need to be made and I don't think that's going to happen this season.

The point of adding JTM isn't to add to the current core. They've fallen off a cliff. The point of adding him is to replace the current core. Thats the entire point. I don't care if Drury acquires him during the season... but under the right circumstances. But based on how things have played out this year I think a better outlook is to view it as a transitionary season.

We're trending in the right direction now, and that's great and all (depending on your outlook). The teams in front of us are not particularly strong, so there's a real possibility that we could make the playoffs regardless if Drury buys or sells. But it doesn't change the fact that Drury should still be looking to recoup what he can by the deadline. Look at the Caps last year. They were selling at the deadline and still squeeked into playoffs. Lindgren, Vesey, Quick, Jones, Smith... all these sorts of secondary players should be on the table.

 

[McRanger92]

What do you think he gets?

That's the rub. He profiles as a guy who gets overpaid but he's having a shit year.

 

[McRanger92]

Yeah but I think you also have to be realistic with where this group is at. We can add Miller but we still have big time holes. Kreider is still getting a bunch of ice time. He's making 6.5M a year. This is not the CK from years past. Maybe it's the injuries, but he's on pace for ~35 points this year over a full season. Mika might be lucky to hit 50 points this year. They've sucked, everyone knows that. We still have Lindgren getting top 4 minutes. Thats another huge role being wasted. We have a number of players underperforming still. I think there's just too many adjustments that still need to be made and I don't think that's going to happen this season.

The point of adding JTM isn't to add to the current core. They've fallen off a cliff. The point of adding him is to replace the current core. Thats the entire point. I don't care if Drury acquires him during the season... but under the right circumstances. But based on how things have played out this year I think a better outlook is to view it as a transitionary season.

We're trending in the right direction now, and that's great and all (depending on your outlook). The teams in front of us are not particularly strong, so there's a real possibility that we could make the playoffs regardless if Drury buys or sells. But it doesn't change the fact that Drury should still be looking to recoup what he can by the deadline. Look at the Caps last year. They were selling at the deadline and still squeeked into playoffs. Lindgren, Vesey, Quick, Jones, Smith... all these sorts of secondary players should be on the table.

Management is not resting on their laurels. they've added Borgen and Vaakanainen. They claimed Kaliyev. They had a deal for JT lined up as of Saturday. I have no doubt that if the JT Miller deal goes through, the Rangers will do everything they can to upgrade on Lindgren and possibly trade Kreider before the deadline (depending on how he looks from now until then). They are retooling on the fly. they can make a run this year if they keep working to make these moves. I'm bullish on their chances.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

We should attempt to improve the team at each and every opportunity

Also until we correctly build with a youth based foundation, barring luck, we are unlikely to go far in the POs.

So which is it Bern? Because you can't have it both ways. You want to correctly build a good youth foundation then you want draft picks, and some high picks in there.

But if you want to improve the team at each and every opportunity then you have to trade away youth and draft picks for established players.

It's clear what Drury wants to do since Kakko was traded, Jones to follow soon, and we were just about to trade Chytil and our 1st+ for a 30+ year old.

 

[bernmeister]

No I'm equating their softness, with softness. This team needs Rempe playing 3 minutes a game to not play like a group of frightened rabbits. Our highest paid forwards are allergic to contact. But I'm glad they have they have such good camaraderie they quit on the fans for a month because management decided to trade their 2 worst players.

More like 8-10 min

 

[Machinehead]

JT miller has Brad Richards part 2 written all over him. Except a shittier presence in the room.

Cool.

Brad Richards was a major part of a few very good teams.

We're not in the same position now, but that's a weird example.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Yeah but I think you also have to be realistic with where this group is at. We can add Miller but we still have big time holes. Kreider is still getting a bunch of ice time. He's making 6.5M a year. This is not the CK from years past. Maybe it's the injuries, but he's on pace for ~35 points this year over a full season. Mika might be lucky to hit 50 points this year. They've sucked, everyone knows that. We still have Lindgren getting top 4 minutes. Thats another huge role being wasted. We have a number of players underperforming still. I think there's just too many adjustments that still need to be made and I don't think that's going to happen this season.

The point of adding JTM isn't to add to the current core. They've fallen off a cliff. The point of adding him is to replace the current core. Thats the entire point. I don't care if Drury acquires him during the season... but under the right circumstances. But based on how things have played out this year I think a better outlook is to view it as a transitionary season.

We're trending in the right direction now, and that's great and all (depending on your outlook). The teams in front of us are not particularly strong, so there's a real possibility that we could make the playoffs regardless if Drury buys or sells. But it doesn't change the fact that Drury should still be looking to recoup what he can by the deadline. Look at the Caps last year. They were selling at the deadline and still squeeked into playoffs. Lindgren, Vesey, Quick, Jones, Smith... all these sorts of secondary players should be on the table.

This logic falls pretty far short to me, because how many more years does Miller realistically have at his current level? Zibanejad is his age and already facing the cliff. Kreider is 2 years older and has taken a big step back.

If Miller has 2, maybe 3 years of playing at a high level, is that “replacing the core” or is that applying a short term bandaid that is highly likely to be ultimately meaningless given the other holes this team has, as well as the decline of other core pieces?

 

[bernmeister]

So which is it Bern? Because you can't have it both ways. You want to correctly build a good youth foundation then you want draft picks, and some high picks in there.

But if you want to improve the team at each and every opportunity then you have to trade away youth and draft picks for established players.

It's clear what Drury wants to do since Kakko was traded, Jones to follow soon, and we were just about to trade Chytil and our 1st+ for a 30+ year old.

The bold is the error in your thinking.
It assumes improved opportunity WILL ALWAYS result in being required to "trade away youth and draft picks for established players". Not only is this not the case, it is the exception to the rule.

b'c of cap, and premise that extending window maxes cup runs, one should seek young core of as much quality but cheaper youth over more expensive vets as possible, meaning to have better depth and roster flexibility, you do NOT deal youth, except to trade up for better youth [like moving up for Schneider].

THAT is what should be THE RULE

You do not do as you suggest, you do the opposite.
You sell high on most vets while they still have value b'c they produce enuf w/correct amount of term.
We failed to do this w/Buch, stupidly self renting him while he had sufficient production and good term, despite no hope those teams get to SC final. And so we backed ourselves in a corner and dealt him when he had only a smidgen of rfa left, and so we got bupkis

There are exceptions to every rule, but the above is the way to go, and it is consistent, not bern wants to have it both ways as you describe

 

[Machinehead]

I'm not "pro or "anti" Miller. I'm taking it as it comes. I like the player, but if Drury doesnt wanna rawdog a 1st for it, I'm totally cool with that.

That being said, we've really spooked ourselves on the whole "big star past him prime" thing.

Richards was good. Hell, people bag on Scott Gomez. Tbh, Gomez is one of our best acquisitions since the lockout. We got two really solid years out of him and then traded him while he still had value for Ryan McDonagh.

Jagr and Messier were monumental for us in their mid-30's.

We got Hart-caliber play out of Panarin on a big UFA deal.

Gaborik could not have been a better signing from the years he gave us to the value he returned. 16 years after signing Gaborik, we still have a player directly from his trade web.

We've had plenty of hits on bringing in oldish big names. We've had plenty of hits on projects, too.

The only thing we don't hit with is developing our own forwards.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yeah and they got snuffed out by Florida too.

I 100% knew this would be the reply. You really think it was goalies hugging and not the goalie injury that resulted in this? Come on man, this take is so absurdly illogical.

 

[NYR Viper]

This logic falls pretty far short to me, because how many more years does Miller realistically have at his current level? Zibanejad is his age and already facing the cliff. Kreider is 2 years older and has taken a big step back.

If Miller has 2, maybe 3 years of playing at a high level, is that “replacing the core” or is that applying a short term bandaid that is highly likely to be ultimately meaningless given the other holes this team has, as well as the decline of other core pieces?

I don't disagree with this, but if we project forward 2-3 years, we are looking at Miller and his cap hit being comparable to what Kreider's is now in terms of percent of the cap. Even if Miller 'drops' in that time to a 60 point player, which is possible, that's still pretty good value. That $8m cap hit looks worse than it is because we haven't seen the cap increase as we are about to in a while

 

[McRanger92]

I 100% knew this would be the reply. You really think it was goalies hugging and not the goalie injury that resulted in this? Come on man, this take is so absurdly illogical.

I think team camaraderie is bullcrap if the team doesnt win. Boston hasnt been back to that level since and are having plenty of their own current day locker room problems. Im very much looking for a change to this Rangers team, every fan should be disillusioned by how the players behaved in November and December... Just because Mika's Lawyer came after me doesnt mean I see everything in black and white. My post history should speak for itself.

 

[Rongomania]

Brad Richards was a major part of a few very good teams.

We're not in the same position now, but that's a weird example.

He fell off a fuc*in’ cliff here bud. 31-33yrs old he was here.

I stand by my shuddering comparison.

 

[Machinehead]

He fell off a fuc*in’ cliff here bud. 31-33yrs old he was here.

I stand by my shuddering comparison.

He didn't fall off a cliff. He had a reasonable decline given his age. It's absolutely not a contract I would take back if I could.

 

[Rongomania]

He didn't fall off a cliff. He had a reasonable decline given his age. It's absolutely not a contract I would take back if I could.

Oh but Jt miller is going to be so much better.

Please. He ain’t the answer.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think team camaraderie is bullcrap if the team doesnt win. Boston hasnt been back to that level since and are having plenty of their own current day locker room problems. Im very much looking for a change to this Rangers team, every fan should be disillusioned by how the players behaved in November and December... Just because Mika's Lawyer came after me doesnt mean I see everything in black and white. My post history should speak for itself.

I don't like the sensitive nature of this team either and they were completely unprofessional but players hugging each other means nothing.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I don't disagree with this, but if we project forward 2-3 years, we are looking at Miller and his cap hit being comparable to what Kreider's is now in terms of percent of the cap. Even if Miller 'drops' in that time to a 60 point player, which is possible, that's still pretty good value. That $8m cap hit looks worse than it is because we haven't seen the cap increase as we are about to in a while

That's fair, but again in that instance I'm not considering him a core player that moves the needle on a contender i.e. the core has not been replaced.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't like the sensitive nature of this team either and they were completely unprofessional but players hugging each other means nothing.

Doesn't mean I can't make jokes about it!

 

[fm]

It's giving Richards for sure. Yes, UFA vs Trade, yes Tampa-alum vs homegrown, sure. But the age and profile (even position).. a little scary. But BR also had the concussion concerns IIRC

 

[TGWL]

Tired: trade for JT Miller

Wired: trade for Mat Barzal.

I watched that 5 times. I don't see anything like that

 

[UnparalledPark]

Disagree... the #1 issue was their play 5v5... from all lines.

They were power play merchants. That doesn't work when you can't outwork your opponent to draw power plays.

One could argue it wasn’t so much all lines, but instead the aforementioned Dmen couldn’t get the puck out of their own end.

 

[Fitzy]

Dallas wanted a whole package for Richards at the deadline and we were smart about not giving it to them. It was a first and two serious prospects at the time as I recall.