Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVII

[Edge]

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This is since Buch made the NHL. At 5v5 there's virtually no difference when you account for TOI. Of course when you just look at the last 2 years when Lindholm had a clear outlier of a season he looks much more impressive than Buch does when it comes to raw point totals but when you look at the totality of their careers and take into account ice time it's basically the same. Lindholm was really good last season defensively but outside of that he's been not good.

I think the problem is that it's not just points. He's getting more TOI because he's more consistent, he's more reliable all over the ice, and he's just a better player. His last two seasons aren't outliers, they're progression.

And that doesn't factor in that he's out there taking faceoffs or that he's really a good stylistic fit for what the Rangers have here.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think the problem is that it's not just points. He's getting more TOI because he's more consistent, he's more reliable all over the ice, and he's just a better player. His last two seasons aren't outliers, they're progression.

And that doesn't factor in that he's out there taking faceoffs or that he's really a good stylistic fit for what the Rangers have here.

And, this is what we go back with this whole rebuild, "which are the pieces that are going to fit?". There are going to be quality players that are going to get moved, including players the Rangers drafted, and some of the young prospects they traded for. If/when the Rangers win multiple Cups, it's not going to matter as much that they lost a particular deal talent-wise. It will all be based on the results.

 

[Leetch3]

And, this is what we go back with this whole rebuild, "which are the pieces that are going to fit?". There are going to be quality players that are going to get moved, including players the Rangers drafted, and some of the young prospects they traded for. If/when the Rangers win multiple Cups, it's not going to matter as much that they lost a particular deal talent-wise. It will all be based on the results.

yeah fit and roles are definitely important...if you have all the best individual players but the team isn't good what does that help.

 

[Edge]

And, this is what we go back with this whole rebuild, "which are the pieces that are going to fit?". There are to be quality players that are going to get moved, including players the Rangers drafted, and some of the young prospects they traded for. If/when the Rangers win multiple Cups, it's not going to matter as much that they lost a particular deal talent-wise. It will all be based on the results.

And it's funny, becuase one of the concepts that's been floated to be my various people with the club is that Buch could be a guy who is traded for someone "less talented/skilled" than him or someone who doesn't produce as much offense if the team feels it makes them more balanced.

That's why I've said, Buch could be a guy who goes for someone who is more defensively sound, at the cost of some points, or who brings a different dynamic.

I don't dislike Buch. I think he's a legit 20 goal, 55-60 point player. Due to circumstances, we haven't "hit" those numbers. But that's no different than Zibanejad not "hitting" 50 goals or 100 points. He's still at that performance level.

So if the Rangers move him, it has to be for quality.

 

[Ghost of jas]

yeah fit and roles are definitely important...if you have all the best individual players but the team isn't good what does that help.

See New York Rangers, circa 1997-2004.

 

[Ghost of jas]

And it's funny, becuase one of the concepts that's been floated to be my various people with the club is that Buch could be a guy who is traded for someone "less talented/skilled" than him or someone who doesn't produce as much offense if the team feels it makes them more balanced.

That's why I've said, Buch could be a guy who goes for someone who is more defensively sound, at the cost of some points, or who brings a different dynamic.

I don't dislike Buch. I think he's a legit 20 goal, 55-60 point player. Due to circumstances, we haven't "hit" those numbers. But that's no different than Zibanejad not "hitting" 50 goals or 100 points. He's still at that performance level.

So if the Rangers move him, it has to be for quality.

I know you didn't say that this was necessarily the case, but, I have to believe that seeing the commitment and lessons learned by Kravtsov has to at least give management the idea that he is on the right track. And considering they believed he was the 2nd best forward prospect in 2018, and having been gifted Kakko and Lafreniere, AND having another 1st round pick, I have to be believe that, while they value Buch, he's not someone they feel is irreplaceable.

 

[broadwayblue]

Buch is definitely a candidate to be moved. I can see the Canes 1st rounder being in play as well.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Question:

With all this talk about the Flames and Oilers, could we make a trade now? Or will it have to wait until after the playoffs?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So if Carolina loses this round we are guaranteed somewhere between 20-23 since Dallas and Calgary are playing this round (ensuring at least one lower ranked team moves on).

If they lose to Boston, it's 20-24

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Question:

With all this talk about the Flames and Oilers, could we make a trade now? Or will it have to wait until after the playoffs?

Technically, they can still trade but it probably won't happen. GMs rarely trade while they are still in the play offs, and never when roster players are involved in those trades

 

[Ola]

Question:

With all this talk about the Flames and Oilers, could we make a trade now? Or will it have to wait until after the playoffs?

There is no ban on trades although they are rare while the POs are still ongoing (just for the record, the PO rosters are of course set and cannot be added too).

But one thing re Calgary, things change so fast. They could have been a lot more eager to do something had they exited in the Play-Ins. Think they have a lot more positive feeling right now. Could be drastically different in a few weeks. I think Dallas is the weakest teams of all still playing. Calgary could be very content with what they have soon...

 

[Edge]

I know you didn't say that this was necessarily the case, but, I have to believe that seeing the commitment and lessons learned by Kravtsov has to at least give management the idea that he is on the right track. And considering they believed he was the 2nd best forward prospect in 2018, and having been gifted Kakko and Lafreniere, AND having another 1st round pick, I have to be believe that, while they value Buch, he's not someone they feel is irreplaceable.

The concern with moving Buchnevich is the gap that exists right now.

But, Lindholm potentially offers a bit of a safety net against that. If Chytil becomes a second line center, we already know Lindholm can play RW and be defensively responsible.

Or, for whatever length of time, he plays center for the Rangers.

Either way, I think he's a good fit.

But, watch Calgary go all the way to the Cup and any talk of shaking things up go with it.

 

[Ghost of jas]

The concern with moving Buchnevich is the gap that exists right now.

But, Lindholm potentially offers a bit of a safety net against that. If Chytil becomes a second line center, we already know Lindholm can play RW and be defensively responsible.

Or, for whatever length of time, he plays center for the Rangers.

Either way, I think he's a good fit.

But, watch Calgary go all the way to the Cup and any talk of shaking things up go with it.

Plus, Strome can also move to RW in the interim.

 

[aufheben]

Don’t Flames fans love Lindholm?

 

[NikC]

And, this is what we go back with this whole rebuild, "which are the pieces that are going to fit?". There are going to be quality players that are going to get moved, including players the Rangers drafted, and some of the young prospects they traded for. If/when the Rangers win multiple Cups, it's not going to matter as much that they lost a particular deal talent-wise. It will all be based on the results.

Ha, you're trading Tony Amonte all over again.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Ha, you're trading Tony Amonte all over again.

Buchnevich has a ways to go to be Amonte, and he hasn't been Amonte so far in his career.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Alright, here goes:

1. Trade Smith and like a 3rd to OTT for Reilly to partner with Trouba Until Miller is ready
2. Trade for Lindholm with a package of a signed ADA, Georgiev, Lias, + (Whatever it takes)
3. trade Strome + to Buffalo for Colin Miller (Buff needs F)

Laf Ziba Buch
Pan Lindholm Kakko
Krieder Chytil Kravtsov
Lemmy Howton Gauthier
DiG or vet C

Lindgren Fox
Reilly Trouba
Staal Miller
Hajek

Czar/King

Leaves us with 3+ mil in cap room

 

[Edge]

Don’t Flames fans love Lindholm?

Yes, he is popular.

I would imagine there would be negative reactions to his departure just as there would be to ADA's.

 

[Edge]

Ha, you're trading Tony Amonte all over again.

Hopefully not that to that extreme. But yeah, similar approach.

 

[aufheben]

Yes, he is popular.

I would imagine there would be negative reactions to his departure just as there would be to ADA's.

Is that the proposal people are talking about? DeAngelo for Lindholm?

 

[Edge]

Is that the proposal people are talking about? DeAngelo for Lindholm?

Speculation and fantasy trades.

In a nutshell: Rangers had asked about Lindholm and Hanifin in past talks. Calgary has inquired about Buch. ADA was mentioned as a way to even things out if the Rangers pursued both Lindholm and Hanifin.

No one knows if Calgary actually has any desire to move Lindholm, or if it's just on the Rangers end (and whether it's still something the Rangers want).

 

[Irishguy42]

Elias Lindholm is on an insanely good contract until 2024. The Flames would have to be incredibly blown away or stupid to give him up.

If you want a Lindholm, go get the one in Anaheim. Or, if you still want a LD, Brodin in Minnesota.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Is that the proposal people are talking about? DeAngelo for Lindholm?

Not quite. @Edge has said that the Rangers and Flames have discussed players in the past. The Rangers have inquired about Lindholm and Hanifan, and the Flames have asked about Buchnevich and were in on the Kreider discussions. Upthread, I threw a proposal out - DeAngelo/Buchnevich for Hanifan/Lindholm. The Rangers would get their LD to play next to Trouba and a potential 2c (if the Rangers view him in that manner) who's defensively responsible and can win faceoffs.

 

[aufheben]

Elias Lindholm is on an insanely good contract until 2024. The Flames would have to be incredibly blown away or stupid to give him up.

If you want a Lindholm, go get the one in Anaheim.

Idk about Hampus. He’d absolutely fit like a glove, but his production isn’t amazing and his CF% has been steadily declining. And he’d cost an insane amount of assets.

 

[aufheben]

Flames fans: Lindholm is not for sale.