Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVI

[Levitate]

So this must be the most astounding report about the Rangers written in years due to Gorton's quotes, jesus this summer is taking off before it even started, I almost fell of the chair reading it:
https://nypost.com/2019/06/11/rangers-arent-shying-away-from-buyouts-this-summer/

Some quotes from Gorton and their perspective:

“In all honesty, we haven’t ruled it out,” general manager Jeff Gorton told The Post on Tuesday when asked if the club intends to go that route. “It’s on the table. And regardless of what we do with this buyout window, we’d certainly look at the second one, too, depending on what comes up over the next few weeks. A lot can happen.”

1. Gorton is basically saying that the 10m or so they will have of cap-space (“The number is about right" according to Gorton) after the RFA's might not be enough for his plans the coming weeks, meaning that they will consider buy-outs during the second window. Seems pretty scary to me.

Eh, this seems like some vague GM speak in a lot of ways. I think it'd be totally unsurprising if they buy no one out and don't sign any of the big name FA's. Gorton is basically saying they're keeping their options open, but that doesn't mean their options are locked into freeing up cap space for big acquisitions.

Then:
."..but I wouldn’t get fixated on that [only 10m of cap space],” the GM said. “I think we have a number of guys who are pretty valuable around the league, so we’re going to have a lot of flexibility over the summer."

2. Lol, we all know that we have one guy who are pretty valuable around the league and who is taking up cap-space (which must be what Gorton is referring to, moving an ELC hardly gives us more flex) and that is of course Chris Kreider, no surprise there. But Gorton is obviously de facto considering adding flexibility, or how it should be put, by moving other guys on our roster taking up cap-space and that are "pretty valuable around the league".

Who can that be? Skjei? Ziba? Strome or Names (are they really valuable around the league)???

I think Edge has said that Namestnikov definitely has value around the league and has been inquired about, but we just have to keep in mind that value isn't like 1st round or nice prospect return value. Fast probably gets some interest as well, Buch, maybe Pionk...not guys that will return a bunch but I bet teams are sniffing around just to see what might be up.

3.

Then some less explosive stuff, but still newsworthy:
Brooks: "If Kevin Hayes does not sign with the Flyers, who acquired his rights from Winnipeg for a fifth-rounder, before hitting the open market, the Rangers most certainly will check in on the potential prodigal."

Larry probably pitches these things to Gorton when he talks to him, and get a teller if he is out on thin ice or not. But I wouldn't read much into it, Gorton isn't one who closes doors. He will probably check in with Hayes, I don't doubt that, but Gorton passed up an option to lock up Hayes long-term at around 5-6m by all reports -- resigning him now will come at a totally different price-tag.

I mean in theory if Hayes decided to come back on a decent deal that would strengthen the Rangers down the middle immensely for sure and again at that 2-3 years out mark would still be productive

And:
"A lot can happen"- Gorts

4. This is more my interpretation, but I definitely not sure that the above message from Gorton means that they will go all in for the big UFAs and look to get up to two of them. I think its just as likely that he will pull off trade for an expensive big name.

We've seen that Gorton is pretty tight lipped. He's talking a lot here but he's not really saying a lot. It's a lot of "we're keeping options open, this could happen, we'll think about that..." it's essentially saying "we could trade some guys but we might not, we could buy some guys out but we might not, we could sign some FA's but maybe not..."

The most notable part of it all is that he's saying they're looking at all angles and at everything and not sitting back and standing pat this offseason with what they have

 

[pld459666]

But how much of that is due to him playing on the wrong side? It would suck to lose DeAngelo though. I am just afraid that Gorton will end up bridging him and then he keeps playing well making him a 7-8m player in a couple of years. I think he was our second best skater last season.

I'm not as big a believer as you are that playing his off side makes him that much of a defensive liability.

 

[bobbop]

Other than the offer sheer scenario, I think Carp’s article was spot on. Especially the part about trading some young assets.

 

[pld459666]

materially better without making the playoffs just means we pick lower in the draft. If that's where you are as a team, fine. But you don't get the biggest gun on the market if the only thing to gain from it is picking lower in the draft. It is counterproductive to the rebuild and delays our window for serious competition.

As much as I would like for another bottom 5 finish this season coming, I highly doubt the team makes moves with that as their intention

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The thing I don’t understand with the buyouts is what they need the money for

Like we keep hearing they may or may not be in on free agents

Unless the plan is to take on multiple garbage contracts for assets

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

...but it seems that Kravstov was good at playing center, so...

I disagree

 

[True Blue]

I think Trouba is a perfect fit and adds a dimension to the right side that we really don't have in the system...but I have little interest in paying what I expect to be the price to get him at this point. I'd rather hope he hits UFA next summer

That is my thought. There is almost no way that Trouba does not get to UFA. If Gorton loves him that much, no need to move assets to get him. Just be patient for a year.

 

[True Blue]

I agree with this in general, but Trouba is an exception for me – provided the deal primarily revolves around leveraging the team's Skjei/LHD prospect depth to acquire him.

I skeptical on Trouba in general. The whole idea of paying someone to be what they have not been before (in this case Trouba to be the top pairing defenseman and anchor of a defense) and with a lesser supporting cast smacks of mistakes of days of yore. Trouba's ask will be $7+ range. But even that aside, as I said, this kid WILL hit free agency. Why not just wait, if the desire to get him is so strong?

And to boot, there is his inability to stay on the ice. Definitely pass on giving up assets for him.

 

[pld459666]

I've said it before, I'll say it again, we are NOT going to be icing all of the kids we've acquired over the last 24 months.

A 3-1 trade is going to be made for someone. May not be this year or 2020, but it will happen.

 

[Avery16]

I disagree

 

[bobbop]

Re: Trouba...I’ve raised the possibility of trading both Andersson and Lundkvist as part of a deal. It’s possible that the two of them could be the deal. Young assets are exactly that, assets.

You need to think like the Jets GM. If they keep Trouba this year as a self rental, he walks for nothing next year. Winnipeg has traded away two firsts and some young players in the last 18 months. They are extremely tight on the cap. They need short and long term help up the middle. They are a draft and develop team.

Now think like Gorton. Trouba is going to be an $8MM player this year or next year. I seriously doubt anyone trades for him unless they are confident he will sign a long term contract which means he is essentially off the market for the future. He is 25. Let that sink in for a minute. He’s a year younger than Mika. And he is an exceptionally good defensive player with some bite, something the Rangers haven’t had on the back end in years. He is not Victor Herman or Drew Doughty but he could be a cornerstone of the rebuild for many years to come.

There’s a deal to be made here.

 

[Raspewtin]

That is my thought. There is almost no way that Trouba does not get to UFA. If Gorton loves him that much, no need to move assets to get him. Just be patient for a year.

A lot of things can change in a year.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I would also say a Shattenkirk buyout (which I vehemently disagree with) signals to me that either:

A) the reported interest in Karlsson is very much real

or

B) they will be acquiring a Trouba or someone like that in the summer

I can’t see them going into the season with Pionk, DeAngelo and Fox on the right side

 

[DutchShamrock]

And, as others have stated, how much of Point’s production is due to him being on an offensively stacked team? I’m not buying the ‘offer sheet’ route, especially after the Rangers went four straight years without a 1st.

I do wonder how much offer sheet talk is posturing to force a trade.

 

[True Blue]

Names is an interesting player. He gets criticized for being a passenger during his time in Tampa, but that's the exact reason I think teams would like to add him. It's very hard to find versatile, defensively responsible players who can skate a regular shift with your stars while actually putting up points.

I can easily see him having a career like Pascal Dupuis. An unsung player who had his best years as a key winger for a star player.

He can be a very good third line player on a stacked team and also be able to ride shotgun to an elite player. Not worth $4m, but a solid player. If Kravstov and Kakko force the issue and make the team, there is just no room for him. I would much prefer to head into the season with a third line of Lemieux-Andersson-Strome.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Carps article:

Everything is on the table.

I think his stuff has been better since moving to the athletic, but come on Rick....

 

[Raspewtin]

I agree re: Names, he's not a bad player at all but he's definitely a player I'm not looking for excuses to keep in the line-up.

 

[Avery16]

I can’t see them going into the season with Pionk, DeAngelo and Fox on the right side

I hear Smith plays the right side

 

[True Blue]

A lot of things can change in a year.

There is almost no way that a 25-26 year old who has Trouba's talent level does not test free agency to see what the market is. Sure, he could sign with a team that trades for him, but he would be signing for what he believes he can get on the market. If this was an older player, then yeah the chances of reaching a deal is much greater. But with a young player? Virtually no chance. At least that is what I believe.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There is almost no way that a 25-26 year old who has Trouba's talent level does not test free agency to see what the market is. Sure, he could sign with a team that trades for him, but he would be signing for what he believes he can get on the market. If this was an older player, then yeah the chances of reaching a deal is much greater. But with a young player? Virtually no chance. At least that is what I believe.

I don't think anyone trades for him with out an extension in place.

That said, Lias+Lundkvist+picks is insane for Trouba.

I'll give them Pionk and the 2nds.

 

[Off Sides]

That is my thought. There is almost no way that Trouba does not get to UFA. If Gorton loves him that much, no need to move assets to get him. Just be patient for a year.

I think Trouba makes it to UFA because I think that is what he wants to do. Same reason I think Hayes made it there. I'd say probably Kreider too.

I can't blame them, the contracts signed when players are on the UFA market where several teams are sending in competing offers, it makes perfect sense should a player be resolved to move on, or his current team not intent on bringing him back.

 

[True Blue]

I think Trouba makes it to UFA because I think that is what he wants to do. Same reason I think Hayes made it there. I'd say probably Kreider too.

I can't blame them, the contracts signed when players are on the UFA market where several teams are sending in competing offers, it makes perfect sense should a player be resolved to move on, or his current team not intent on bringing him back.

I think that Kreider is a different story for several reasons. I don't think the had the contentiousness that Trouba has had in Winnipeg as far as contracts go. He is also older and a career Ranger, who is a cornerstone of the locker room. I could be wrong, but I think there is a deal to be had. Provided of course that his ask falls within whatever Gorton believes and that Gorton doesn't outright trade him at the draft.

 

[Off Sides]

I think that Kreider is a different story for several years. I don't think the had the contentiousness that Trouba has in Winnipeg as far as contracts go. He is also older and a career Ranger, who is a cornerstone of the locker room. I could be wrong, but I think there is a deal to be had. Provided of course that his ask falls within whatever Gorton believes and that Gorton doesn't outright trade him at the draft.

Fair enough, if the player is resolved to stay to the point they'd accept less than UFA prices, with lesser clauses too, perhaps. Yet those two are sort of opposing forces, the less the contract the better chance of trade, thus likely the more desire for the clauses.

 

[Raspewtin]

It really depends on the ask for me re: Trouba because I think he's good and has elements we don't have but I'm not killing myself to get him when so many of our prospects are still in flux.

There is almost no way that a 25-26 year old who has Trouba's talent level does not test free agency to see what the market is. Sure, he could sign with a team that trades for him, but he would be signing for what he believes he can get on the market. If this was an older player, then yeah the chances of reaching a deal is much greater. But with a young player? Virtually no chance. At least that is what I believe.

What i'm saying is that waiting a year to hopefully get him in UFA offers significantly less chance to grab him than if we were to trade for him and sign now; which i'd severely doubt the Rangers would do without that protection.

If you really like Trouba and think he can be a cornerstone piece I just don't think waiting for UFA is realistic. But it depends on what you think.

 

[True Blue]

What i'm saying is that waiting a year to hopefully get him in UFA offers significantly less chance to grab him than if we were to trade for him and sign now; which i'd severely doubt the Rangers would do without that protection.

If you really like Trouba and think he can be a cornerstone piece I just don't think waiting for UFA is realistic. But it depends on what you think.

I understand and get your view. I just think that a) Trouba hits UFA no matter what. And if there is an extension, it will be for A LOT of money & b) Trading assets AND then signing him to a premier UFA deal is a lot to give up for a player that has not been a cornerstone and has had issues staying on the ice.

But your point is valid. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If someone views Trouba as that cornerstone, the conversation changes.