Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIV

[Good Intentions]

Carp also said something very telling (or maybe it was to me at least) in the comments of his Athletic article.

Someone was speculating about who the Rangers would protect in the expansion draft: Chytil, Kreider, Ziba, Andersson, Howden, Buchnevich & Lemieux would be your protecteds up front. This person also mentioned finding a spot for Sean Day

This was Carp's response:



Someone then asked Carp to predict the opening day roster

Very telling? There is nothing of substance here.

 

[bobbop]

Right time to trade him is now, coming off a career season and still has 3 years left on a great contract. Doesn't fit the timeline, and could probably move him to Colorado for Turcotte/Zegras who will.

What kind of team are you going to run out there? Getting beat every night is no way to nurture a young group.

You don’t understand the culture part of rebuilding.

 

[bobbop]

Brooks definitely alluded to Buchnevich being shopped as well.

There’s something going on here.

Reminds me a little of the behind the curtain issues with Zubov.

Hockey trade coming?

 

[Ola]

A name I haven’t heard brought up on these boards yet is Alex Wennberg.what do you guys think of him? His value is low right now and I feel rangers could get him cheap. He’s still young and worth the gamble I think. I would consider swapping pionk for him straight up.

Got a close look at him at the WCHs and also paid a little special attention on it against the background of his situation in Columbus.

His vision and playmaking ability is really good. He is also slippery with the puck and agile on his skate. When you move the puck around, Wennberg always add quality to the puck touches he has. He can stickhandle and buy himself time, finds lanes not everyone would see and so forth. He also works hard without the puck and is good at the FO dot etc.

Big issue is skating. Ugly stride. Really no speed whatsoever.

Early in my viewing of him at the WCH I was like, can’t you make this guy work in the NHL? When he is in the middle of things he is just good. Very good. But I think it’s hard. I think CBJ overplayed their hands betting on him like they did with that contract. When you want the center to bail you out — he can’t get it done.

It’s so typical in Torts system. They are so extremely consistent in how they play and it don’t involved the center carrying the puck up ice. Wennberg weren’t exposed, played on a good line with the puck a lot down low. But that style won’t work against the better teams, and when you want Wennberg to step up and carry things himself and bail you out — like a center should be able to do — he is just ECHL level skating with the puck up ice.

Technically, and not in tight quarters so to speak, Wennberg is probably among the worst skating forwards in the league. Training is usually so good nowadays that you can work out many flaws.

 

[McRanger]

Production isn't a question with Buchnevich. Give him ice time and he can put up 2nd line numbers in his sleep.

The question with Buch is whether he fits into Quinn's plans and gets that ice time.

If he doesn't he should be traded while he still has some value.

 

[Off Sides]

So Mika becomes UFA but decides he wants to stay. He'd be 29. What sort of contract do you give him? He'll get 6-7 years on the market. Do you want to pay top dollar to Ziba on a contract that takes him to 35-36. I sure as hell don't.

I don't know, I think by that point it will depend on what happens in the three years between now and then.

If the Rangers feel he still has game left, and they are on the up swing, maybe he would want to stay and take a little less to do so in term, maybe on cap hit too.

Maybe the CBA changes up how contracts can be structured by then too?

Yet that idea certainly flys out the window should they be carrying some other player who is even a little older who is making 11M and still signed for 3 or 4 more years.

 

[Levitate]

There’s something going on here.

Reminds me a little of the behind the curtain issues with Zubov.

Hockey trade coming?

Wasn't the issue with Zubov that Messier didn't like him?

Seems like most of the young leaders on the team like Buchnevich. I think some of the ideas of trading him are more wishful thinking because he's an "enigmatic" player who hasn't quite put it together consistently

 

[Ola]

On Buch, one thing I like about David Quinn is that he has the college approach to developing kids. I am not super familiar with US college hockey, but I am at least under the impression that you are stuck with what you have to a large extent. You get like what 6-7 guys in the off-season and can use them for 4 years, each off-season you get a new shot at picking players. But to a large extent you have to work with what you have. Right? Correct me if I am wrong.

With Buch I just see a perfectly OK player. In fact, its very easy to lose perspective on how far along he is already. He was on pace for 50 pts last season on a pretty crappy team, not that many players get to that level in their career.

In addition, I also see a lot of growth potential in him. I don't think he plays as smart as he is capable of doing. I don't think his attitude is as good as it can be. I don't think he is in as good shape as he can be. And, I also think that he is a kid who has his heart at the right place. I wouldn't at all be surprised if he could end up having some really good seasons in the NHL. 70 pts? Hence why I also think its unfortunate if he isn't locked up long term, because you just know that if we bridge him he will have that monster year at a bad time and you will lose him for nothing or as a rental.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think Kreider is probably a goner.

Buch to me, is probably more of a wait and see. The Rangers are going to be looking for scorers. If they feel Buch can pick up where he left off late last season, and hit that 25 goal, 55 point, they'll want to hang onto him --- or at least see if they can sell higher.

Moving Kreider makes the most sense as we have discussed for a while. Not only is he not going to be the right age when this team moves into its next phase, he will require a long term contract AND he has significant value right now around the league.

 

[Zibanejbread]

There’s something going on here.

Reminds me a little of the behind the curtain issues with Zubov.

Hockey trade coming?

Any targets in mind for a Buch hockey trade?

 

[Edge]

Wasn't the issue with Zubov that Messier didn't like him?

Seems like most of the young leaders on the team like Buchnevich. I think some of the ideas of trading him are more wishful thinking because he's an "enigmatic" player who hasn't quite put it together consistently

Zubov's primary issues at the time tended to be with coaches. His conditioning was suspect and had some issues with nervousness that led into chain smoking.

 

[Levitate]

On Buch, one thing I like about David Quinn is that he has the college approach to developing kids. I am not super familiar with US college hockey, but I am at least under the impression that you are stuck with what you have to a large extent. You get like what 6-7 guys in the off-season and can use them for 4 years, each off-season you get a new shot at picking players. But to a large extent you have to work with what you have. Right? Correct me if I am wrong.

With Buch I just see a perfectly OK player. In fact, its very easy to lose perspective on how far along he is already. He was on pace for 50 pts last season on a pretty crappy team, not that many players get to that level in their career.

In addition, I also see a lot of growth potential in him. I don't think he plays as smart as he is capable of doing. I don't think his attitude is as good as it can be. I don't think he is in as good shape as he can be. And, I also think that he is a kid who has his heart at the right place. I wouldn't at all be surprised if he could end up having some really good seasons in the NHL. 70 pts? Hence why I also think its unfortunate if he isn't locked up long term, because you just know that if we bridge him he will have that monster year at a bad time and you will lose him for nothing or as a rental.

Yeah honestly I don't want to see him traded...I think people take for granted how well he could end up putting up points and helping the team. I think he has had some issues with figuring out how to consistently play at the level the coaches want him to but he has literally only 2 full years in the NHL and has always scored at a 40-50 point pace. I think trading him would be folly but people like to look for little things they think are signs like how Quinn benched him at times and tried to draw out more to his game. Suddenly that makes him on the outs and a trade target, while realistically he is EXACTLY the type of player the Rangers should be holding onto and trying to develop.

I find it exceedingly unlikely that the Rangers will find a trade that results in a player that is his equal offensively or a draft pick that has a likelyhood of resulting in a player as good as he is. Just a very poor time to be trading him.

e: If a "hockey trade" with Buchnevich is trading him for someone like Lemieux then that's a bad hockey trade. Nothing against Lemieux as a player (yet) but he does not have the potential and ability that Buchnevich does. Downgrading your top six to acquire more grinders is silly.

 

[JimmyG89]

We know teams are looking at getting some wingers and on the cheap, depending on the team. There are quite a few teams in a cap bind. Toronto, Winnipeg, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Vegas, Edmonton, Calgary.

Buchnevich presents an interesting player for those type of teams. He has the talent to play in the top 6. His production is that of a top 6 winger. The Rangers could easily keep him. His salary on a 4-5 year deal might be around 4-4.5 per season. A bridge deal? Significantly cheaper. Teams that are looking at needing to sign big RFAs that have some players under contract already.

I'm sure Winnipeg isn't happy Ehlers has played as many playoff games as he has had and has 0 goals. 6 million locked into him. How much do Connor and Laine need? Trouba is still there too. If they move him out, what type of salary is coming in or who do they have ideas on signing? They cannot lose Myers and Trouba while not upgrading their defense. Will Winnipeg be a cap team? There is a lot to unpack there. Ehlers being on the market would not shock me.

Does Winnipeg think they could get similar production from Buch on their team as Ehlers gives for less? We'd be adding for sure, but a Buch+ for Ehlers deal work? It allows them to commit more money to Laine and Connor. With our interest in Trouba, you wonder if that deal could become massive, but there are a lot of ways that can go.

 

[Ola]

Lev- Exactly, and I was cut a bit short since I had to hop off a train, but I also intended to say that DQ is exactly the type of coach who could get the best result out of someone like Buch with his ‘I have to work with what I have’ approach from College.

Many coaches would be less patient and maybe try to force Buch to become something that he is not — since they are used to getting someone else that can do that job if it doesn’t work out.

And especially with guys like Buch, I think the upside — if he so to speak peaks within all his limits — often is much higher than we imagine. It’s the downside with pro-sports, it’s not about optimizing all assets, it’s about winning now. Well we have time now, everyone is different but I think DQ is a good fit for Buch, so I would definitely not mind seeing is betting long-term this n Buch. It would quite frankly surprise me — a lot — if Buch ever played worse than he have up to this point during the remaining years he has in his 20s. I just more or less in all areas see growth potential.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Brooks definitely alluded to Buchnevich being shopped as well.

Brooks also said Stepan wouldn't be traded literally hours before he was traded

 

[Ola]

If you sign Buchnevich to a 6 year deal today — you get all his prime years. The first 4 of those years cannot include a NTC/NMC clause. You are paying him against the background of his production, 40-50 pts. 4.5m per?

Is he worth that? What I think don’t matter. I don’t know Buch. I can’t call up any of our 4 assistant coaches and ask them about their thoughts on Buch, how he is off the ice. I cannot chat with Quinn about Buch. I cannot talk with Ruff or Brown or any of the other guys about him. I cannot summon Ramsey and tell him to show Buch’s progress the last off-seasons, how much he has invested in the off season, what his growth potential might be. But Gorton can.

Gorton must be able to make that call. He can’t give him 2 years and then sit their with regrets in 2 years when Buch is coming off a 70 pts season.

 

[Off Sides]

Seeing if Buch elects arbitration or not will tell an important part of the story.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

If you sign Buchnevich to a 6 year deal today — you get all his prime years. The first 4 of those years cannot include a NTC/NMC clause. You are paying him against the background of his production, 40-50 pts. 4.5m per?

Is he worth that? What I think don’t matter. I don’t know Buch. I can’t call up any of our 4 assistant coaches and ask them about their thoughts on Buch, how he is off the ice. I cannot chat with Quinn about Buch. I cannot talk with Ruff or Brown or any of the other guys about him. I cannot summon Ramsey and tell him to show Buch’s progress the last off-seasons, how much he has invested in the off season, what his growth potential might be. But Gorton can.

Gorton must be able to make that call. He can’t give him 2 years and then sit their with regrets in 2 years when Buch is coming off a 70 pts season.

I mean you could say that about any player due a new contract.

But what have you seen in his game that leads you to believe he can become a 70pt player? Seems like a bit of a stretch, no?

 

[Thirty One]

Brooks also said Stepan wouldn't be traded literally hours before he was traded

OK, but I'm still not ready to treat everything he says like the words of an eight year old on opposite day.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Very telling? There is nothing of substance here.

Repeating twice that he is unsure of Kreider and Buchnevich future on the team is nothing of substance? Okay.

There’s something going on here.

Reminds me a little of the behind the curtain issues with Zubov.

Hockey trade coming?

It wouldn't surprise me.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I really hope we don’t trade Buch. I don’t think now is an ideal time to move him

 

[Off Sides]

Unless some team is signing him upon trade, and offering the Rangers back what he on that contract would be worth, I would not worry about him being traded.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Carp also said something very telling (or maybe it was to me at least) in the comments of his Athletic article.

Someone was speculating about who the Rangers would protect in the expansion draft: Chytil, Kreider, Ziba, Andersson, Howden, Buchnevich & Lemieux would be your protecteds up front. This person also mentioned finding a spot for Sean Day

This was Carp's response:



Someone then asked Carp to predict the opening day roster

Only way I see Buch going out the door this summer is for a top-10 pick or in a deal for a young building block on D. No reason to move him otherwise.

I keep getting a feeling that buch is going to Edmonton for 8. Maybe with a defenseman, bring back 8, and cap dumps. Kassian, Manning and/or spooner. Spooner would actually be more valuable back here to get rid of that salary retention slot.

 

[Kupo]

I keep getting a feeling that buch is going to Edmonton for 8. Maybe with a defenseman, bring back 8, and cap dumps. Kassian, Manning and/or spooner. Spooner would actually be more valuable back here to get rid of that salary retention slot.

I was under the impression we cannot trade for Spooner since we retained on him when with our trade last year?

 

[Gardner McKay]

I keep getting a feeling that buch is going to Edmonton for 8. Maybe with a defenseman, bring back 8, and cap dumps. Kassian, Manning and/or spooner. Spooner would actually be more valuable back here to get rid of that salary retention slot.

Oh man. I'd be over the moon as long as that cap dump isn't Lucic.

Pionk + Buch for 8 + Kassian. That kind of deal definitely favors us, no doubt about it. Still. Would be nice

I really hope we don’t trade Buch. I don’t think now is an ideal time to move him

If the right deal comes our way, I think you absolutely consider it. I don't think we should actively be shopping him though.