Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVIII

[Avery16]

I am sure Zach Kassian will garner some interest around the league as a UFA. But if he doesn’t I definitely wouldn’t mind bringing him to camp.

Trying to imagine a line combo here he wouldn't drag down

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

People defend Chytil with advanced stats. There is a chasm of difference there between him and Howden.

Having said that, I still think Howden has the potential to be a Ranger for a long time, even if he only becomes a legitimately good 4th liner—maybe even a 3rd liner—if lots of things go right. That’s no diss, we’ve seen vividly this season how important it can be to have players in your bottom-6 who are actually good.

Would legit not surprise me if Howden is still on this roster in 5 years.

Howden is really bad at all of the things that a bottom six/checker needs to be good at though.

He murders rush opportunities because he can't handle a simple pass or make one. He loses board battles on the regular, always skates away from forecheck opportunities, hes out of position more often than Staal is, arguably has the worst balance of any of our skaters, etc.

I don't care so much about his production, that is what it is. It's all the other stuff where he's deep in the red that bothers me. Its not just 1 or 2 things, its a bunch of things and I thought he regressed from his rookie season which wasn't great either.

Most people are annoyed that almost every other player gets their minutes reduced/benched/scratched for much less egregious things. He has gotten a Marc Staal esque free pass.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Hypothetically, if Lias has a good season in Sweden...wouldn’t the Swedish season end while the the 20-21 NHL season is still on? Would Lias be eligible to join the Rangers at that point?

He's shown nothing to suggest that he has any interest in playing for us again.

 

[CommaSynapse]

I'd love to get Gavrikov from CBJ. I really like his game, but I don't think they'd move him.

 

[DutchShamrock]

This is becoming the Strome Derangement Syndrome.

Chytil has shown NOTHING that indicated he can handle the role. And Andersson? Really?

Imagine Mike Knuble was drafted by Montreal in the 1st. After an underwhelming start, we get him in a trade. Then we send him to Boston for Rob Dimao. And he finds chemistry with Joe Thornton and Glen Murray where he far outperforms the expectations. And Boston fans run him out of town because he played great with 1st liners and he denied PJ Axelson his rightful place on Thornton's line.

No, they enjoyed the gift that fell in their lap and cheered on a guy playing great for their favorite team. They didn't even have the added bonus of this guy being a 1st round pick from their bitter rival.

 

[aufheben]

Howden is really bad at all of the things that a bottom six/checker needs to be good at though.

He murders rush opportunities because he can't handle a simple pass or make one. He loses board battles on the regular, always skates away from forecheck opportunities, hes out of position more often than Staal is, arguably has the worst balance of any of our skaters, etc.

I don't care so much about his production, that is what it is. It's all the other stuff where he's deep in the red that bothers me. Its not just 1 or 2 things, its a bunch of things and I thought he regressed from his rookie season which wasn't great either.

Most people are annoyed that almost every other player gets their minutes reduced/benched/scratched for much less egregious things. He has gotten a Marc Staal esque free pass.

I know he’s not, but he has some size, a little bit of skill, busts his ass, and apparently is loved by coaches. I don’t think it’s crazy that he could become like a solid 4th liner wing down the road. I mean he’s only 22.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I know he’s not, but he has some size, a little bit of skill, busts his ass, and apparently is loved by coaches. I don’t think it’s crazy that he could become like a solid 4th liner wing down the road.

Yeah but he needs massive improvements in a ton of areas to really be effective in that role.

It's the sizable step backwards he took this year with out any repercussions that is worrisome. Hes a guy who could have really been helped by AHL time. Too late for that now though I suppose.

 

[aufheben]

Yeah but he needs massive improvements in a ton of areas to really be effective in that role.

It's the sizable step backwards he took this year with out any repercussions that is worrisome. Hes a guy who could have really been helped by AHL time. Too late for that now though I suppose.

It’s just a feeling I have, really.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It’s just a feeling I have, really.

I hope you're right.

I'll settle for any improvements really since like you, I don't think hes going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Levitate]

Yeah but he needs massive improvements in a ton of areas to really be effective in that role.

It's the sizable step backwards he took this year with out any repercussions that is worrisome. Hes a guy who could have really been helped by AHL time. Too late for that now though I suppose.

Yeah that's my problem with Howden at this point...he's young but he didn't really take any steps forward this year and now has approximately 2 NHL seasons under his belt. If he's going to be anything, even a reliable fourth liner, he has to start showing some improvement in his game in practically every area.

He COULD do that...he has tools, but so far something is missing and I didn't see him finding that last season compared to the season before.

e: Not sure if it was Edge giving his opinion or some tidbits he's heard but I think he did mention something along the lines of the coaches/management like Howden and his tools and how he works but if he doesn't start putting it together that "liking him" won't save him from losing a roster spot down the road

 

[DutchShamrock]

People defend Chytil with advanced stats. There is a chasm of difference there between him and Howden.

Having said that, I still think Howden has the potential to be a Ranger for a long time, even if he only becomes a legitimately good 4th liner—maybe even a 3rd liner—if lots of things go right. That’s no diss, we’ve seen vividly this season how important it can be to have players in your bottom-6 who are actually good.

Would legit not surprise me if Howden is still on this roster in 5 years.

This is a very fair and well thought out assessment. I agree with @duhmetreE though in that you cannot praise Howden. And criticizing Chytil will draw equally strong responses. Chytil gets a pass because he is 20 but Howden is only 18 months older. Just be consistent, folks.

And fine, we are a bunch of amateur GMs. We have terrible opinions of players steeped in bias. But you get professional after professional consistently praising a whipping boy and people around here dismiss their more than qualified opinions. But no one has ever put their pitchfork away so it's a lost cause.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

HE IS THE LAW

Law-freniere

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeah that's my problem with Howden at this point...he's young but he didn't really take any steps forward this year and now has approximately 2 NHL seasons under his belt. If he's going to be anything, even a reliable fourth liner, he has to start showing some improvement in his game in practically every area.

He COULD do that...he has tools, but so far something is missing and I didn't see him finding that last season compared to the season before.

e: Not sure if it was Edge giving his opinion or some tidbits he's heard but I think he did mention something along the lines of the coaches/management like Howden and his tools and how he works but if he doesn't start putting it together that "liking him" won't save him from losing a roster spot down the road

I thought he gassed out in his rookie year since after he came back after his knee (it was knee right?) injury he looked better. This year he scored opening night and then it was pretty much downhill after that.

It's not too late and he wouldn't be the first person to really struggle before figuring it out to some extent, but the fact that he has been rewarded despite struggling so hard is worrisome. He's drawn praise for his playoff performance and its like, did the coaches/FO even watch the playoffs?

 

[NYR Viper]

Sophomore slumps happen and Howden had games where he looked like a solid 2-way player. I’d give him another year. I really think we are seeing a player who should have spent a minimum of 1 full season in the AHL. That’s on the Rangers

 

[broadwayblue]

Game has changed yet should the Rangers find somebody who can police Laf and company?

It's a good question. I know they want to have the team be harder to play against in general, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are looking to bring in heavyweights. But there are going to be a lot of kids on this team...and Panarin and Mika aren't exactly enforcers. I wouldn't be surprised if they add a bit more jam to the lineup.

 

[gravey9]

Imagine Mike Knuble was drafted by Montreal in the 1st. After an underwhelming start, we get him in a trade. Then we send him to Boston for Rob Dimao. And he finds chemistry with Joe Thornton and Glen Murray where he far outperforms the expectations. And Boston fans run him out of town because he played great with 1st liners and he denied PJ Axelson his rightful place on Thornton's line.

No, they enjoyed the gift that fell in their lap and cheered on a guy playing great for their favorite team. They didn't even have the added bonus of this guy being a 1st round pick from their bitter rival.

Well, we chased him out too. He played above expectations here. I was always bummed we let him go. He was a big body with decent wheels and a decent scoring touch. I think he was like 25 goal scorer for a few years.

 

[gravey9]

One other bit of optimism. I think the Canes are the better team in their series with the Bruins. Which, while it might be bad for our other 1st round draft pick, it does make me feel better how badly we were dismantled. Canes combo of size and speed is absolutely smothering. And if they get the lead it's really hard to come back on them.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Howden has continued to improve no matter how much people wanna hate on him. From a scouting viewpoint he has lots to like at his age. People just gotta stop thinking every young player is gonna come into the league and pull a Selanne. Howden's game throughout his career has been more of a power forward, his physical attributes don't allow him to do that at an nhl level, it happens with most players of his style. He needs to get stronger and with strength he can then do the things that made him successful before he got to the nhl.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

One other bit of optimism. I think the Canes are the better team in their series with the Bruins. Which, while it might be bad for our other 1st round draft pick, it does make me feel better how badly we were dismantled. Canes combo of size and speed is absolutely smothering. And if they get the lead it's really hard to come back on them.

Bruins have looked like ass since they arrived in the bubble.

 

[aufheben]

Howden has continued to improve no matter how much people wanna hate on him. From a scouting viewpoint he has lots to like at his age. People just gotta stop thinking every young player is gonna come into the league and pull a Selanne. Howden's game throughout his career has been more of a power forward, his physical attributes don't allow him to do that at an nhl level, it happens with most players of his style. He needs to get stronger and with strength he can then do the things that made him successful before he got to the nhl.

In what areas?

 

[egelband]

I ran some numbers, it’s absolutely feasible that we can do Cirelli at say 6 mil if we do one or more of things regarding Hank, Strome, ADA, Buch, Smith, Staal.

by the way, didn’t get to say that I enjoy your contributions being that you were in the hockey business. Was gonna mention that after the Dunlap post but the thread was renewed.

I’d say $6m is ok if we’re sure he’s a legit 2C. Is that a given, though?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

In what areas?

Defensive play, face offs, penalty killing, skating. He needs to get stronger to be able to physically win puck battles and be more assertive with the puck. The coaches i talked to when he was in junior said that he was very coachable so thats a positive too.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If Tampa bridges Cirelli, I'd gladly take Sergachev off their hands.

He turned into quite the beast this season.

 

[egelband]

Wasn't mentally prepared for the playoffs? Would have fit right in.

Haha. Very ouch.

 

[Leetch3]

Hypothetically, if Lias has a good season in Sweden...wouldn’t the Swedish season end while the the 20-21 NHL season is still on? Would Lias be eligible to join the Rangers at that point?

hypothetically yes he could join the the rangers late in the season if it makes sense...assuming he isn't on the national team