Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVIII

[Leetch3]

I think we should turn Georgiev into our version of Bo Horvat like vancouver did for schneider...sounds like a good idea to me lol

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You can't compare stat sheets when the variables change from year to year. His ice time went down because we signed a guy named Panarin who takes a lot of ice time, anyone not in the top 6 felt that. His actual stats likely suffered due to that too. With his faceoffs, im not sure if you noticed but he was taking important draws even over Zibanajad at times so while his percentage went down his faceoff opponents were likely better than the previous year. Stats are a nice tool but they do not tell a whole story. The coach,Gm and president all like where his game is headed and for now i have to agree.

I don't know how Panarin impacted his ice time seeing as how they play different positions. His FO% was virtually the same, a slight dip but nothing crazy, it was actually better than I expected it to be. He got less ice time because Quinn had him playing on the 4th line for parts of the season.

His play was visibly worse than it was last year, and he had a long stretch last season where he wasn't any good. Our system doesn't help our players (and if it doesn't change, Quinn is going to be out of here soon. Gorts may stand for that shit, JD won't) but they all play under the same one, he looked/performed worse than almost everyone in it.

The Coach, President and GM all think that Marc Staal still has positive value but that doesn't mean that they're right. Howden got praised for his post season play but the numbers indicate that the team got their asses handed to them when he was on the ice. 3 games isn't a huge sample size, but it was more of a continuation of what we saw during the season. Maybe he didn't play/look as listless as some of the other guys (really, our top guys) but that doesn't mean that he was good.

... and he was still being double shifted in an elimination game.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Barry Trotz might be the best head coach in the NHL. Him or Torts.

 

[Fitzy]

Barry Trotz might be the best head coach in the NHL. Him or Torts.

Despite his coaching several major rivals, I'm partial to Laviolette. I like Torts, but that USA world cup of hockey squad choice was an absolute doozy.

 

[cwede]

I am a keep Georgie guy,
but reminding myself that Vancouver got the Horvat pick
in a 1-for-1goalie trade

 

[duhmetreE]

This is why we don't judge people based off of raw stats.

And no one has said that Chytil doesn't have any weaknesses. He's much better than Howden though, and that isn't really debatable.

In what way? Physically? sure. Mentally, Howden is ahead.

If Chytl was given as much responsibility as Howden, his numbers would be worse. This isn't a vacuum, we have to be somewhat objective. They both have their talents/strengths. They both have their flaws. They are being used in different ways and are different players.

Howden had a really strong first 2 months of his NHL career then hit a wall, arguably when given a lot more responsibility. Chytil had a good month playing with Buch and Kreider, then did nothing. They both had their moments.

When Howden physically matures he will be lightyears better than what he currently is IMO. I see him as a good defensive middle6 center.

Chytil is physically gifted but has questionable IQ/hockey sense, suspect playmaking and puck handling. I still see him as a winger. I hope he proves me wrong but I have seen little to no evidence of that.

I'm not saying one is better than the other... IMO they both are a lot closer than this place puts off.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Despite his coaching several major rivals, I'm partial to Laviolette. I like Torts, but that USA world cup of hockey squad choice was an absolute doozy.

Well, he's available...

 

[Fvital92]

Howden is a legitimately strong skater. Of course everyone want to see more all over. But it takes time to develop. A lot of areas that can improve. Just have the game slow down a little for you, more time to process things. Find out what works and what don’t.

Chytil has his own issues. He is good in the situations were the puck is moved up ice N-S along the boards and a winger can get it to him at center ice after he has built up speed. What he really can improve a ton at is supporting his wingers more and getting them the puck. Also his game down low. But he is also so young, can definitely improve a lot. But it does feel like he has stopped developing a bit in those high octane offensive areas. His game is a lot about driving the puck N-S, and plays in which he open up things for his teammates have been few and far between. Right now I see him as a center that is a good option for those bigger PF wingers, like Gauthier. But wingers like Kakko and Laf are the completely opposite. They thrive with the center that can draw attention and then get the puck to then.

But at the same time, just look at Zib. Chytil is the age Zib was THREE years before coming to NY. Time is certainly Chytils side. No doubt.

I compares Chytil tô Zib's first 3 years, he hás like 5 points less in that span.
Comparing Chytil to Howden should bê a ban sentence in HFNYR boards

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

In what way? Physically? sure. Mentally, Howden is ahead.

If Chytl was given as much responsibility as Howden, his numbers would be worse. This isn't a vacuum, we have to be somewhat objective. They both have their talents/strengths. They both have their flaws. They are being used in different ways and are different players.

Howden had a really strong first 2 months of his NHL career then hit a wall, arguably when given a lot more responsibility. Chytil had a good month playing with Buch and Kreider, then did nothing. They both had their moments.

When Howden physically matures he will be lightyears better than what he currently is IMO. I see him as a good defensive middle6 center.

Chytil is physically gifted but has questionable IQ/hockey sense, suspect playmaking and puck handling. I still see him as a winger. I hope he proves me wrong but I have seen little to no evidence of that.

I'm not saying one is better than the other... IMO they both are a lot closer than this place puts off.

He's ahead both physically and mentally. For all this talk about Howden being a great defensive forward one day, Chytil, the younger player, is already way ahead of him there. I don't know how much extra responsibility Howden is being expected to carry other than the PK. Chytil averaged almost 2 minutes more per game than Howden this season.

All of the negatives you applied to Chytil apply even more so to Howden. They're only close if you look at surface level stats, a deeper dive into them pretty much obliterates what you're suggesting.

 

[Fvital92]

HFNYR board whipping players in the 6 years I've been gere, including the lurking years, Girardi, Staal, Vesey, Hayes, Howden and Skjei...
The only one we were wrong about is Hayes. Maybe Miller If we consider only this year, but he was really 50-50 here.

 

[rangers1314]

HFNYR board whipping players in the 6 years I've been gere, including the lurking years, Girardi, Staal, Vesey, Hayes, Howden and Skjei...
The only one we were wrong about is Hayes. Maybe Miller If we consider only this year, but he was really 50-50 here.

I wouldn’t say people here were “wrong” about Hayes...it was more about paying him what he was looking for.

 

[Fvital92]

I wouldn’t say people here were “wrong” about Hayes...it was more about paying him what he was looking for.

In his first 2 years here he was getting flamed hard here. People were starting tô like him in the 2nd half of the season before his last one here.

Anyway, usually players get the short end of the stick here rightfully so.

 

[rangers1314]

In his first 2 years here he was getting flamed hard here. People were starting tô like him in the 2nd half of the season before his last one here.

Anyway, usually players get the short end of the stick here rightfully so.

He deserved to get flamed his 2nd year. He showed up wildly out of shape to camp.

He put up 45 pts as a rookie. People here were thrilled with him, he was found money. The only debate about him was if he was a C or W because he was awful at face offs.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

HFNYR board whipping players in the 6 years I've been gere, including the lurking years, Girardi, Staal, Vesey, Hayes, Howden and Skjei...
The only one we were wrong about is Hayes. Maybe Miller If we consider only this year, but he was really 50-50 here.

Pionk

he was a whipping boy (who still sucks)

 

[Fvital92]

Pionk

he was a whipping boy (who still sucks)

You're right,t forgot him. Which is good for my mental health, I guess. Lol

 

[Savant]

I think we should turn Georgiev into our version of Bo Horvat like vancouver did for schneider...sounds like a good idea to me lol

That trade doesn’t get talked enough about as one of the worst trades in modern NHL history.

 

[Savant]

Honestly not attached to either Chytil or Howden. If other teams are asking, I am listening. Neither has shown enough and neither excel at anything. If someone think they can unlock some upside on Chytil more power to them. Neither should be untouchable. Rangers need role players that can actually play roles.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Been super busy with work but have read this boards and here's my general state of opinions/affairs.

1. Let's not overthink the lottery win. Draft Lafreniere. No debate. Be happy. Players will actually want to come here and play with him/Kaako/Panarin. Enjoy this gang and to paraphrase Eddie Murphy "Smile, have a can of Pepsi, and shut the %@! up."

2. They're not getting a first for Georgiev so stick with him and see what he turns into for the next 1-2 years. They can find a Horvat or Horvat lite (was supposed to be Anderson) if they draft other positions besides DMen. Which brings me to......

3. Why, why ,why does everyone want to acquire another LHD for next year? No, just no. My logic: you still have Staal and Smith under contract and even though the later can play 13thF-7D, you also have K. Miller, Robertson, Hajek, and most likely Reunnenan and they all need places to play. At least one if not two will spend time on the big squad next year. Let one audition to play with Trouba. Next season may be all goofed up with covid anyways and less than 82 games so not the time to start going all in. Plus lets not overthink expansion and just get through it in one piece. For all the crap the Rangers get and how we have to hear about Jessiman/McLirath all the time, Rangers are what like 4 for 4 in expansion draft problems.

4. I agree Buch should be moved and for the old Mike Keenan "not gritty enough, not enough of a battler when the going gets tough" reason but NOT for another left D. A center yes. But maybe that can wait until after next season and expansion again. And people were comparing Buch to Tony Amonte? I'm going to paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen from the VP debate had had with Dan Quayle in 1988 "I watched Tony Amonte and my friends at HFBoards, Pavel Buchnevich is no Tony Amonte."

5. Sign Strome for one more year at a modest raise and then trade him at the deadline or let him walk.

6. To sum up my Friday evening diatribe; next year or more like four months from now with covid concerns still possible, three to four bad contracts (Staal/Smith/Lundqvist if not bought out/Shattenkirk buyout climax), and a coach who may be in his final season if his team doesn't improve is not the time to go all in. Get through next year, see how some of these young players grow, bring in a free agent or two (Cup Winners!), and get through expansion. Then start bringing in pieces to win.

 

[Richard Banger]

There's a difference between science and results in the gym. I've trained and learned from Ben Prentiss and colleagues of his level. Way different than your typical S&C coach. Send me studies I would love to see. You have to be aware of how they are conducted.

I will use myself as anecdotal evidence. At age 31 I sit anywhere from 204-208. I am MUCH faster now than when I played football and baseball at 185, 190 and 195 from mid 20s to 30.
I trained a long jumper/triple jumper last year who was about 150 lbs...weight didn't change but he got way leaner (and he was lean already) MUCH stronger. Able to squat 2x body weight ATG. He made it to states while PRing every competition leading up to it and lost to guys double his size. They had much more power and a bigger engine. You cannot get faster by getting weaker and smaller, which is what you are saying. Getting stronger in the weight room is how you get faster, not aerobic exercise or ladder drills.
I have a few younger kids I train for hockey even just 1x a week weight training they got bigger and leaner and everyone started noticing them on the ice whether it was skating faster or hitting guys.

Check out Gary Roberts' story and how he revived his career. He got stronger. Look at Olympic sprinters.

You have to ask yourself...do these guys(scientists/coaches) actually produce measurable results or do they hide behind the "science."

I use science to reach the goal of each human I come across. Its truly that simple. Which is why it isn't mainstream. I've worked with football players who have turned pro and they still request my services. There obviously no one way to achieve a goal. We obviously have different view points. So let's just end it there.


Glad to hear you have improved your physical health. Wish people would take the initiative to do that more.

 

[Fitzy]

Well, he's available...

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Brett Howden has proven time and time again that not only is he awful, but that all of the numbers point to him not even being an NHL caliber forward. Not sure how people have a high bit of optimism for this guy to be a good middle 6 defensive forward when all of his metrics say he is terrible defensively, and is constantly hemmed in his own end, which also drags his linemates down constantly as a result of his lacking ability on both ends of the ice.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Any chance Strome gets moved this off-season? What's your teams greatest need?

 

[aufheben]

Any chance Strome gets moved this off-season? What's your teams greatest need?

Two-way C, LD. Missing a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Any chance Strome gets moved this off-season? What's your teams greatest need?

It's possible but unless there's an upgrade or he's asking for an astronomical amount of money he's probably going to stay.

 

[Savant]

Any chance Strome gets moved this off-season? What's your teams greatest need?

In no particular order.

LHD to play with Trouba; more puck mover than stay at home. Secondary scoring; preferably at C. PK help; preferably at C. Faceoff help; preferably at C.

Strome isn’t untouchable, but hard to see him moving. Would prefer keep Strome one more year and finding help in the bottom six