Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVI

[Trxjw]

Not to be melodramatic but I'd be very disappointed with Hayes returning to NY. Not because of Hayes so much, but because it would indicate a very low level of creative thinking from the Rangers, IMO.

Another thing: Gorton may have left the idea of buyouts on the table, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's buying out guys who are on the team right now. He could pick up a bad contract or two and buy them out. Say a certain veteran LW residing in Toronto?

 

[Waivers]

No thanks to Hayes and Zuccarello. Time to move on, fellas.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Not to be melodramatic but I'd be very disappointed with Hayes returning to NY. Not because of Hayes so much, but because it would indicate a very low level of creative thinking from the Rangers, IMO.

Another thing: Gorton may have left the idea of buyouts on the table, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's buying out guys who are on the team right now. He could pick up a bad contract or two and buy them out. Say a certain veteran LW residing in Toronto?

Getting a good return for a player and then getting that player for free is not creative? Maybe other teams don't want to give up much for their cap dumps?

 

[Off Sides]

I kind of think Fox should spend some time in the AHL. If they are intent on getting it together down there, having some talent down there would probably help in that process especially at RD.

They should have goal-tending this year if Shesterkin adapts well.

Without buyouts or trades of the NHL D, they could have a full actual good 8 D core that includes three RD, yet Rykov and Reunanen have out clauses so they may be down to 6.

Hajek, Lindgren, Crawley, (Reunanen, Rykov)

Fox, Keane, Raddysh

(Bigras maybe stays too, Bergman I think I saw was leaving)

Maybe put a little more onus on D development at the AHL level with intent on teaching them what they'll be doing at the NHL level so when they can finally move on from Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk those guys can maybe step in pretty seamlessly?

To me that seems to be kind of a two part possible solution, they don't need to buyout anyone, and maybe it helps the AHL become more stable.

 

[Ghost of jas]

No thanks to Hayes and Zuccarello. Time to move on, fellas.

Tell that to Larry Brooks.

 

[GAGLine]

I kind of think Fox should spend some time in the AHL. If they are intent on getting it together down there, having some talent down there would probably help in that process especially at RD.

They should have goal-tending this year if Shesterkin adapts well.

Without buyouts or trades of the NHL D, they could have a full actual good 8 D core that includes three RD, yet Rykov and Reunanen have out clauses so they may be down to 6.

Rykov's EAC only applies to the 2nd year.

Having Fox in Hartford might be best for Hartford, but what is best for Fox?

 

[RangerBoy]

Carpiniello has a new article. My head hurts after reading it.

Let’s Make a Deal: Don’t be surprised at all if one or more of the Rangers’ top prospects, one of those drafted or acquired in the last three summers, is involved in a deal.

I think the Rangers are going to be making some hockey trades, too. Just simple player-for-player deals.

Like the old days. These assets they’ve acquired since the Derek Stepan trade kicked off the rebuild are just that. Assets. When you accumulate as many as the Rangers have (and so quickly) some become your foundation, some become chips to play to fortify that foundation.

The trade direction, I believe, will be to improve the defense for now and the future.

They can also trade to move up in the draft, perhaps, if there’s a player they like a lot but don’t think they’ll get with No. 20 (from Winnipeg in the Kevin Hayes trade). Or they can move down. Or they can deal that pick or some of their other picks as parts of packages to address a more immediate need. A top-pair defenseman? Hmm.

How many "hockey trades" are made in the current NHL? Everything comes down to the contract.

The Rangers have assets to trade but what are they getting back?

He writes the Rangers will be aggressive but they won't be crazy. He brought up Trouba. The Rangers like him. They don't love him. The cost of getting him and paying him will be too much.

Offer sheets just don’t happen: Until now? There’s been a lot of noise that this could be the year it happens, with teams up against the salary cap and in trouble with their top restricted free agents. We’ll believe it when we see it, but it seems plausible, even likely, the Rangers will make an attempt in that area.

The Rangers, though, won’t target RFAs whose teams will match, i.e. Mitch Marner with Toronto.
As I’ve written previously, Brayden Point makes sense because he is not only young and prolific, but because Tampa Bay is really up against the wall with its salary cap.

Point’s age (23) and eye-popping stats (41 goals, 51 assists in 79 games last season) and the fact that he plays center – a 1-2 punch of Point/Mika Zibanejad isn’t a bad look, is it? – makes him a prime target.

How the contract could be structured to make it impossible for Tampa to match will be an interesting
exercise for Davidson and Gorton.

But this is happening. At least the attempt is happening. The Rangers will surely talk to Point during the week prior to July 1, when clubs are permitted to meet with prospective free agents.

The patience preached by Davidson and Gorton, I believe, means if they strike out on their targeted free agents, they won’t go chasing others for the sake of chasing. Could there be lower-level free agents who improve the current roster? Yes. But they won’t go hog wild as the Rangers of the distant past would do and start tossing big contracts at older players. They just won’t.

People ask about the heavy compensation for signing a prime RFA. Let’s say the compensation for Point is four first-rounders. Well, do you think if the Rangers draft in the first round for the next four years (starting in 2020) that they’ll come up with another Point? And even if they do, in what year will that “next Point” be ready to be a top player? 2022? 2024?

The 2020 first round pick could be a better player than Point. This same guy said the Rangers wouldn't be so bad last season and they would NEVER get the opportunity to select at the top of the draft. Henrik is too good for that to happen.

Point is a nice player. The "next" Point. GTFOH.

The Rangers are a rebuilding team.

I like Mika very much but I am not sold on him long-term here.

 

[Off Sides]

Rykov's EAC only applies to the 2nd year.

Having Fox in Hartford might be best for Hartford, but what is best for Fox?

Fox may come in to camp and nail it, yet if there is any question I don't see the rush to start the season with him in the NHL. There is bound to be some acclimation time needed from playing in the NCAA versus playing in the pros even if that is at the AHL level.

Also good info on Rykov, I did not know it only applied to year 2.

 

[charliemurphy]

Shatt should be very tradeable especially with 50% retained. The only buyout I would consider is Staal because we cannot send him down and he can block any trade.

Shattenkirk's separated shoulder and torn miniscus say hello.

 

[GAGLine]

I could see the Rangers having discussions about trading for Point, but there's no chance we are giving him an offer sheet. Gorton isn't going to suddenly reverse course and give up 4 straight 1st round picks for 1 player, especially unprotected picks, which is what they would be.

 

[charliemurphy]

How many more playoff rounds do you think it gets us?

Trick question. The answer is none. We won’t be making the playoffs either way.

Atta boy... that's the spirit!!!

 

[Ola]

Would not like that trade for the Rangers.

The shine for Ghost has faded quite a bit for me.

Kid is not that good in his own end and that 65pt season is the outlier for what is a 35+ point per season guy.

For a team as piss poor as the Rangers were last year, DeAngelo put up 7 less points in 17 less games and he was a plus player.

I think I'd prefer kreider and ADA over No. 11 and Ghost.

But how much of that is due to him playing on the wrong side? It would suck to lose DeAngelo though. I am just afraid that Gorton will end up bridging him and then he keeps playing well making him a 7-8m player in a couple of years. I think he was our second best skater last season.

 

[Polar Bear]

I could see the Rangers having discussions about trading for Point, but there's no chance we are giving him an offer sheet. Gorton isn't going to suddenly reverse course and give up 4 straight 1st round picks for 1 player, especially unprotected picks, which is what they would be.

Agreed. Point is a fantastic player though.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Imagine seeing the detrimental effects of trading 4 straight first round picks, only to suggest doing so again.

What a time to be alive.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Carpiniello has a new article. My head hurts after reading it.



How many "hockey trades" are made in the current NHL? Everything comes down to the contract.

The Rangers have assets to trade but what are they getting back?

He writes the Rangers will be aggressive but they won't be crazy. He brought up Trouba. The Rangers like him. They don't love him. The cost of getting him and paying him will be too much.



The 2020 first round pick could be a better player than Point. This same guy said the Rangers wouldn't be so bad last season and they would NEVER get the opportunity to select at the top of the draft. Henrik is too good for that to happen.

Point is a nice player. The "next" Point. GTFOH.

The Rangers are a rebuilding team.

I like Mika very much but I am not sold on him long-term here.

It's all contradictions. Another guy writing based on his wishes.

I do see the possibility of assets being used, maybe for an NHL player on a capped out team. Say its Roslovic and Perrault for Fast and Pionk and Lindgren (an example, I know it's bad). But that happens after the draft, when the free agent market shapes up and Laine and Connor are signing for a lot. Nylander is a target when Marner gets sheeted and they are desperate to clear cap. Teams circle Point, and Tampa has to attach a 2020 1st to Callahan. That's when our cheap, waiver exempt assets can be in play.

 

[Off Sides]

So they offer sheet Point at what like 10M, then they trade some of the recent picks/prospects added away for vets?

They buyout Shattenkirk and Smith to make room for the giant Trouba contract.

They go the next 4 drafts without a 1st, they traded away a couple former 1st round picks they already used, and without any cap space as much of it is used on Lundqvist, Point, Trouba, the vets they traded for and the buyouts.

What a plan.

 

[Leetch3]

Chytil actually has gotten a shot at it, and both Kakko and Kravstov have played center, so that would be a pretty bad bet on your part.

not gonna rule out them ever getting a look at center, but I think its a pretty safe bet that they aren't going to play out of position as rookies especially as the 2C unless we are devastated by injuries

 

[Leetch3]

Signing Hayes for 2 years and overpaying let's say 7.5 mil per would make sense for both parties. Rangers fill the gap, and Hayes get to have 2 more seasons to showcase himself while getting top dollars.

how does that make any sense for kevin hayes? so he's gonna take 7.5 mil for 2 years over 6.5 for 7?

 

[DutchShamrock]

I could see the Rangers having discussions about trading for Point, but there's no chance we are giving him an offer sheet. Gorton isn't going to suddenly reverse course and give up 4 straight 1st round picks for 1 player, especially unprotected picks, which is what they would be.

@kreiderman had a great point in his podcast. 4 years is not a long time to see your fortunes completely reverse in the NHL. You don't know what those picks will be. 4 years ago we were recently in the final and still contending every year. Edmonton looked like it turned a corner but they are back in the top 10, probably stuck there a few more years.

Ottawa gave up 1 unprotected first because they thought their conference finals appearance wasn't a fluke.

 

[Ola]

These Gorton/JD articles have a pattern. Specifically with Brooks. They give their standard "everything is being explored" responses, but when they are given the floor they consistently say patience and stick to the plan.

The writers shoehorn the buyouts, UFA moves, huge trades. They ask if it's possible, of course they agree it's possible. Gorton doesn't paint himself into corners.

Look at the JD article last week. Quote after quote of JD liking what Gorton has done, stresses patience, telling us there is model to build a winner. Then Brooks says they'll be aggressive, accelerate the rebuild. Sticks that paragraph in the middle of a JD "trust the process" speech.

Gorton quotes are like chicken. They taste like whatever you want it to. Myself included, I want them to be patient and get more information about their young players. I can 100% be wrong but I choose to believe the recent pattern of activity instead of the predictions run through Brooks' filter, the guy that thought Hayes was staying.

I don't buy going after UFAs, but its hard to deny the quotes from Gorton in Brook's article:

"There’s also the [10%] allowance where you can go over the cap. We’re not looking at it as if we can make only one big move or addition. We’ll see where it goes."

The other day JD said that "it’s very dangerous when players lose hope".

Just calling it like I am seeing it, but if those quotes aren't interpreted as that Gorton will try to at least make one big addition this summer -- I think you are sticking your head in the sand a bit. I agree with you, I also want them to be patient, and I also think there will be some more options around there besides the most expensive UFAs, but Gorton cannot be interpreted as that his plan is to sit put and only pull the trigger on something that he thinks really gives us good value, he is more or less saying that he aggressively will pursue at least one option that will jump start us a little bit, possibly even two.

At least I cannot interpret it in any other way.

 

[Edge]

Carp is right about one thing - I don’t see the Rangers throwing caution to the wind and going for players at any cost.

But they’re kicking tires right now and walking the lot to see what different options will cost.

 

[Off Sides]

Exploring trading for say Nylander who is already signed, or one of Kapanen, Johnsson who both have several RFA years left is a little different than them trading for Trouba or offer sheeting Point.

 

[RGY]

Please God stay away from Offer Sheets. That is just a death warrant to your farm system.

Teams that stay in the top tier of the league for several years are the ones that constantly have the next kid up ready to be infused into the lineup when there is an injury, a departing aging vet, or someone due a new contract that just makes more sense to be traded than re-signed.

We need to keep our farm system stacked so our window can be open as long as possible.

If we are going to add a player it should be the UFA route and not the RFA route. My other issue is, as a rebuilding team, the minute you pull that offer sheet out you damn well know you are creating a bulls-eye on your back. Even if it is for a lesser player like Kapanen with the Leafs.

Just bad all around.

 

[Trxjw]

All of these pundits seem to base their acquisition suggestions on the very complex algorithm of: NHL.com + stats + sort by points.

The Rangers need to find players who can out perform their contract and acquisition cost. Trouba and Point are great players but they aren't that kind of target. Ristolainen, Nylander, etc. Young players with term that have upside to be a bargain if they reach their ceiling.

 

[GAGLine]

@kreiderman had a great point in his podcast. 4 years is not a long time to see your fortunes completely reverse in the NHL. You don't know what those picks will be. 4 years ago we were recently in the final and still contending every year. Edmonton looked like it turned a corner but they are back in the top 10, probably stuck there a few more years.

Ottawa gave up 1 unprotected first because they thought their conference finals appearance wasn't a fluke.

Yeah. We all rooted for Dallas in the playoffs, but if they re-sign Zucc, we're all going to be praying they miss the playoffs next year. With the way the lottery works now, it's very risky to trade unprotected picks.