Speculation: Roster Building Thread : Part XVI (Playoffs or Retool?)

[NYR Viper]

That's fair, but again in that instance I'm not considering him a core player that moves the needle on a contender i.e. the core has not been replaced.

I agree, I do think he could be a nice piece for this team moving forward but if the plan is to just add Miller and push all the chips in again, I don't like it

 

[17futurecap]

Dallas wanted a whole package for Richards at the deadline and we were smart about not giving it to them. It was a first and two serious prospects at the time as I recall.

Rangers laugh off Stars’ asking price for Richards

WASHINGTON — That Joe Nieuwendyk, GM of the Stars, who knew he had such a sense of humor? The Post has learned Nieuwendyk told Rangers GM Glen Sather on Tuesday that it would cost the Blueshi…

nypost.com

 

[B17 Apricots]

This logic falls pretty far short to me, because how many more years does Miller realistically have at his current level? Zibanejad is his age and already facing the cliff. Kreider is 2 years older and has taken a big step back.

If Miller has 2, maybe 3 years of playing at a high level, is that “replacing the core” or is that applying a short term bandaid that is highly likely to be ultimately meaningless given the other holes this team has, as well as the decline of other core pieces?

As I've said, if you trade for Miller you're well aware of his age. That's obviously the risk. Viper made a good post outlining some of the older players that still performed at a high level. You can look at Kreider and Mika, you can also look at Pavelski and others. It goes both ways, that's the risk. So realistically, yes you're aiming for a few high end years left. He has 5 years left on his deal. Maybe those last couple you'd expect some drop off.

And when I say the team has big holes, it's largely based around the abominable drop off from the veterans. They will be gone, or in Mika's case at minimum his role will be reduced if he can't perform. Trouba is already gone. CK looks to be on his way out. Lindgren will likely be gone. Mika was our 1C. Kreider plays a large role as well. Lindgren and Tuba were in our top 4. We won the president's trophy with these players. Their decline are the main culprits in this downfall. Upgrading these roles are incredibly realistic and I think could put us in contention.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Can you tell me what he will do as a Ranger from age 32-37? Because those are the years I really care about.

He’ll do more than our 2025 1st round draft pick.

 

[Kovalev27]

Disagree... the #1 issue was their play 5v5... from all lines.

They were power play merchants. That doesn't work when you can't outwork your opponent to draw power plays.

You know who’s top 5 this year in expected goals 5v5. You’d be shocked. We’re one of them. Total 180

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Do we even know if JT Miller wants to go to Carolina or are the Canucks just hoping that theres wiggle room there?

Even so, Carolina can forgo lottery protection on their pick but thats an empty perk because they aren't going to be in the lottery. Rangers pick even with protections is likely to be higher.

Kotkaniemi sucks balls but Chytil has a legitimate injury history. What are they more comfortable with? A player with a limited ceiling who at best is a garden variety Brandon Sutter esque 3rd line center who will play 700+ relatively inconsequential NHL games or someone with more juice and potential but is a hit away from never playing again?

Roslovic vs Lindgren is interesting because it's a classic case of a guy who is probably chronically undervalued in this league vs one who is overvalued. Roslovic's shooting the lights out and that isn't sustainable but he's a decent player. Lindgren is awful but GMs are suckers for GRIT and LEADURSHIPP! Roslovic should be worth more but I bet Lindgren would almost universally be held in higher regard.

The 2nd and 3rd tier prospects is where Carolina has a big edge. They have way more of those guys and theirs are probably better than what the Rangers have to offer.

I agree, I do think he could be a nice piece for this team moving forward but if the plan is to just add Miller and push all the chips in again, I don't like it

Yeah if they trade for Miller it needs to come with further dismantling of the core.

Kreider for sure and Mika and Panarin if they're agreeable to it. I don't expect it to all happen over the next 6 weeks but it needs to happen by the summer.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Right. So waiting and trading for him later in the year doesn't hurt his real value to us... see what I'm saying?

Vancouver wants him gone now.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

My fear and the most likely outcome if we trade for miller is we keep krieder, zibs, smith, lindgren and others that should clearly go because they are the culture problem.

 

[AirGut]

Do we even know if JT Miller wants to go to Carolina or are the Canucks just hoping that theres wiggle room there?

Even so, Carolina can forgo lottery protection on their pick but thats an empty perk because they aren't going to be in the lottery. Rangers pick even with protections is likely to be higher.

Kotkaniemi sucks balls but Chytil has a legitimate injury history. What are they more comfortable with? A player with a limited ceiling who at best is a garden variety Brandon Sutter esque 3rd line center who will play 700+ relatively inconsequential NHL games or someone with more juice and potential but is a hit away from never playing again?

Roslovic vs Lindgren is interesting because it's a classic case of a guy who is probably chronically undervalued in this league vs one who is overvalued. Roslovic's shooting the lights out and that isn't sustainable but he's a decent player. Lindgren is awful but GMs are suckers for GRIT and LEADURSHIPP! Roslovic should be worth more but I bet Lindgren would almost universally be held in higher regard.

The 2nd and 3rd tier prospects is where Carolina has a big edge. They have way more of those guys and theirs are probably better than what the Rangers have to offer.




Yeah if they trade for Miller it needs to come with further dismantling of the core.

Kreider for sure and Mika and Panarin if they're agreeable to it. I don't expect it to all happen over the next 6 weeks but it needs to happen by the summer.

There are people with power & influence doing everything they can to f*** over the New York Rangers here I'll tell you that much. Of course they're desperately trying to strongman J.T. into going to Carolina.

 

[bl02]

Good let Carolina go in and overpay for a 32 year old Miller.
What we should be doing is hope Lindgren and Kreider have a terrific stretch before the TDL and we can maybe get some good value for them (young players/picks).

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There are people with power & influence doing everything they can to f*** over the New York Rangers here I'll tell you that much. Of course they're desperately trying to strongman J.T. into going to Carolina.

I don't think thats true. They came close to making a trade and it fell apart due to haggling over protections on a draft pick.

Vancouver is well within their right to try to find multiple suitors beyond the NY teams especially considering that outside of Dobson the Isles have f*** all to offer in the form of "now" help and that'd honestly be too much.

If JT tells Carolina to F off then yeah, Vancouver is f***ed.

 

[UnparalledPark]

Do we even know if JT Miller wants to go to Carolina or are the Canucks just hoping that theres wiggle room there?

Even so, Carolina can forgo lottery protection on their pick but thats an empty perk because they aren't going to be in the lottery. Rangers pick even with protections is likely to be higher.

Kotkaniemi sucks balls but Chytil has a legitimate injury history. What are they more comfortable with? A player with a limited ceiling who at best is a garden variety Brandon Sutter esque 3rd line center who will play 700+ relatively inconsequential NHL games or someone with more juice and potential but is a hit away from never playing again?

Roslovic vs Lindgren is interesting because it's a classic case of a guy who is probably chronically undervalued in this league vs one who is overvalued. Roslovic's shooting the lights out and that isn't sustainable but he's a decent player. Lindgren is awful but GMs are suckers for GRIT and LEADURSHIPP! Roslovic should be worth more but I bet Lindgren would almost universally be held in higher regard.

The 2nd and 3rd tier prospects is where Carolina has a big edge. They have way more of those guys and theirs are probably better than what the Rangers have to offer.




Yeah if they trade for Miller it needs to come with further dismantling of the core.

Kreider for sure and Mika and Panarin if they're agreeable to it. I don't expect it to all happen over the next 6 weeks but it needs to happen by the summer.

Aho won’t let Carolina trade Kotkaniemi. If J.T comes here Kreider won’t be going anywhere. It would risk another J.T. Personal leave of absence.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Good let Carolina go in and overpay for a 32 year old Miller.
What we should be doing is hope Lindgren and Kreider have a terrific stretch before the TDL and we can maybe get some good value for them (young players/picks).

Thats hilarious and will never happen

They could have good stretches but that likely would mean the team is playing well and Drury will be a buyer. Cant have your cake and eat it too!! Cmon now.

 

[bl02]

Thats hilarious and will never happen

They could have good stretches but that likely would mean the team is playing well and Drury will be a buyer. Cant have your cake and eat it too!! Cmon now.

Yep very true I was gonna mention that if they have a good stretch (I could see Kreider pacing for 30 goals) most likely the Rangers keep them to make a playoff run. Having said that I would rather do that than double down and trade 3 or 4 young players for a 32 year old who probably has 1-2 years left at a high level. Especially since most feel we aren't a serious contender anyway this year.

 

[bl02]

Since we have no 2nd round picks until 2098 and if we stick around the playoff hunt I doubt Drury moves Lindgren/Smith for 2nd/3rd round picks I would advise keeping the first this year.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

One could argue it wasn’t so much all lines, but instead the aforementioned Dmen couldn’t get the puck out of their own end.

I have no problem lumping our defense as part of the problem with the 5v5 troubles.

But then i look and the coaching a GM. We have Jones who can move the puck sitting as a healthy scratch. And we have Miller who cant really pass it out well (can skate decent in neutral zone though), you have Lindgren who can't make a pass for his life, then you just added 2 more defenseman who don't have much offensive skill. Fox is all you have there who can move the puck up the ice from his zone.

 

[NYR Viper]

There are shrewd moves that Drury could make to improve his roster using very late round pick/mediocre prospects for guys with expiring deals but who are overpaid. I've mentioned him before, but a guy like Jeannot from LA may be moved and they may just give him away to create cap space. Would the Wild pretty much give Hartman away to create cap space for an improvement? Would Vancouver pretty much give away Desharnais? Some of these guys have term left but they may fit in to what Drury wants to move forward with.

Basically, he could both buy and sell simultaneously

 

[Guyute]

The Carolina rumors remind me of our reported interest in Guentzel at the trade deadline last year. Probably just a ploy by both Carolina and Vancouver to drive up the price the Rangers pay for Miller.

 

[Rongomania]

I honestly like the package being dangled for Miller, just not Miller. And no 1st. 2nd. Then deal Kreids, Bread & Z-very-bad.

This team as currently constructed is not the team. Cuylle/Berard/Fox/Laf/Miller/Mancini + signings / trade assets from the haul we can throw out there + Perrault.. We can turn this all around next year with some luck and be set moving forward with potentially a f*ck load of assets in this draft.

Blow up the rotten core.

 

[Machinehead]

Olivier's top skill is probably fighting and he's shooting almost 18%.

You guys remember The Fairly Oddparents? Every episode they would say "what could possibly go wrong??!!" and it was very thinly veiled foreshadowing whereby you knew shit was about to go sideways?

That's Olivier.

 

[effen]

There are shrewd moves that Drury could make to improve his roster using very late round pick/mediocre prospects for guys with expiring deals but who are overpaid. I've mentioned him before, but a guy like Jeannot from LA may be moved and they may just give him away to create cap space. Would the Wild pretty much give Hartman away to create cap space for an improvement? Would Vancouver pretty much give away Desharnais? Some of these guys have term left but they may fit in to what Drury wants to move forward with.

Basically, he could both buy and sell simultaneously

I think he's gonna do his best to flush the old core and add a buncha WIMtangible good ol' canadian boy types like you suggested. Simultaneously. It's gonna be a bit incoherent.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The Carolina rumors remind me of our reported interest in Guentzel at the trade deadline last year. Probably just a ploy by both Carolina and Vancouver to drive up the price the Rangers pay for Miller.

I think Carolina actually wants him.

It makes sense.

 

[Profet]

You know who’s top 5 this year in expected goals 5v5. You’d be shocked. We’re one of them. Total 180

What about actual goals 5v5?

 

[McRanger92]

I think Carolina actually wants him.

It makes sense.

Carolina isn’t going to pay that contract nor give the Canucks a better return than the rangers. He does make sense for them though.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Yep very true I was gonna mention that if they have a good stretch (I could see Kreider pacing for 30 goals) most likely the Rangers keep them to make a playoff run. Having said that I would rather do that than double down and trade 3 or 4 young players for a 32 year old who probably has 1-2 years left at a high level. Especially since most feel we aren't a serious contender anyway this year.

I agree. For me it should be either buy or sell, no in between.

Given the talk and the cap space its almost assured Drury will be buying and likely early (soon) despite what many sane fans think.

They've already committed to this core. If they have a shot at making it (which they believe they do) you can bet your ass with the cap space they have he'll be bringing in reinforcements to make them good enough to win what, maybe a round?

And that in itself is the issue. The trade deadline is 6 weeks away, 3/7. But you'd like to commit to an approach much earlier than that.

A smart GM wouldn't put all of his eggs into buying at this point, even if it's to prevent another team from getting the guy he really wants.

A smart GM (in this particular case) would wait until around March 1st (or AT LEAST the four nations tournament) to reassess this club. If they've played themselves into a realistic shot of getting in then buy. If its not looking good, then sell and you could get some really nice value that last week for Kreider, Lindgren and Borgen.

And look. There are only 13 games until then (3/1) - because of scheduling and the Four Nations tournament.

Only 13:

Ottawa
Philly
Avs
Canes
@ Boston
Vegas (B2B)
Boston
Pitt
@ Columbus (B2B)

2 Weeks OFF

@ Buffalo
@ Pitt (B2B)
@ Isles
Toronto

They are currently 4 points out of a spot and play 6 games against teams that are currently tied with or chasing (bold).

The teams over the 13 games have a combined winning percentage of .548. They are basically 50/50 at this point if they will make it. Gotta win the next 2 games because they have the Avs, Canes and Vegas over the following 4.

If they don't get more than 10-12 points in the next 9 games you can kiss your chances goodbye. You could argue they need even more than that.

(For the record, I want Drury to stay patient and then sell)