Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIV

[Chalfdiggity3]

No.

He's going to be overpaid after a solid playoff and season. I'd rather give our young guys a shot to grow into that role.

So do I but what young guy do we have will grow into that role? Chytl is more suited for wing, kratsov wing, howden? Anderson? We are razor thin at center and unless we get trade to get another top 10 pick like zegras or trade for a William nylander, I don't see a 1st or 2nd line center in the group.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So do I but what young guy do we have will grow into that role? Chytl is more suited for wing, kratsov wing, howden? Anderson? We are razor thin at center and unless we get trade to get another top 10 pick like zegras or trade for a William nylander, I don't see a 1st or 2nd line center in the group.

Yeah let Chytil get another crack at it and see what Howden and Lias can give you.

I too want to see them trade into a spot to get Zegras or Newhook. Nylander is as much of a center as Chytil is (though I'd still love to have him.)

 

[NYR Viper]

Would anyone be opposed to something like:

Callahan + TB 3rd 19 + TB 2nd 20 for Namestnikov @$2m?

Shattenkirk @$4.5m cap hit for Colin Miller + David Clarkson’s contract

Colin Miller + Jesper Fast for Andreas Johansson + Patrick Marleau + TOR 1st ‘20 + Nathan Horton’s contract
-Rangers buy out Marleau

Brendan Smith for Val Nichuskin + Martin Hanzal
-Rangers waive Nichuskin to start the year and loan him to KHL team

Chris Kreider for ARI 1st + Lawson Crouse


Buch-Zib-Kakko
Johansson-Strome-Kravtsov
Lemieux-Chytil-Andersson
Crouse-Nieves-Callahan
Lettieri

Skjei-ADA
Staal-Pionk
Hajek/Lindgren/Rykov-PETROVIC
Claesson

 

[redwhiteandblue]

I think Duchene re-signs in Columbus. Just a gut feeling. I’d like to see Kravtsov at some point after establishing himself get a shot if it makes sense. I would definitely let Chytil get himself going this year and then experiment with giving him a 20 game audition at 2C starting in the middle point of the year. If that burns to the ground, I’d honestly give Howden and Andersson a shot at rotating between the 2C/3C spot for 12-15 games and see if anything promising shakes from it.

 

[Trxjw]

The Lightning aren't tacking Cernak on to Callahan to move him. He was a horse down the stretch and in the Jackets series. If anything they want to keep him to ice as the other top-4 RD with Karlsson if they can sign him. If you can get a good prospect tacked onto Callahan you gotta be happy with it.

These two deals line up favorably for the Rangers:

1. Bickell and Teravainen returned a 2nd (#50) and a 3rd round pick in 2017.
2. Bolland and Crouse returned a 2017 3rd and 2018 2nd rounder.

Both prospects were former 1st round picks which would certainly be a nice addition, but Bickell was much worse at the time of the trade than Callahan is now, and Bolland was a dead space contract with 3 years left.

The one guy who might be available, if the Lightning are really confident that they can sign Karlsson, is Sergachev. There wouldn't be much time for him on the bottom pairing with that top-4 playing 50 minutes a night and eating all of the PP minutes. Additionally they'd have too many D to protect in expansion. If the Rangers are going to help the Lightning sign Karlsson by freeing up cap space and taking themselves out of the running for him, as unrealistic as us signing him is, they should demand a very good young player in return.

In fact, the Lightning need to move Callahan and one of Miller or Gourde with almost no money coming back in order to have enough cap space to make it all work. That's a tall order.

 

[NYRKING30]

So while a few posters have revealed their guilty pleasure trade target to be Milan Lucic, I want to support them by throwing out a name I can’t help myself from gleaning at from time to time: Tyler Myers

Seriously though, if Gorton could just make Shatty and Smith disappear and get decent value for Pionk — Myers wouldn’t compliment TDA and Fox poorly. He is the same age as Chara was when Boston signed him. Would help our lack of size situation on the blueline a lot.

But I get it, not another vet D. Not that I don’t agree with that. But...

I second this, we badly could use size like that on our blue line. I don't even think his contract demands/terms will be that bad.

 

[LORDE]

Zbad, Kakko, Kravstov.

That trio may end up being phenomenal, but its hardly the sure thing that Crosby and Malkin were.

Boston is a decent example if you want to point to one, but they're the outlier and honestly, they got pretty lucky hitting on guys in the later rounds (and during their 2011 run all together, a healthy Vancouver team sweeps them.)

Of course I Hope as all of us do that Kakko and Kravtsov have HALF the career of Cindy but that’s so far from expectation that it’s a cartoon.

In the immortal words of Jules Winfield “ain’t no F-ING ballpark neither”

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Yeah let Chytil get another crack at it and see what Howden and Lias can give you.

I too want to see them trade into a spot to get Zegras or Newhook. Nylander is as much of a center as Chytil is (though I'd still love to have him.)

I just don't see it but what better way for him to learn than in a 3rd line center role. I feel like putting him in a 2nd line centering position is to much for him. Lias I see as a great 3rd line center. Howden can be more but just dont see how they can take the 2nd line role. Signing duchene for 4-5 years at 7aav. Gives them room to grow in suitable roles and being able to trade duchene when they are ready is not a bad thing or slot duchene down.

Nylander can still be a good center at 22 and fits our re build.

 

[Tawnos]

Again, Pitt had Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Fleury...

We have???? Hank? Zbad? Right now... that’s a BIG ASS FUDGING
DIFFERENCE

I mean u can want Panarin and say so but stop making urself look foolish

Ignoring your childishness for the moment...

... as I’ve said I believe the only way to operate the team is as if the youth will develop as planned. Which, by the way, is exactly what the Penguins did in that situation. Also, you can say what you want with Crosby and Malkin, but don’t pretend in 2005 they knew for sure what they had in Fleury and, especially, Letang who they had just taken in the 3rd round.

While the Penguins had more top-5 picks (Crosby was their 4th in a row, and they’d have a 5th in 2006), the Rangers rebuild will be comparably deep after this draft when comparing with the the Penguins in the summer of 05. We have the top-end goalie prospect. We have the top-end D prospect (and as it was, Whitney busted). We have the secondary scoring prospects and other quality prospects on the back end. It’s not as different as you think. The exception (and yes it’s a big one) is a 2nd obvious franchise forward prospect, but it should be pointed out that signing Gonchar didn’t stop the Penguins from getting another top-2 pick.

I know you believe in waiting until we know for sure what we have. I don’t. But I’m not sitting here calling you foolish.

And, lastly, I want the Rangers to do the diligence on Panarin and, if they decide not to pursue him, have that be about him as an individual and not some ideological mentality.

 

[LORDE]

Ignoring your childishness for the moment...

... as I’ve said I believe the only way to operate the team is as if the youth will develop as planned. Which, by the way, is exactly what the Penguins did in that situation. Also, you can say what you want with Crosby and Malkin, but don’t pretend in 2005 they knew for sure what they had in Fleury and, especially, Letang who they had just taken in the 3rd round.

While the Penguins had more top-5 picks (Crosby was their 4th in a row, and they’d have a 5th in 2006), the Rangers rebuild will be comparably deep after this draft when comparing with the the Penguins in the summer of 05. We have the top-end goalie prospect. We have the top-end D prospect (and as it was, Whitney busted). We have the secondary scoring prospects and other quality prospects on the back end. It’s not as different as you think. The exception (and yes it’s a big one) is a 2nd obvious franchise forward prospect, but it should be pointed out that signing Gonchar didn’t stop the Penguins from getting another top-2 pick.

I know you believe in waiting until we know for sure what we have. I don’t. But I’m not sitting here calling you foolish.

And, lastly, I want the Rangers to do the diligence on Panarin and, if they decide not to pursue him, have that be about him as an individual and not some ideological mentality.

No u called me childish, I assume because I said fudge since f*** gets censored here... but saying we are comparable to having Crosby and Malkin is FOOLISH and u know it.

We have no one with that firepower yet. Yes, maybe when June 20th comes and goes we might but again which of Hughes or Kakko will u say are on Malkin or Crosby levels???

It’s ridiculous. We had Brendan Smith playing 4th line. We have a lot of hope and promise but NOTHING like pitt.

It’s a joke.

 

[Tawnos]

No u called me childish, I assume because I said fudge since **** gets censored here... but saying we are comparable to having Crosby and Malkin is FOOLISH and u know it.

We have no one with that firepower yet. Yes, maybe when June 20th comes and goes we might but again which of Hughes or Kakko will u say are on Malkin or Crosby levels???

It’s ridiculous. We had Brendan Smith playing 4th line. We have a lot of hope and promise but NOTHING like pitt.

It’s a joke.

No, I said you were childish because of the attempt to hurl insults. That's what children do instead of having a discussion.

Hughes & Kakko are both Malkin-level prospects. Obviously they're not Crosby level, but you don't need generational players to win Cups. Chicago won 3 without a generational player. LA won 2 without a generational player. You need franchise players, which is what Malkin has been. I did say that the big difference between their rebuild and ours is that 2nd franchise player, but at the same time, the Rangers have 2 1st line potential players beyond Kakko/Hughes in Kravtsov and Chytil. The closest the Pens had in 2005 besides the big-2 was Colby Armstrong. There are different aspects to each rebuild, but this Rangers one is no slouch in comparison to the Penguins in 2005.

I have no idea what playing Brendan Smith has to do with anything here. Do you want me to list the awful players the Penguins employed during their rebuild? I'm just going to assume you're drunk since your posts here are bordering on incoherent.

 

[LORDE]

No, I said you were childish because of the attempt to hurl insults. That's what children do instead of having a discussion.

Hughes & Kakko are both Malkin-level prospects. Obviously they're not Crosby level, but you don't need generational players to win Cups. Chicago won 3 without a generational player. LA won 2 without a generational player. You need franchise players, which is what Malkin has been. I did say that the big difference between their rebuild and ours is that 2nd franchise player, but at the same time, the Rangers have 2 1st line potential players beyond Kakko/Hughes in Kravtsov and Chytil. The closest the Pens had in 2005 besides the big-2 was Colby Armstrong. There are different aspects to each rebuild, but this Rangers one is no slouch in comparison to the Penguins in 2005.

I have no idea what playing Brendan Smith has to do with anything here. Do you want me to list the awful players the Penguins employed during their rebuild? I'm just going to assume you're drunk since your posts here are bordering on incoherent.

I don’t think saying ur being foolish is an insult. I think u are.

I wish I were drunk. My point in mentioning Smith is that this rebuild is in the infant stage still and people wanna rush it through because of their lack of patience.

I don’t feel Kakko is Malkin level, u want to say that... that’s fine. I hope he’s that and more.

But comparing the Pens and their prospects and farm at that point to ours right now is wildly optimistic.

Ok? There! Not “foolish” but wildly optimistic. Is that better?

And ya two franchise players would be nice... right now we have one after June 20

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Its very unlikely that either Hughes or Kakko are Malkin level.

Malkin is virtually Crosby level.

 

[Tawnos]

I don’t think saying ur being foolish is an insult. I think u are.

I wish I were drunk. My point in mentioning Smith is that this rebuild is in the infant stage still and people wanna rush it through because of their lack of patience.

I don’t feel Kakko is Malkin level, u want to say that... that’s fine. I hope he’s that and more.

But comparing the Pens and their prospects and farm at that point to ours right now is wildly optimistic.

Ok? There! Not “foolish” but wildly optimistic. Is that better?

And ya two franchise players would be nice... right now we have one after June 20

You realize that their farm at that point, outside of Malkin and Crosby, did not produce a single top-6 forward, right? In fact, the overall failure of the Penguins drafting and development beyond those guys is the central reason they went all those years without Cups and had to mortgage what was left of their future to win the 16 and 17 Cups (which I'm not criticizing those moves, just pointing out they were forced to make them). I don't feel like it's wildly optimistic to think we might do better on those pieces... just regular optimistic.

I don't have a lack of patience. I believe in thinking strategically while being flexible and adaptable to what's out there, rather than rigidly adhering to a sketched up plan made before you knew what was available when. If I were impatient, I'd be talking about signing Karlsson and giving the reasoning that we might not have a 1st pairing RD prospect in the organization, damn his issues. But in Karlsson's case, I'm leery of his injury history. Or I'd be talking about signing Duchene and giving the reasoning that Chytil looks like he might be a winger, damn his issues. But in Duchene's case, I don't quite buy that he's matured enough to be an effective player in the comfort of a long-term deal. Individual reasons for individual players.

Panarin doesn't have the issues those guys have and is an elite talent, which is why I maintain my interest in him. As I've said, I have no problem with the Rangers deciding that they feel he, as an individual, isn't the right fit.

 

[Tawnos]

Its very unlikely that either Hughes or Kakko are Malkin level.

Malkin is virtually Crosby level.

Nah. Malkin is on the same plane of existence as Patrick Kane (which is a pretty high plane of existence), rather than Crosby and Ovechkin.

 

[LORDE]

You realize that their farm at that point, outside of Malkin and Crosby, did not produce a single top-6 forward, right? In fact, the overall failure of the Penguins drafting and development beyond those guys is the central reason they went all those years without Cups and had to mortgage what was left of their future to win the 16 and 17 Cups (which I'm not criticizing those moves, just pointing out they were forced to make them). I don't feel like it's wildly optimistic to think we might do better on those pieces... just regular optimistic.

I don't have a lack of patience. I believe in thinking strategically while being flexible and adaptable to what's out there, rather than rigidly adhering to a sketched up plan made before you knew what was available when. If I were impatient, I'd be talking about signing Karlsson and giving the reasoning that we might not have a 1st pairing RD prospect in the organization, damn his issues. But in Karlsson's case, I'm leery of his injury history. Or I'd be talking about signing Duchene and giving the reasoning that Chytil looks like he might be a winger, damn his issues. But in Duchene's case, I don't quite buy that he's matured enough to be an effective player in the comfort of a long-term deal. Individual reasons for individual players.

Panarin doesn't have the issues those guys have and is an elite talent, which is why I maintain my interest in him. As I've said, I have no problem with the Rangers deciding that they feel he, as an individual, isn't the right fit.

Best post U have made in eons (that was childish

Kidding aside the Pens could make mistakes... they had Crosby and Malkin. We have Kakko/Hughes. Not the same and just one.

That’s the issue. When and if we have two who MAY Be equivalent I would and will change my mind.

That’s not rigid and it’s not a laid out plan. It’s understanding timing.

We had Hank. We had a solid if unspectacular defense. We had no scoring. AT ALL. We rushed to UFA to accommodate Hank’s prime and it failed.

I wanna build solid and organically and from what I have read, Gorton and JD are of the same feeling. The time will be there where we mortgage some part of a future and or cap space for THAT piece.

But we don’t know what THAT piece is yet. If it is Panarin or the like, it’s too early.

 

[Leetch3]

Would anyone be opposed to something like:

Callahan + TB 3rd 19 + TB 2nd 20 for Namestnikov @$2m?

Shattenkirk @$4.5m cap hit for Colin Miller + David Clarkson’s contract

Colin Miller + Jesper Fast for Andreas Johansson + Patrick Marleau + TOR 1st ‘20 + Nathan Horton’s contract
-Rangers buy out Marleau

Brendan Smith for Val Nichuskin + Martin Hanzal
-Rangers waive Nichuskin to start the year and loan him to KHL team

Chris Kreider for ARI 1st + Lawson Crouse


Buch-Zib-Kakko
Johansson-Strome-Kravtsov
Lemieux-Chytil-Andersson
Crouse-Nieves-Callahan
Lettieri

Skjei-ADA
Staal-Pionk
Hajek/Lindgren/Rykov-PETROVIC
Claesson

between retentions on namestnikov, shattenkirk and spooner, plus the boughts of girardi and marleau and LTIR for clarkson and horton thats close to $26 mil in dead cap space. if phoenix thinks that should be against the rules LOL

 

[n8]

I don't think he's saying that. I think he's saying sign some legit 4th liners over the summer, let Fast find his game again through a (hopefully) injury-free season, and trade him for assets at the deadline. The UFA's over the summer aren't necessarily on one year deals. Furthermore, I think Fast is a guy who can slot in on a 2nd or 3rd line as well when needed.

We need less penalties, better PK, better D, scoring, etc... The NYR have a lot of needs, unfortunately.

ok, that seems totally fair. It was just a whole list of points and all together it seemed like a lot of conflicting statements. We don't have a whole lot of prospect depth on the wings in the bottom 6 PK energy grinder mold. At center, we're looking at 2 of Lias, Howden, and Nieves to become those guys I guess? I like Tanev and Hagelin (of course depending on term and AAV) as bottom six UFA options who can bring energy and PK prowess. Tanev would be a nicer longer term bottom 6 LW to go along with Lemieux but I think we can get Hagelin for cheaper. He seemed to really help the Caps get their PK sorted out when they acquired him.

 

[bobbop]

Clarkson and Horton are LTIR and don’t affect real spending vs. cap. Would make the summer interesting though. Both have large cash payouts involved but hey, we’re MSG and we have the financial resources. If there’s a win attached, I’m in. Probably one or the other.

 

[kinger8998]

Next step int the Process - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

It’s too bad that this would never happen. It’s my dream scenario for a couple of reasons:

- Stay away from some potentially handicapping contracts in Panarin/Karlsson that would lead to Toronto-esque cap crunch
- Having 8th and 9th picks would allow us to potentially get a guy that can be that 2nd line center we are missing
- For next year, Brassard can fill that hole, and be good rental for contending team.
- Marleau/Callahan bring veterans to a really really young team, but only have 1 year remaining
- Did not have to sell low on Shatty, think he can have a rebound year
- Chytil on wing, where i think he can develip better
- Georgiev still around and available to use as bait once Shesterkin is ready
- Sergachev/Skjei is a solid future on LHD, while Fox/ADA is solid foundation on right. Staal/Shatty bring veteran leadership.

 

[bobbop]

Trouba missed 22 games in 2016-17 due to a prolonged holdout and suspension. He has played virtually a full season in three of the last four years.

 

[RangerBoy]

So do I but what young guy do we have will grow into that role? Chytl is more suited for wing, kratsov wing, howden? Anderson? We are razor thin at center and unless we get trade to get another top 10 pick like zegras or trade for a William nylander, I don't see a 1st or 2nd line center in the group.

Gorton believes Chytil is best suited at center. He made those comments to Dave Maloney on the radio late in the season. Chytil got hurt a few games later. Quinn might not feel the same way. He may not trust him defensively.

The Leafs aren't trading Nylander. They will keep their main guys together and fill in the pieces around them. Tavares. Matthews. Marner. Nylander. Reilly. Andersen. Those players will cost $50M and they fill in the pieces around them. Everyone else is fair game. Kadri,etc.

The Rangers have Andersson, Chytil and Howden. The Rangers need to see to what they have in them. The Rangers are rebuilding.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Its very unlikely that either Hughes or Kakko are Malkin level.

Malkin is virtually Crosby level.

I agree. Hughes is likely to be Austin Matthews level if he hits on his potential.

A winger comparison I've seen thrown around for Kakko is Patrick Kane if he hits.

Both elite players but one level down from the AO's, Crosby, Malkin, McDavids of the world.

 

[kinger8998]

i propose we embrace #TheVision, take on some bad one year contracts (Callahan, Marleau) and give the young guys ice.

Sucking for one more year to get a REALLY good draft pick in a REALLY good draft year is a fair trade off. 2020 draft is one of the best in a long time, so lets get 1 more elite talent to complement kravtsov/kakko

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

i propose we embrace #TheVision, take on some bad one year contracts (Callahan, Marleau) and give the young guys ice.

Sucking for one more year to get a REALLY good draft pick in a REALLY good draft year is a fair trade off. 2020 draft is one of the best in a long time, so lets get 1 more elite talent to complement kravtsov/kakko

Trade a 3rd for Marleau and Kapanen, buy out Marleau so he can sign with Toronto for 1m. They save 5.2m in cap space, while only giving up Kapanen.

Our very own Teravainen deal.