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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIV

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DanielBrassard said:
Does this take into account the cap increase? Nope. Assume 3.5 for Buch, 2.5 for ADA, 1M for Lemieux that's 7M. Cap increase should cover Pionk, but he shouldn't be here anyway.
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This assumes a 83 million dollar cap.

Under RGY's scenario, I added Buch at 3.5, ADA at 2 and Lemieux at 1.75 while subtracting Vesey, Namesnikov, Fast (with out taking money back) and not resigning Pionk and Claesson (Plus Kravstov and Kakko at 925,000.) Panarin was added at 11m.

If you add Callahan to that group, it leaves you with a little bit over 1m in space. Forget Hagelin, even Pionk wouldn't be possible in that scenario (though I agree that he should go.)

You'd likely have to either trade someone else or buy someone out. I mean it's doable, but it isn't easy and would require a ton of moving parts and massive roster turnover, which isn't much of an issue since our team sucks, but you rarely see that much of an upheaval from one team in an offseason.

One thing for sure is that if Panarin comes in, Kreider cannot under any circumstances stay.
 
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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
This assumes a 83 million dollar cap.

Under RGY's scenario, I added Buch at 3.5, ADA at 2 and Lemieux at 1.75 while subtracting Vesey, Namesnikov, Fast (with out taking money back) and not resigning Pionk and Claesson (Plus Kravstov and Kakko at 925,000.) Panarin was added at 11m.

If you add Callahan to that group, it leaves you with a little bit over 1m in space. Forget Hagelin, even Pionk wouldn't be possible in that scenario (though I agree that he should go.)

You'd likely have to either trade someone else or buy someone out. I mean it's doable, but it isn't easy and would require a ton of moving parts and massive roster turnover, which isn't much of an issue since our team sucks, but you rarely see that much of an upheaval from one team in an offseason.

One thing for sure is that if Panarin comes in, Kreider cannot under any circumstances stay.
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I don't think it's very likely that if we get Panarin they also take on Callahan's contract, but who knows. Could also trade Beleskey to create 825 thousand in cap room, and buy someone out. Or trade Shattenkirk and keep Pionk.
 
DanielBrassard said:
I don't think it's very likely that if we get Panarin they also take on Callahan's contract, but who knows. Could also trade Beleskey to create 825 thousand in cap room, and buy someone out. Or trade Shattenkirk and keep Pionk.
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Yeah it's really a one or the other thing unless you want to get really crazy, which is just unnecessary right now.

I like the idea of poaching a quality player off of a team in cap trouble much more than going the UFA route. Getting a player on your timeline who doesn't break the bank would be a massive win for this team.
 
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True Blue said:
Why do the Rangers NEED to sign a big UFA in two years? Or am I misunderstanding you?

If there is something that we have seen, players become available. Via fre agency or trade.
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Man, that's the real question.

I really hate dredging up the topic again, but the lack of big free agents on winners is too consistent to ignore. I understand the love for "free" talent, the fact that trades hurt, drafting is a crapshoot, but the winners are built through trades and drafting. The exception is when the core is in place and the free agent is a need that puts them over the top.

Its novel for ranger fans, but laying off free agents may just be our path to success. Panarin is definitely the top talent slated for UFA over the next 3 summers, but we don't have to snag the top player on the market.
 
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As fans we're basically in a waiting pattern the next few weeks. These guys we keep proposing to trade like Namestnikov/Vesey don't have much value.

A lot depends on what the Penguins do with Kessel.
 
The combine with likely dictate how hard JG will try to move up from 20. In an ideal world a handful of teams will go off the board along with Spencer Knight in the top 15, mitigating the need to move up and grab another top forward.

I hope we lay off any big contracts but feel the rangers won't be able to resist going after EK. Hoping any cap dump we take on is 2 years or less in length.

Been a great off season so far. Keep it going JG!
 
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DutchShamrock said:
Man, that's the real question.

I really hate dredging up the topic again, but the lack of big free agents on winners is too consistent to ignore. I understand the love for "free" talent, the fact that trades hurt, drafting is a crapshoot, but the winners are built through trades and drafting. The exception is when the core is in place and the free agent is a need that puts them over the top.

Its novel for ranger fans, but laying off free agents may just be our path to success. Panarin is definitely the top talent slated for UFA over the next 3 summers, but we don't have to snag the top player on the market.
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The lack of free agents on winners? Many winners have had a big UFA signing in the mix.

I guess it depends on your definition of big. Though I also don’t make a distinction between UFAs and trade acquisitions. It’s a meaningless distinction.
 
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Tawnos said:
The lack of free agents on winners? Many winners have had a big UFA signing in the mix.

I guess it depends on your definition of big. Though I also don’t make a distinction between UFAs and trade acquisitions. It’s a meaningless distinction.
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Really just Chicago and Boston and even then Hossa was a 4th wheel behind Kane, Towes and Keith. Cup winner 1 did also have Brian Campbell on it who was an expensive UFA.

Pittsburgh was Crosby-Malkin-Letang. Hornqvist, Kessel were traded for along with other depth pieces like Hagelin, Dumolin, Cole, Hagelin, etc.

LA won behind Kopitar, Doughty and Quick. Brown (home grown) was a beast in their first run too. Williams, Carter and Richards were all acquired via trade. Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure their biggest UFA signing was Willie Mitchell who was important, but not that important.

Washington's big UFA signing was Niskanen. But still the core of their team? OV-Backstrom-Kuznetzov-Carlson, all draft picks of the Caps. Oshie was acquired by trade, Eller was acquired via trade, Wilson, Vrana, Burakovsky, Orlov were all Caps picks.

I mean there is Boston in 2011, but even that team was largely home grown with out a ton of UFA help. Chara was obviously a big UFA signing and a huge part of that team, so yeah you got the Bruins.
 
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So it turns out Kessel vetoed that rumored swap to Minnesota for Zucker. Can't blame him in the slightest bit either as he'd be the big loser in that trade. Not the least bit surprising.
 
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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Really just Chicago and Boston and even then Hossa was a 4th wheel behind Kane, Towes and Keith. Cup winner 1 did also have Brian Campbell on it who was an expensive UFA.

Pittsburgh was Crosby-Malkin-Letang. Hornqvist, Kessel were traded for along with other depth pieces like Hagelin, Dumolin, Cole, Hagelin, etc.

LA won behind Kopitar, Doughty and Quick. Brown (home grown) was a beast in their first run too. Williams, Carter and Richards were all acquired via trade. Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure their biggest UFA signing was Willie Mitchell who was important, but not that important.

Washington's big UFA signing was Niskanen. But still the core of their team? OV-Backstrom-Kuznetzov-Carlson, all draft picks of the Caps. Oshie was acquired by trade, Eller was acquired via trade, Wilson, Vrana, Burakovsky, Orlov were all Caps picks.

I mean there is Boston in 2011, but even that team was largely home grown with out a ton of UFA help. Chara was obviously a big UFA signing and a huge part of that team, so yeah you got the Bruins.
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If you look at the last 10 Cups, you’ve got Pittsburgh with Gonchar, the Chicago thrice with Hossa (who was not 4th fiddle, gimme a break) and Boston with Chara. Fully 50% of the last 10 Cups have been won with a core UFA.

That qualifies as many.
 
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Tawnos said:
If you look at the last 10 Cups, you’ve got Pittsburgh with Gonchar, the Chicago thrice with Hossa (who was not 4th fiddle, gimme a break) and Boston with Chara. Fully 50% of the last 10 Cups have been won with a core UFA.

That qualifies as many.
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How many of those teams added the ufa before the foundation of the team was in place?
 
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Tawnos said:
If you look at the last 10 Cups, you’ve got Pittsburgh with Gonchar, the Chicago thrice with Hossa (who was not 4th fiddle, gimme a break) and Boston with Chara. Fully 50% of the last 10 Cups have been won with a core UFA.

That qualifies as many.
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Um, he 100000% was 4th fiddle.

The other 3 each won a Conn Smythe.

in 2009, Hossa was 7th in playoff scoring amongst his teammates.
in 2013 he was 4th
4th again in 2015.

I mean thats a product of being on a team that good and legit has at least 3 hall of famers on it (including himself) but he was never the best player or even 2nd best player during any of their runs. He was important, but not integral.

Chara is the only one who has been.
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Um, he 100000% was 4th fiddle.

The other 3 each won a Conn Smythe.

in 2009, Hossa was 7th in playoff scoring amongst his teammates.
in 2013 he was 4th
4th again in 2015.

I mean thats a product of being on a team that good and legit has at least 3 hall of famers on it (including himself) but he was never the best player or even 2nd best player during any of their runs. He was important, but not integral.

Chara is the only one who has been.
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Being 4th in a core of 4 isn’t the same as being 4th fiddle.
 
So while a few posters have revealed their guilty pleasure trade target to be Milan Lucic, I want to support them by throwing out a name I can’t help myself from gleaning at from time to time: Tyler Myers

Seriously though, if Gorton could just make Shatty and Smith disappear and get decent value for Pionk — Myers wouldn’t compliment TDA and Fox poorly. He is the same age as Chara was when Boston signed him. Would help our lack of size situation on the blueline a lot.

But I get it, not another vet D. Not that I don’t agree with that. But...
 
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Riche16 said:
Again, Pitt had Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury...

We have???? Hank? Zbad? Right now... that’s a BIG ASS FUDGING
DIFFERENCE

I mean u can want Panarin and say so but stop making urself look foolish
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Zbad, Kakko, Kravstov.

That trio may end up being phenomenal, but its hardly the sure thing that Crosby and Malkin were.

Boston is a decent example if you want to point to one, but they're the outlier and honestly, they got pretty lucky hitting on guys in the later rounds (and during their 2011 run all together, a healthy Vancouver team sweeps them.)
 
How about since it seems like our center depth is weak besides zibs, that after the draft and we get kakko, that we go after a young center like duchene instead of panarin. I'd like to have panarin but our wing is going to be full of top 6 players and we dont have a 2nd line center. He is 27yo and can be had for less money than panarin.

Thoughts
 
Chalfdiggity3 said:
How about since it seems like our center depth is weak besides zibs, that after the draft and we get kakko, that we go after a young center like duchene instead of panarin. I'd like to have panarin but our wing is going to be full of top 6 players and we dont have a 2nd line center. He is 27yo and can be had for less money than panarin.

Thoughts
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No.

He's going to be overpaid after a solid playoff and season. I'd rather give our young guys a shot to grow into that role.
 
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