Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVIII

[GoAwayPanarin]

Seems like we have a lot of people here really confident that Kravtsov is going to make the team out of camp next year, and I'm unclear as to where this confidence is coming from.

I'd trade Buchnevich in the right deal, but I wouldn't be actively shopping him.

I'm not confident that either of them will be in the organization next year.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

there are very few people in our fan base I will ever listen to when it comes to evaluating a defenseman.

There are even fewer people in our fanbase that will listen to you when it comes to evaluating anything and everything associated with hockey.

 

[Raspewtin]

so assuming Fast stays (which we have a bit of leg to stand on at this point for that), we have a full lineup with no need for McKegg/PdG tomf***ery, assuming no movement. Kravtsov depending on world events may very well be on the roster or in consideration for it next year. Gettinger, as i said like 10 pages ago, should be on the roster now
barring a disastrous camp. really don’t get why he wasn’t here already but whatever. assuming no shockers like Barron come through.

i think we need to start molding some skills we need out of our younger B players, like Lemieux and Gauthier. I’ve been screeching that Lemieux should be PKing and I will continue this screeching for the foreseeable future. I want to see if we can mold Goat into a Pouliot
type, barrel in on the forecheck and be a worker bee+ for a player like Panarin or Kakko. I really saw some good stuff this playoffs that made me believe he could be that kind of player and maybe chip in the odd 25-30 points with consistent line mates. I also will continue stomping my feet to get Chytil on the PK and continue taking those minutes away from Ryan Strome

I know there’s been a desire for a banger type and some PKers and I definitely agree but where would they fit barring movement? if you did something like, say trade Buch for whatever (not that i would but it’s a convenient example) and don’t re-sign Fast, i could see plugging in a Sam Bennett (who i like quite a bit) or even a Namestnikov or Girgensons. and tbh unless there’s a can’t miss center upgrade in front of our face id keep strome for now

just some thoughts. Laf sure changes things a lot.

Follow-up to this, I am relatively sure we're trading/getting rid of in some fashion at least 1 forward, and I'm finding it hard to address some needs in a way that doesn't make the team worse.

Lets go with the canned response of Buch goes wherever for D help and we let Fast walk. I don't know how likely either of these are but just for that.

Our needs are likely (a combination of my thoughts and what I think the team considers needs):

-A top 4 LHD but unless we overpay for Dillon that isn't happening without a trade

-A middle 6 C who is good defensively and can PK (I don't see this happening without a trade we're not expecting so it won't be addressed here)

-Two bottom 6 players who can bang, PK, and defend. Or at least two of those. Options IMO that are good include Girgensons, S. Bennett, Clifford, R. Hartman (I've had a bit of a change of heart on him), M. Foligno, Johann Larsson. I also wonder sometimes if Comeau can be had from Dallas retained, esp cause they might be hit pretty hard with an internal cap. I'd also, gulp, ask about Grabner potentially.

-A good LHD but the only one I'd argue for that doesn't require a trade is Patrik Nemeth who has size and is really strong defensively. Would be a great Staal replacement.

Gettinger next year can probably bring an ES defense and PK element to the game so you can potentially cut that need down a little bit. And also like I said I think the team would probably rather give Kravtsov a spot unless he shits himself in camp, especially if someone like Buch is traded.

With all this in mind, as much as I agree on our needs I think I'd rather just roll with what we have and try to mold some of our B younger players into them. I am very adamant that our PK was not only bad but that the wrong personnel were on it (looking at you Strome). Would really like to groom Chytil and Lemieux for PK roles and Gauthier for more of a hard forechecker with size role rather than sign stopgaps. Frankly, I'd try Kreider on the PK too. I would be more open to someone like Girgensons or Larsson if it wasn't a guarantee that Howden would be getting NHL minutes and he needs some serious lessons defending at 4 v 5 (well, everything actually but that's another time).

Idk. Throw Detroit a 3rd for Nemeth and sign one of the players I listed in case Kravtsov and Gettinger have a heart attack in camp. Not crazy about any non-trade changes tbh. I'm not happy per se with how our line-up is but I think there's a lot less change needed than is being discussed.

 

[RickChartraw]

John Davidson brought us some draft luck these last two years. I love watching his last two teams play. So much to be excited for, been watching since 81'. I do wish I knew what Quinn's systems was though, I don't think he will be our cup winning coach.

 

[Chytilmania]

I use science to reach the goal of each human I come across. Its truly that simple. Which is why it isn't mainstream. I've worked with football players who have turned pro and they still request my services. There obviously no one way to achieve a goal. We obviously have different view points. So let's just end it there.


Glad to hear you have improved your physical health. Wish people would take the initiative to do that more.

That's fine....can you send over the studies I'm curious.

 

[Vitto79]

EDM isn't a good trade partner. Klefbom is their only reliable defenseman outside of Larsson. He's their all situations number 1 guy. I also wouldn't pay a premium to get a guy.

I think a deal for a guy like Oliver Kylington for Lemeuix/Gauthier makes sense. While I like the physical tools that those two bring, I really do, I don't know if they are in an environment where they are going to be encouraged to play in a manner that can maximize those their tools.

Kylington was a guy the Rangers could have got as a return on a rental for what 2 years? The physical tools are there, but he's played a reactionary game, don't know if it's nerves or inexperience but he's a guy I could see CGY moving on from, and a guy who may blossom with a change of scenery. The physical gifts are upper echelon with him, and he's played very well in the AHL as a teenager with a grinding lifestyle.

With the Seattle draft coming up you need next year to be a year where a guy can fill in those 5v5 minutes. The Rangers could do well by adding another guy who can fill a positional need.

Calgary has like 5 ufa D men sooooo i think they keep him

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Random question:

Which team/s have we traded with the least, especially lately? When was the last time we traded with a West Coast team (not including Phoenix)? James Sheppard (SJ)? The Hagelin deal with the Ducks?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Random question:

Which team/s have we traded with the least, especially lately? When was the last time we traded with a West Coast team (not including Phoenix)? James Sheppard (SJ)? The Hagelin deal with the Ducks?

Trouba last year lol.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Trouba last year lol.

Well, I meant more like the Cali teams, but yeah. We traded with the Jets pretty often lately

 

[bleedblue94]

I don't think you can say we were wrong on Howden. His chapter is far from finished. If he can be a 52% faceoff, 15 G 25 A role playing forward, that is a good thing and something this team needs. Skjei sure looks like a good defenseman now that he's actually in a system that keeps pucks out of the net. For all his positives, Quinn has sucked creating a team defense system. Hopefully, that changes. If it doesn't, he won't be here long. Hayes was a good player here. He just wanted too much money. He was getting better each year.

15g 25a player is not some random role player. 40pt players don't grow on trees. I think you hope howden becomes a 10 20 player that can me a fixture in an above average bottom 6. Kid has drive, you can't discredit that so I expect he will continue to improve.

If youve watched the car bos series the warts of skjei have absolutely followed him to car, the difference is there are better defensemen there taking most of the minutes and harder matchups. He's still making mistakes all over that ever the commentators have called him out for...

 

[Chytilmania]

Seems like we have a lot of people here really confident that Kravtsov is going to make the team out of camp next year, and I'm unclear as to where this confidence is coming from.

I'd trade Buchnevich in the right deal, but I wouldn't be actively shopping him.

I think we're at a point where the miscommunication messed him up a little and we should just bring him up and see what he's got. I don't see him as the guy who doesn't make the team and works his butt off to get called up. And I sure as hell would rather see him get ice time on the third line instead of someone like Howden. I'd love for Gauthier to take that spot but who knows what Quinn wants to do with him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

There are even fewer people in our fanbase that will listen to you when it comes to evaluating anything and everything associated with hockey.

wenevergetagoodevaluation

 

[Barnaby]

I’d love to see something around Lundqvist at 50% or Georgiev with an add to Toronto for Kapanen.

As great as some of our wingers are, we still lack RW depth, especially if Buch ends up in trade discussions. Kapanen is fast and can PK which would be fine additions to our middle six.

 

[duhmetreE]

@bobbop would AZ move Dvorak in the offseason? With Hayton on the way?

 

[RGY]

I’d love to see something around Lundqvist at 50% or Georgiev with an add to Toronto for Kapanen.

As great as some of our wingers are, we still lack RW depth, especially if Buch ends up in trade discussions. Kapanen is fast and can PK which would be fine additions to our middle six.

Said it all year, Kapanen/Lebanc are my targets to add to the middle 6. Two guys that skate well and can be moved up and down the lineup and still drive possession because they just keep going, great motor, and dont shy away from the play.

If you can package one of Buch/Strome + Chytil + something else for premium center and then add in Kapanen/Lebanc you become significantly better. I think Kapanen can play RW, dont know about Lebanc.

Kreider-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-XXX-Buch/Strome
Lafreniere-XXX-Kapanen/Lebanc
Lemmy-Howden-Gauthier
DiGiuseppe

That 3rd line center spot is in question. But you could probably find a value based Center vet in free agency. But you need someone competent to play with Laf.

 

[gravey9]

Follow-up to this, I am relatively sure we're trading/getting rid of in some fashion at least 1 forward, and I'm finding it hard to address some needs in a way that doesn't make the team worse.

Lets go with the canned response of Buch goes wherever for D help and we let Fast walk. I don't know how likely either of these are but just for that.

Our needs are likely (a combination of my thoughts and what I think the team considers needs):

-A top 4 LHD but unless we overpay for Dillon that isn't happening without a trade

-A middle 6 C who is good defensively and can PK (I don't see this happening without a trade we're not expecting so it won't be addressed here)

-Two bottom 6 players who can bang, PK, and defend. Or at least two of those. Options IMO that are good include Girgensons, S. Bennett, Clifford, R. Hartman (I've had a bit of a change of heart on him), M. Foligno, Johann Larsson. I also wonder sometimes if Comeau can be had from Dallas retained, esp cause they might be hit pretty hard with an internal cap. I'd also, gulp, ask about Grabner potentially.

-A good LHD but the only one I'd argue for that doesn't require a trade is Patrik Nemeth who has size and is really strong defensively. Would be a great Staal replacement.

Gettinger next year can probably bring an ES defense and PK element to the game so you can potentially cut that need down a little bit. And also like I said I think the team would probably rather give Kravtsov a spot unless he shits himself in camp, especially if someone like Buch is traded.

With all this in mind, as much as I agree on our needs I think I'd rather just roll with what we have and try to mold some of our B younger players into them. I am very adamant that our PK was not only bad but that the wrong personnel were on it (looking at you Strome). Would really like to groom Chytil and Lemieux for PK roles and Gauthier for more of a hard forechecker with size role rather than sign stopgaps. Frankly, I'd try Kreider on the PK too. I would be more open to someone like Girgensons or Larsson if it wasn't a guarantee that Howden would be getting NHL minutes and he needs some serious lessons defending at 4 v 5 (well, everything actually but that's another time).

Idk. Throw Detroit a 3rd for Nemeth and sign one of the players I listed in case Kravtsov and Gettinger have a heart attack in camp. Not crazy about any non-trade changes tbh. I'm not happy per se with how our line-up is but I think there's a lot less change needed than is being discussed.

I like this analysis, but I feel like the Rangers should not be looking to solve all of the holes in their lineup right now. I think they're not done building the core. Esp in the cap era, you need to spend most of your money on top 6 F, top 3-4 D, #1 G. And you need to know how much you're spending on those positions, so you can then go about addressing bottom 6, 3rd pair and backup.

Until you've got that totally locked in, you need to be patient. Use your bottom 6 as a development lines for any younger forwards that could end up in top 6 core.

Right now, this is the current identified core: Zib, Panarin, CK. God-willing Kakko and Laf. Everyone else up front is either a stopgap or a kid who hasn't proven they're a core piece YET.

Top 4D is still quite tricky. Trouba. Fox. TDA is 50/50. Everyone else is unproven or stopgap. Miller? Lundkvist? Robertson?

#1G seems solved.

My guess is, they will focus on 2c first to round out top6 core. And depending on the assets it takes to get that, they will approach other positions of need with stopgaps. If they fail on a big 2C upgrade this summer, they'll turn focus to another top 4 LD. Not sure if that'll be a stopgap like Edmundson or a vet like Larsson or Klefbom that is likely a second-pair option in 2 years.

I think they will likely continue to use their bottom 6 and 3rd pairing for development. Once the core is solved, they will approach the rest of the roster. Depending on how close we are to contention, they will turn more towards vets. More prospects will just start cooking longer in the minors/overseas/juniors.

Point is this summer's #1 priority is a 2c and a stabilizing force on D for next 2-3 years.

 

[bobbop]

@bobbop would AZ move Dvorak in the offseason? With Hayton on the way?

Nope. Hayton has been a little slower developing than they had hoped and he still has two years on his ELC. Dvorak is their de facto number one center right now on a good contract. The only way I could see them moving Dvorak is if he was part of a bigger deal for a better center. Their forward group is weak. Long term, Dvorak probably slots in as a middle six center.

 

[aufheben]

I’d love to see something around Lundqvist at 50% or Georgiev with an add to Toronto for Kapanen.

As great as some of our wingers are, we still lack RW depth, especially if Buch ends up in trade discussions. Kapanen is fast and can PK which would be fine additions to our middle six.

We lack LW depth too. Our best LW under the age of like 28 is Brendan Lemieux. Have we even drafted a LW in the last 3 drafts?

 

[Boris Zubov]

I wouldn't sign Dillion. He'll make too much and doesn't really bring what we need.

Trouba needs a partner who can move, move a puck as well as cover his own end. A premium center is rarely available at the TDL and the times you see one available, its usually for a rental. I also don't think a premium center is necessary or even logical at this point. A strong, multi dimensional #2 ala Cirelli or Reinhart is a better fit.

I wonder if there is something that can be put together around DeAngelo and another piece for Reinhart and C.Miller (who despite his warts, is still a pretty good player and would look good in a 3rd pair role.)

Even in a 3rd pair role, Colin Miller would be the new whipping boy around here. Other than shooting the puck, he doesn't do anything well consistently. His hockey sense is below average & he loses confidence in himself quite frequently. He's the guy who shows flashes in one game & you think the light has turned on, but then he follows that up with 5 bad games in a row.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

We lack LW depth too. Our best LW under the age of like 28 is Brendan Lemieux. Have we even drafted a LW in the last 3 drafts?

............
..........
.......


Wait, are you assuming we're not drafting Lafreniere?

 

[Barnaby]

We lack LW depth too. Our best LW under the age of like 28 is Brendan Lemieux. Have we even drafted a LW in the last 3 drafts?

Im not drafting wings based on depth..

Panarin-Lafreniere-Kreider-Lemieux is prob the spot we are loaded on along with RD

 

[duhmetreE]

The biggest thing from these kids is it would be nice to get a vet to help them along. A Defensive Center to take them under their wing and show them the ways..

A savvy vet is desperately needed at Center imo.

 

[aufheben]

............
..........
.......


Wait, are you assuming we're not drafting Lafreniere?

I was just adding to his post because everyone acts like we’re only missing a center, but like he said we’re missing depth at other positions too.

 

[Kravtsov420]

Does anyone see any possibility of moving one of the wingers to center ? I think a lot of our wingers play like centers. So I wouldn’t be against moving someone to center to develop that way and see what we have. I’m primarily looking at Kravtsov. He players like a center and he’s very adept at takeaways. I dream of him developing into a two way center that focuses on takeaways with x-factor skill.

 

[duhmetreE]

We lack LW depth too. Our best LW under the age of like 28 is Brendan Lemieux. Have we even drafted a LW in the last 3 drafts?

how many LW spots are we trying to fill?

Isn't Barron LW? Gettinger?

Panarin-Lafreniere-Kreider-Lemieux how much more LW's do we need? Our Top9 LW is locked for the next 6 years