Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLV

[Oscar Lindberg]

Both Kakko and Fox would still be under team control, so I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

This is the new NHL. Star young players coming off their ELC contracts get paid.

Doesn't matter if they're under team control

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Also people assuming Strome will continue to keep up a monster point pace. Panarin will most likely regress next season, as will Strome. If Strome hits 50 points next year I'll be shocked

 

[NYR Viper]

I'd be more inclined to give Strome a 3 year deal than Fast. Gauthier, Kakko, Kravtsov to give ample future options on the right side of Panarin-Stome. Also if Chtil continues to develop then they can push Strome to wing so his versatility is valuable while the younger forwards develop.

I also think Smith is move-able this summer if for nothing else, a lower paid depth forward for next season.

 

[Mikos87]

I think Strome gets a Brassard like deal. Which was very very good for the Rangers. Front loaded money, with good security and a healthy signing bonus, but in turn Strome lays off the cap hit. Strome's a very smart guy, he's one that understands time value of money from being around the league a bit and managing a post ELC contract.

I'd be okay with him getting a 4-5 year deal with a diminishing amount of dollars. If you sign him to a 5 year deal, make sure there isn't any SB $ prior to the start of the 5th year. Makes him more tradeable that way. The Rangers are a team that can really re-capitalize on this asset with a smartly structured contract.

Trade the guy after year 2 or 3 and get a haul in return. He keeps this pace up, he'll get a haul.

 

[True Blue]

Panarin would still be an 80-90 point guy with out Strome. I wouldn't get too hung up on this year's numbers, unless league scoring continues to go up, we've likely seen the best of Panarin production wise.

I did not say anything about points that Panarin would put up. That is only one segment of the equation. The other being that IF this is who Strome is with Panarin, then you have a 70 point player who gels with your teams top players. And all of these factors allow for the coaching staff to deploy Panarin and ZBad on two separate lines.

It's not about replacing a guy with an ELC just because, but not tying ourselves into another substantial contract for a player who you could get a decent return for and is very unlikely to replicate the production he just put up.

Neither you nor I have any idea of what Strome is or is not going to ask for in a contract. That is conjecture. Also, neither you nor I know what Strome is or is not going to put up after playing with Panarin again. We do know what he has put up and what he was putting up last year. And we do know that Strome is not a talent-less hack, but rather a former 5th overall pick who may not be a 70 point player but was certainly looking like a 45-50 second line player for most of his time with the Rangers. We have no idea of how a Chytil will perform in that position (Panarin's linemate). We do however know that to replace Strome (call him our second line center) on the open market will probably cost more than trying to resign him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I did not say anything about points that Panarin would put up. That is only one segment of the equation. The other being that IF this is who Strome is with Panarin, then you have a 70 point player who gels with your teams top players. And all of these factors allow for the coaching staff to deploy Panarin and ZBad on two separate lines.

Neither you nor I have any idea of what Strome is or is not going to ask for in a contract. That is conjecture. Also, neither you nor I know what Strome is or is not going to put up after playing with Panarin again. We do know what he has put up and what he was putting up last year. And we do know that Strome is not a talent-less hack, but rather a former 5th overall pick who may not be a 70 point player but was certainly looking like a 45-50 second line player for most of his time with the Rangers. We have no idea of how a Chytil will perform in that position (Panarin's linemate). We do however know that to replace Strome (call him our second line center) on the open market will probably cost more than trying to resign him.

Strome is at 3.1 mill right now, it's safe to say that he's in line for a pretty substantial raise on that.

What we do know is that Panarin drives his line and has produced with everyone he has played with in the league. I'm not saying throw Howden up there with him, but the Strome effect on him is crazy overstated. A talentless hack he is not, but I'm not sacrificing other players down the line because he's taking up 5+ mil against the cap. If they want to sign him cheaper on a 1 year deal with the intention of letting him walk as a UFA, fine. Anything beyond that is not something we should be interested in unless he takes a well below market deal, which I wouldn't expect from him or anyone.

Strome has nothing to do with being able to split Zibanejad and Panarin up. Zibanejad and Panarin themselves are responsible for that.

 

[True Blue]

Strome is at 3.1 mill right now, it's safe to say that he's in line for a pretty substantial raise on that.

What is substantial? $5m sounds like smart business. If you are implying more,I have stated multiple times reasons that I do not see Strome doing that.

What we do know is that Panarin drives his line and has produced with everyone he has played with in the league. I'm not saying throw Howden up there with him, but the Strome effect on him is crazy overstated. A talentless hack he is not, but I'm not sacrificing other players down the line because he's taking up 5+ mil against the cap. If they want to sign him cheaper on a 1 year deal with the intention of letting him walk as a UFA, fine. Anything beyond that is not something we should be interested in unless he takes a well below market deal, which I wouldn't expect from him or anyone.

No one is denying what Panarin is. And no one is creating a "Strome effect". But to presume that in a year where Panarin was set to break all of his personal marks, that Strome has had zero point zero to do with it seems disingenuous at a bare minimum. So if you are going to continue to point out that he has produced with everyone, it then becomes important to point out that he has produced his best lifetime numbers with Strome. That is just as valid a point as pointing out his prior production.

To presume that basically any third line player can step in and 1) morph into a 70 point player and 2) help Panarin achieve numbers that he has previously not had is a pretty big risk. And not one that I would take. So yeah, I would take him at $5m for 2-4 years and I would also resign DeAngelo which means that when the musical chairs stop, there is probably not room for Buch.

Strome has nothing to do with being able to split Zibanejad and Panarin up. Zibanejad and Panarin themselves are responsible for that.

Right. All one needs to do is simply skate around on the ice and fling pucks to Panarin's side of the ice and all will be magical. Becoming a 70 point player, having amazing chemistry with your top player and certainly factoring into his scoring is a factor in not needing to put ZBad and Panarin together.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Strome will shut his mouth and take what he is offered. He's already been thrown in the trash by 2 teams already. If he has a brain in his head, he will realize he's playing for a first class organization and with Panarin and take 4.5 over 4 years and jump for joy.

 

[EdJovanovski]

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Strome will shut his mouth and take what he is offered. He's already been thrown in the trash by 2 teams already. If he has a brain in his head, he will realize he's playing for a first class organization and with Panarin and take 4.5 over 4 years and jump for joy.

People throw this around as if the other 30 organizations are trash.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Strome is at 3.1 mill right now, it's safe to say that he's in line for a pretty substantial raise on that.

In your opinion, what is a substantial raise for him?

What we do know is that Panarin drives his line and has produced with everyone he has played with in the league.

Panarin is an outstanding player. I have not seen a Ranger with the ice vision and passing that he possesses since Gretzky — and that includes Jagr. But he's having his best season, by any measurement (currently 8 points clear of his previous career high — in 69 games). Career highs in goals and assists. Whether you want to accept it or not, Strome has played a large part in it. Sure Panarin makes Strome better, but Strome on some level, Strome has made Panarin even better. And we have seen many instances with a good player either can't make another player better (Nash and Richards, Gomez/Drury and Jagr).

A talentless hack he is not, but I'm not sacrificing other players down the line because he's taking up 5+ mil against the cap.

Anything under $6M for 60+ player is a hell of a deal. That would be more protection for less than what they gave Stepan.

Strome has nothing to do with being able to split Zibanejad and Panarin up. Zibanejad and Panarin themselves are responsible for that.

A lot of hyperbole here.

 

[Boris Zubov]

People throw this around as if the other 30 organizations are trash.

That's a bit disingenuous. Nobody thinks there's only 1 franchise that is head & shoulders above the others. But if you compare the Rangers, Habs, Leafs, & now Vegas to teams like Ottawa, Arizona, Florida there's a huge difference in the amenities & facilities these guys are provided.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

In your opinion, what is a substantial raise for him?



Panarin is an outstanding player. I have not seen a Ranger with the ice vision and passing that he possesses since Gretzky — and that includes Jagr. But he's having his best season, by any measurement (currently 8 points clear of his previous career high — in 69 games). Career highs in goals and assists. Whether you want to accept it or not, Strome has played a large part in it. Sure Panarin makes Strome better, but Strome on some level, Strome has made Panarin even better. And we have seen many instances with a good player either can't make another player better (Nash and Richards, Gomez/Drury and Jagr).



Anything under $6M for 60+ player is a hell of a deal. That would be more protection for less than what they gave Stepan.



A lot of hyperbole here.

5.5-6.5 a year. For a guy who is unlikely to come close to this years production again, I'd say thats a pretty big overpayment. Stepan had a years of mid to high 50 point seasons while being an outstanding defensive player under his belt. Strome has exactly 2 50 or more point seasons (this one and his sophomore season)and Stepan never played with Panarin or anyone like him.

Would you pay 6 a year for a 40-45 point center? I wouldn't.

Panarin's uptick in scoring has more to do with the larger amount of secondary assists hes accumulated this year (which isn't something that necessarily carries over year to year) and playing on a MUCH better PP. Not to mention scoring is up around the league in general.

Zibanejad and Panarin are the best players on this team and the obvious ring leaders on their lines. How is this hyperbole? Zibanejad gets more help with who he plays with sure, but that doesn't change anything else I've said.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

none of those factors have anything to do with math and the cop...no one should be against keeping strome at the right cap hit. but reality is that if he puts up another 70+ point season he will get more as a ufa than we can afford to pay him. you'd have to lock him up this offseason for multiple years but we have zero space so the math is tough

We have 14.4 million to sign DeAngelo, Strome, Lemieux, Georgiev(if we keep him) and Fast(likely cap casualty). If DeAngelo and Strome fight over 10-11 mill there is plenty of space to sign Lemieux and Georgiev if we keep him.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

5.5-6.5 a year. For a guy who is unlikely to come close to this years production again, I'd say thats a pretty big overpayment..

What is this based on? All Strome has done is play the most productive hockey of his career here.

Would you pay 6 a year for a 40-45 point center? I wouldn't.

What has he shown you here that he is a 40-45 point center?

Panarin's uptick in scoring has more to do with the larger amount of secondary assists hes accumulated this year (which isn't something that necessarily carries over year to year) and playing on a MUCH better PP. Not to mention scoring is up around the league in general..

OK. But that doesn't address my point. Panarin's season has little to do with Strome?

Zibanejad and Panarin are the best players on this team and the obvious ring leaders on their lines. How is this hyperbole? Zibanejad gets more help with who he plays with sure, but that doesn't change anything else I've said.

Panarin and Strome, no matter how much you want to minimize it, have chemistry. And Strome has figured out how to play with him. That has allowed the teams to split their top two offensive players, deepen the roster and become much more effective and better.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Panarin would still be an 80-90 point guy with out Strome. I wouldn't get too hung up on this year's numbers, unless league scoring continues to go up, we've likely seen the best of Panarin production wise.

It's not about replacing a guy with an ELC just because, but not tying ourselves into another substantial contract for a player who you could get a decent return for and is very unlikely to replicate the production he just put up.

The thing is that before coming here Panarin made it known he wanted to play with Zibanajad. Zibanajad's injury gave him time with Strome, it worked and it would seem that Panarin liked playing with him since he didn't end up back with Zib when he returned it finally gave is 2 scoring lines, a 1a and 1b. Not everyone can play with Panarin, he needs to be able to give and go with someone and get the puck in certain areas for success. Fast's point totals are proof that not anyone will get 70 points with Panarin. Fact is BOTH Strome AND Panarin had career years playing with each other, ignoring that is only furthering some sort of dislike for Strome. Considering he played with Patrick Kane to start his career shows how well Strome and him play together when this is his best year to date. The Strome hate is silly.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

What is this based on? All Strome has done is play the most productive hockey of his career here.

Thats great, but it's also one season. Jiri Hudler put up a 76 point seasons ago and is out of the league now. Nick Foligno had a 70+ point season and hasn't sniffed those totals since. f***ing David Clarkson had a 30 goal year.

You do realize that this is almost certainly the outlier for Strome and not the norm right?

What has he shown you here that he is a 40-45 point center?

Um, the rest of his career? Are we really going to ignore the majority of the time he's spent in the league? Including the 60+ games he played here last season?

OK. But that doesn't address my point. Panarin's season has little to do with Strome?

I've been of the opinion that Panarin would have produced with out Strome.

Panarin and Strome, no matter how much you want to minimize it, have chemistry. And Strome has figured out how to play with him. That has allowed the teams to split their top two offensive players, deepen the roster and become much more effective and better.

Strome didn't completely tank his numbers which I've said before, is something that he should get credit for because there are players who are bad enough to do that. Strome doesn't need to be here in order to separate Zibanejad and Panarin though, those guys existing is enough to do that.

 

[Fitzy]

If I'm in Strome's shoes, I want a one year arbitration deal to take me to UFA.

The market isn't good for a long term contract right now, and there's a solid chance he will be playing with Panarin again next season.

 

[kovazub94]

I expect a lot of players to take short term deals if the market is as flat as predicted.

Could also see some Russian players like Dadonov going back to the KHL if there is a team there willing to pay more than the NHL market is offering.

KHL has instituted a hard cap so I don’t think this option will be as lucrative (read viable) as it used to be.

 

[East Coast Bias]

If DeAngelo and Strome fight over 10-11 mill

I'm not confident in DeAngelo being this team player willing to accept what Strome leaves for him like everyone seems to be. I think that's going to be a real interesting negotiation.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

What is substantial? $5m sounds like smart business. If you are implying more,I have stated multiple times reasons that I do not see Strome doing that.

No one is denying what Panarin is. And no one is creating a "Strome effect". But to presume that in a year where Panarin was set to break all of his personal marks, that Strome has had zero point zero to do with it seems disingenuous at a bare minimum. So if you are going to continue to point out that he has produced with everyone, it then becomes important to point out that he has produced his best lifetime numbers with Strome. That is just as valid a point as pointing out his prior production.

To presume that basically any third line player can step in and 1) morph into a 70 point player and 2) help Panarin achieve numbers that he has previously not had is a pretty big risk. And not one that I would take. So yeah, I would take him at $5m for 2-4 years and I would also resign DeAngelo which means that when the musical chairs stop, there is probably not room for Buch.

Right. All one needs to do is simply skate around on the ice and fling pucks to Panarin's side of the ice and all will be magical. Becoming a 70 point player, having amazing chemistry with your top player and certainly factoring into his scoring is a factor in not needing to put ZBad and Panarin together.

I missed this post before I waded in.

People want to knock Strome for what he's done everywhere but here. As a Ranger he has been a very good player. Now I know that we're not used to players coming here and thriving hisorically, but it happened. And you can make an argument that Strome is overachieving, but he was also a fifth overall pick who was a very productive player in OHL. But most of all, even if you want to chalk up all his success to Panarin and ignore that Panarin is have the best season of his career, he's also not going anywhere. Meaning if Strome is a product of Panarin, fine — Panarin will be here.

 

[True Blue]

But most of all, even if you want to chalk up all his success to Panarin and ignore that Panarin is have the best season of his career, he's also not going anywhere. Meaning if Strome is a product of Panarin, fine — Panarin will be here.

I think that a part of the dogma for the anti-Strome crowd is that their axiom starts and ends with if you subtract Strome and insert most any other third line center in the league (or even a Chytil) than the results (both for Panarin and player X) will largely be the same as if it player X was Strome. Which to me is quite a bit of wish casting and becoming dependent on a situation that may produce 1) worse results or 2) much worse results if it is just not working and Player X is sinking and now you need to separate Kreider and ZBad.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think that a part of the dogma for the anti-Strome crowd is that their axiom starts and ends with if you subtract Strome and insert most any other third line center in the league (or even a Chytil) than the results (both for Panarin and player X) will largely be the same as if it player X was Strome. Which to me is quite a bit of wish casting and becoming dependent on a situation that may produce 1) worse results or 2) much worse results if it is just not working and Player X is sinking and now you need to separate Kreider and ZBad.

People love to knock what Strome did before he got here. But those numbers and production that some are all too happy to malign are still better than anything Chytil has done. And Chytil could replicate Strome's numbers playing with Panarin, but we don't know for sure. We have an idea with Strome.

 

[Thirty One]

Arbitration walk away rights started at awards more than $4,397,832 last year. Should be fine for Strome, but I imagine there will be a lot of RFA that won't be qualified around the league.

 

[Rangers in 7]

People love to knock what Strome did before he got here. But those numbers and production that some are all too happy to malign are still better than anything Chytil has done. And Chytil could replicate Strome's numbers playing with Panarin, but we don't know for sure. We have an idea with Strome.

saying its better then anything chytil has done is a little ridiculous though....hes 20, strome is 27...