Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVIII

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Tell me this is a joke.

Yes, it is. It's literally a 1-for-1 reference to the Schneider-Horvat trade.

 

[Rangers394]

So you think Chytil and Howden should be untouchable ?

Again, who are you trading them for? If the right deal comes along, nobody should be untouchable but i want to know who you're trading them for that is so much better?

 

[Rangers394]

Yes, it is. It's literally a 1-for-1 reference to the Schneider-Horvat trade.

That trade isn't trashed enough. Awful trade for the Devils.

 

[RiffyNYR61]

So you think Chytil and Howden should be untouchable ?

you listen on all players. But to say “neither has shown enough or excels at anything” at their age is just ridiculous and eye-rollingly bad in terms of player development.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

That trade isn't trashed enough. Awful trade for the Devils.

 

[Savant]

Again, who are you trading them for? If the right deal comes along, nobody should be untouchable but i want to know who you're trading them for that is so much better?

I mean if you can package either with like the Carolina pick for a better player I think you have to. I’m not advocating just giving them away, but again, there is no evidence that they can be effective role players if they aren’t in the top six. Howden at best probably a decent 4C but what does he do? Chytil is a different case where if the Rangers don’t think he is a center, he makes sense to move while another team feels there is upside there. There are only 12 forwards playing a night. You need to upgrade the PK somehow. Howden is under 50% on faceoffs. Chytil is under 40% on faceoffs. Neither are great defenders and neither look like they have ton of scoring upside; which is harsh on Chytil especially but he has had chances. These are things the team has to improve.

 

[Rangers394]

Explain how it was good.

 

[Savant]

you listen on all players. But to say “neither has shown enough or excels at anything” at their age is just ridiculous and eye-rollingly bad in terms of player development.

They haven’t. What is the tool that is going to keep Howden in the NHL? What is the tool that is going to keep Chytil in the NHL? What do they do better than a replacement level NHL player?

 

[Rangers394]

I mean if you can package either with like the Carolina pick for a better player I think you have to. I’m not advocating just giving them away, but again, there is no evidence that they can be effective role players if they aren’t in the top six. Howden at best probably a decent 4C but what does he do? Chytil is a different case where if the Rangers don’t think he is a center, he makes sense to move while another team feels there is upside there. There are only 12 forwards playing a night. You need to upgrade the PK somehow. Howden is under 50% on faceoffs. Chytil is under 40% on faceoffs. Neither are great defenders and neither look like they have ton of scoring upside; which is harsh on Chytil especially but he has had chances. These are things the team has to improve.

But these guys are still very young, trading them away is pretty pointless unless you get a better playe in return but who is that player is the question? Howden i'm kind of 50/50 about but Chytil is a guy i rather hold onto right now. I just don't see a trade that will get is this better player for those guys

 

[Rangers394]

They haven’t. What is the tool that is going to keep Howden in the NHL? What is the tool that is going to keep Chytil in the NHL? What do they do better than a replacement level NHL player?

But sometimes it takes awhile to develop those tools. You talk about them like they are 30 years old. You need to have patience and not make stupid moves just because we won 1st overall

 

[Savant]

But these guys are still very young, trading them away is pretty pointless unless you get a better playe in return but who is that player is the question? Howden i'm kind of 50/50 about but Chytil is a guy i rather hold onto right now. I just don't see a trade that will get is this better player for those guys

Not 1v1 but if you are trying to make a package for a rebuilding team for that center upgrade or that Trouba partner then no one should be upset about them being in a deal. Again - what do they do well? What is their special tool? Neither has gone over 25 points. They don’t play special teams. They don’t win faceoffs. They are lousy defensive players. What is their role? Let someone else try to figure it out.

 

[Savant]

But sometimes it takes awhile to develop those tools. You talk about them like they are 30 years old. You need to have patience and not make stupid moves just because we won 1st overall

There needs to be a foundation. What is their foundational tool that keeps them relevant in the NHL? This isn’t a hard question, either they have it or they don’t. They are just two guys on ice skates right now. Being young isn’t a tool.

 

[Rangers394]

Not 1v1 but if you are trying to make a package for a rebuilding team for that center upgrade or that Trouba partner then no one should be upset about them being in a deal. Again - what do they do well? What is their special tool? Neither has gone over 25 points. They don’t play special teams. They don’t win faceoffs. They are lousy defensive players. What is their role? Let someone else try to figure it out.

Who are you trading them for? If they aren't good, why would any other team trade for them?

Nobody is upset about anything. Trading young kids on the team who are still developing is just a dumb idea. And you don't even have a realistic trade target

 

[Rangers394]

There needs to be a foundation. What is their foundational tool that keeps them relevant in the NHL? This isn’t a hard question, either they have it or they don’t. They are just two guys on ice skates right now. Being young isn’t a tool.

So a team who put McKegg and Digiuseppe on the ice in a playoff series is all of a sudden in a rush to win?

 

[Avery16]

Boyle really was hated. His first couple of seasons were a rough go. I could very much see Howden taking a similar route

I’m still not crazy about him. Inflated self-opinion, wouldn’t play up to his size. Safe, but hesitant and not a game-changer in the way he could have played if he had that attitude.

 

[pld459666]

Explain how it was good.

Agreed.

Turned out to be a very bad trade for NJD.

 

[Savant]

So a team who put McKegg and Digiuseppe on the ice in a playoff series is all of a sudden in a rush to win?

Yes. They need to be upgraded too. The Rangers aren’t rebuilding anymore.

Who are you trading them for? If they aren't good, why would any other team trade for them?

Nobody is upset about anything. Trading young kids on the team who are still developing is just a dumb idea. And you don't even have a realistic trade target

It’s due diligence to see what you can get. Chytil/Howden + Carolina 1st is not a bad place to start for a rebuilding team on an offer. Find the person who sees what I don’t, and go from there. I would definitely look at a team like Vegas who has tough cap decisions coming up. Same with St. Louis. Dallas and Calgary might have to make tough decisions. And these are just the western teams.

still have not seen anyone tell me what Chytil and Howden are good at yet.

 

[Vitto79]

Brett Howden has proven time and time again that not only is he awful, but that all of the numbers point to him not even being an NHL caliber forward. Not sure how people have a high bit of optimism for this guy to be a good middle 6 defensive forward when all of his metrics say he is terrible defensively, and is constantly hemmed in his own end, which also drags his linemates down constantly as a result of his lacking ability on both ends of the ice.

NYR management clearly doesn’t agree as they pump his tires all the time .

Howden , Lemieux, Gauthier are all on the bubble of being protected in expansion so this year will affect the teams decision on who’s protected if any

Zib, Kreider, Buch, Panarin, Chytil, Strome? Although we are going to see a turnover w some names

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Agreed.

Turned out to be a very bad trade for NJD.

I don't think so. Schneider was great for NJ for many years.

They traded the 9th overall pick for him. Even assuming they did take Horvat and developed him the same way Vancouver did, does he really move the needle for that awful team, with zero talent surrounding him?

Not saying it was an amazing trade but its not some kind of disaster.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I dont think Buch will be back next year.

I figure they will try to improve the LD situation and roll with Strome for a year. Not the end of the world, but certainly not ideal.

 

[pld459666]

would anyone be mad at this??

CK - MZ - PB
AP - RS - VK
AL - FC - KK
BL - LA - JG

For that 4th line, you can swap in either of Howden or Barron.

I like the idea of that kid line being a bit of a sheltered unit and allowing them to grow together and eventually take over the 2nd line.

That could be the teams 1st line for 10+ years.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't think so. Schneider was great for NJ for many years.

They traded the 9th overall pick for him. Even assuming they did take Horvat and developed him the same way Vancouver did, does he really move the needle for that awful team, with zero talent surrounding him?

Not saying it was an amazing trade but its not some kind of disaster.

I don't think I'd qualify 3 seasons (one of which was in a platoon situation) as "many."

I thought it was an overpayment at the time as Schneider had never really started more than 30 games in a season. We've seen plenty of back ups put up great numbers, get a chance to start and then perform like a back up. He had 2 full seasons of performing like an actual #1. Now we have the gift of hindsight but would you trade a 9OA for that? I wouldn't

Its not Forsberg for Erat, Hall for Larsson or even Zibanejad for Brassard bad, but it was a bad trade then which looks worse now.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I dont think Buch will be back next year.

I figure they will try to improve the LD situation and roll with Strome for a year. Not the end of the world, but certainly not ideal.

Who do you think the Rangers could target, who could be had for Buchnevich? Or a package containing Buchnevich?

 

[pld459666]

I don't think so. Schneider was great for NJ for many years.

They traded the 9th overall pick for him. Even assuming they did take Horvat and developed him the same way Vancouver did, does he really move the needle for that awful team, with zero talent surrounding him?

Not saying it was an amazing trade but its not some kind of disaster.

Cory has been a back up level goalie since 2016-17, while Horvat has another 10 years in the league.

That trade was terrible the moment it was made and looked worse three short seasons later.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Cory has been a back up level goalie since 2016-17, while Horvat has another 10 years in the league.

That trade was terrible the moment it was made and looked worse three short seasons later.

idk if you remember back to 2013 but people were praising the shit out of that trade for NJ and really upset that the Devils found their Brodeur successor right away. We don't even know that the Devils would have taken Horvat anyway if they had kept that pick.