Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIV

[wafflepadsave]

Keep in mind the Rangers and Vegas did talk at the deadline. I don’t know who or what was discussed but I do know they talked. That was first hand information. I really don’t know exactly what Vegas would want in a deal other than dumping that contract.

Think gift cards Bob.

 

[wafflepadsave]

There is no way the Rangers take on Lucic's contract for 4 more years.

If they're getting assets to take on a bad contract, it'll be one with 2 years remaining on it at most. They're not going to handicap themselves while they're trying to turn the corner.

Callahan for 1 year still makes the most sense to me.

Then our stance would be, 8th oa or go fish.

 

[Levitate]

Some old school backward thinking in there but oh well

 

[haohmaru]

Interesting how he "doesn't know the Rangers farm system well" but "likes how quickly the Rangers have built up a farm"

Seven first rounders in three years allows just about anyone to make that analysis.

 

[Ola]

Thats not even including Fast and Andersson too. Ideally youd had a 4th line of

Vesey - Strome - Fast

That brings you down to 9, though I see Names getting moved in th summer, youd have

Kreider - Zbad - Kakko
Buch - Chytil - Kravstov
Lemiuex - Howden - Names

That lineup is scary with how many young kids are on each line. Could be a recipe for disaster.

Yeah, a kid that we cannot put in a position in which he can play to his strength shouldn't be in NY. Its as simple as that. Its the same mistake EDM always have made.

I am a bit worried about Chytil. He looks more physically mature for the Czech's in the WCHs. But not much at all has happened to his game with the puck. So much about that is focused around just driving to the net at full speed, there is a bit of a havoc around the net, and he looks to stuff home rebounds. Its definitely a bit too one-dimensional. For long parts of last season he had a pretty minor role. Very few and short puck touches. Its one of those things I wish we had some stats on. Think it would be pretty eye-opening and alarm bells would sound earlier. On one side you have a 4th line wing role in the NHL, on some nights you have like 3-4 puck touches that all are shorter than 2 seconds. On the other side of the spectrum you have a game in the CHL where a player might have 30-40 puck touches over the whole range up towards 5-6 seconds for the longest, and a bunch around 4 seconds.

I've seen it so many times with kids that are rushed, from a very early age (18 is a very early age) they stop playing with the puck a lot. Many of them also started playing mens' hockey in Europe from when they were 16-17 y/o. Then when they are 21-22 y/o you watch them play and it looks like they don't have much skill and you wonder what anyone saw on them 3-4 years ago. But that is the result you get when you have had a kid play 5-6 years of hockey games only touch the puck 3-10 times a game for 1-2 second each time on average. That guy will not be poised when he have the puck, evaluate the situations in front of him well, be creative and so forth.

And for any kid to play at that level in the NHL, you need to put him in a strong environment. It don't matter if you are dealing with a first overall pick or seventh overall pick or 2nd round pick. This will have a huge impact on how well a kid will become down the road. Its always hard to speculate on what would have happened with this or that kid if they didn't end up in a environment that was perfect for them. Pasternak in Boston getting to play with Bergeron and Marchand. Karlsson getting so much freedom in his early years in Ottawa. And so forth.

 

[NYR Viper]

I honestly don't know if this is unreasonable or not, but I'm thinking of the following

To EDM:
Brendan Smith @$3m cap hit + 20th

To NYR:
Milan Lucic @$3m cap hit + 8th + 38th pick

@Trxjw Saw your post as I continued to read through the thread. I'm thinking something like this. Edmonton still has a 1st round pick in this scenario.

That’s a good twist to mine. I like it. I think there’s a deal to be made there. And I also think Lucic at that cap hit could be of value to this team.

 

[Fitzy]

Let's see what Lemieux can do after a summer with Prentiss before saying what limits he has. He might just become a 20G-20A grinder the Rangers haven't developed in forever that is the third piece of a middle six unit.

Big offseason for Hajek. He has the inside track but needs to get stronger. He knows it as that was in his exit interview.

I see him hitting that mark maybe once or twice in his career, but not as a typical production level.

It's hard to hit 20-20 without being a PP regular.

12-18-30 is, for me, what his career average will be.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I see him hitting that mark maybe once or twice in his career, but not as a typical production level.

It's hard to hit 20-20 without being a PP regular.

12-18-30 is, for me, what his career average will be.

He scored 13 last year and just hit that age of 23 when players begin to ripen. Let's see what he can do with a full summer of Prentiss.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

I just can't get onboard the Trouba train. Too many reasons for it not to be logical:

1. Rangers have a zillion RHD in ADA/Pionk/Fox/Shatty and that's not even counting guys like Keane. Yes we all want to move Shatty who doesn't have much value and Pionk after his first full year is already being tarred and feathered and run out of town by impatient fans. So where is there room for Trouba exactly? How do we know Pionk won't improve? Just because he had a good first two months as a first year pro doesn't mean he's automatically "Mr. October" Brian Savage the rest of his career.

2. Chevy got burned bad in the Hayes trade. He might be reluctant to deal with JG at least initially or so soon after.

3. Who are the Rangers trading for Trouba? Buch? Anderson? Give me a realistic trade. This isn't going to be Vesey/Pionk + a 3rd for Trouba. Are the Rangers in a position this early into a rebuild to make a trade for an oft injured DMan? The only realistic trade I can see is Kreider + pick for Trouba.

 

[pld459666]

Sorry, sometimes the discussions here get a little advanced, I understand that it can be hard to keep up.

You wrote that Hank has to decide if he should stay or go elsewhere to keep his dream alive.

The point of my reply? The dream is dead. The ship has sailed. We all know it. Everyone knows it. It’s ridiculous to pretend as if it haven’t. Geo is better than Hank. If Hank goes elsewhere, I think odds are pretty low for him finishing the season — as a starter for that team. Let along starting for that team and carrying it to a Cup win. Whom am I to say never, but the odds are tremendously slim.

Some still push the agenda that Hank must be traded real hard, why? They believe that we can get a great return for him, or clear up 9m or cap space. Really, why would anyone do that? It’s childish to expect that. It’s never happening.

I think if you put a good defence in front of Hank today, he can help win a cup.

I think any mistake he makes now is amplified due to the fact that this is a piss poor team right now.

 

[Trxjw]

Lemieux came in with a bang but - I won't say "went out with a whimper" - he did fizzle a bit. He certainly deserves a good opportunity but I'm not convinced he's a long-term piece. I am rooting for him but it still remains to be seen, is all I'm saying.

I'm a big fan of the kid so I disagree with the long term aspect of it, but I agree that he fizzled a bit at the end.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I just can't get onboard the Trouba train. Too many reasons for it not to be logical:

1. Rangers have a zillion RHD in ADA/Pionk/Fox/Shatty and that's not even counting guys like Keane. Yes we all want to move Shatty who doesn't have much value and Pionk after his first full year is already being tarred and feathered and run out of town by impatient fans. So where is there room for Trouba exactly? How do we know Pionk won't improve? Just because he had a good first two months as a first year pro doesn't mean he's automatically "Mr. October" Brian Savage the rest of his career.

2. Chevy got burned bad in the Hayes trade. He might be reluctant to deal with JG at least initially or so soon after.

3. Who are the Rangers trading for Trouba? Buch? Anderson? Give me a realistic trade. This isn't going to be Vesey/Pionk + a 3rd for Trouba. Are the Rangers in a position this early into a rebuild to make a trade for an oft injured DMan? The only realistic trade I can see is Kreider + pick for Trouba.

Pionk just isnt good. Possibly as a 3rd pair dman. Shattenkirk has a good chance of being dealt at the deadline or next summer. Keane hasnt played a professional game yet.

The Rangers are very light in the right hand side. If the price is right dont see why they wouldnt explore Trouba. Only true long term pieces are ADA and Fox.

 

[True Blue]

I see him hitting that mark maybe once or twice in his career, but not as a typical production level.

It's hard to hit 20-20 without being a PP regular.

12-18-30 is, for me, what his career average will be.

He just netted 12 goals in 63 games, spent the majority on the 4th line in Winnipeg. You may be undervaluing him.

 

[Trxjw]

I honestly don't know if this is unreasonable or not, but I'm thinking of the following

To EDM:
Brendan Smith @$3m cap hit + 20th

To NYR:
Milan Lucic @$3m cap hit + 8th + 38th pick

@Trxjw Saw your post as I continued to read through the thread. I'm thinking something like this. Edmonton still has a 1st round pick in this scenario.

I'm not sure that the Oilers will eat such a big portion of his contract. Especially if they're taking back a bad contract in Smith. At $3M per year, Lucic is pretty manageable for most teams to take on, so I would expect the assets given up to be minor. I think if you're going to get that #8 pick you're not only going to have to take him at the full hit, but you're going to have to send an NHL body back their way. Not a great player like Kreider of course, but a Vesey or Namestnikov type.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Does some thing like Shattenkirk with $2MM retained and Tampas #2 for Lucic with $1MM retained and the #8?

 

[eco's bones]

Pionk just isnt good. Possibly as a 3rd pair dman. Shattenkirk has a good chance of being dealt at the deadline or next summer. Keane hasnt played a professional game yet.

The Rangers are very light in the right hand side. If the price is right dont see why they wouldnt explore Trouba. Only true long term pieces are ADA and Fox.

Pionk probably could and would have played for a lot of NHL teams last year--but he would have broken in like almost every other D that comes into the league on the third pairing--not the first. If he were with a different organization he might have spent part of the season going back and forth between the NHL and AHL. Even New Jersey didn't put Butcher--a similar player in a shutdown 1st pairing role. People hating on Pionk for being put into a role that he wasn't nearly ready for are IMO a bit out to lunch on the player. He's got pretty good skill and a good attitude and an engine and he tries but all those things don't make up for his lack of pro and NHL experience--his work in progress defensive issues and his lack of size and strength which can be particularly glaring when an opponent isolates bigger, stronger and often elite players against him.

 

[ETTER DE]

Risto will be one of those never ending stories. Buffalo isn't playing well enough as a team. Eichel is floater and Sam Reinhart -- no matter how many pts he had this year -- just isn't very good. They got way to many passengers that don't push the pace on the ice, add Okoposo to that group. Skinner is what he is. Sobotka. Johan Larsson can't skate. Girgenson is so-so.

We all complained on them for throwing in the towel, but I wonder if they didn't over-perform for the first half of the season instead.

As a result the team sucks, and all Ds struggle on a worthless team. Add in that Riso only have played on worthless teams his entire career and have some issues, the result is a disaster. But these teams just don't realize it, their kids suck because of them. Now the notion is that a new coach "might get to" Risto. But its not Risto that is the problem, its Buffalo. They will probably go back and forth with him for a while before a deal can be possible, and I wonder if he won't be ruined by them. Someone like him would probably have a totally different career if he ended up on a better team than Buffalo

Cant arguee with what you are saying. But Buffalo has put the young players in positions they should never have been in. Risto has played way over his head. Eichel more or less expected to carry the team from get go. And now many of you on this board want to do the same in New York? This way of developing has failed both in Buffalo and Edmonton. Cant we learn anything from them?

 

[Avery16]

THIS

 

[Leetch3]

THIS

first the exception doesn't make a new rule...

second i like how he claims that it proves that you don't have to bottom out cause they haven't had a top 5 pick since 2008 and 2010 like that so long ago. I guess the penguins, hawks and caps proved that as well cause they haven't picked first overall since 2005, 2007 and 2004 so clearly that proves you don't need a top pick right?

and this is the bruins 3rd trip to the final in 9 years and they are 1 of the 5 teams to win over the last decade. they were already part of the 'model' of how to win

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Pionk just isnt good. Possibly as a 3rd pair dman. Shattenkirk has a good chance of being dealt at the deadline or next summer. Keane hasnt played a professional game yet.

The Rangers are very light in the right hand side. If the price is right dont see why they wouldnt explore Trouba. Only true long term pieces are ADA and Fox.

I get that most of the four RHD on the roster now will not be here when the Rangers are a contender again, but why give up on Pionk so quickly? If he's a third pair fine. Just because he plateaued doesn't mean he can't improve. And Shatty/Staal/Smith aren't just disappearing with the snap of a finger by Thanos in the near future. They either have to bite the bullet and trade picks with them as bribes, or deal with buyout money.

And whether it's people here or Larry Brooks, what is a realistic proposal for Trouba? Why has no one be able to provide a deal for him that Chevy Chevaldayoff would actually consider? Because for where the Rangers and Jets are in their respective positions as hockey clubs with personnel, they are not good trading partners.

 

[I Eat Crow]

He scored 13 last year and just hit that age of 23 when players begin to ripen. Let's see what he can do with a full summer of Prentiss.

I see Lemieux being a 20 goal scorer this year with top 9 minutes. He has a good nose for the net.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Wouldn’t mind seeing, at least to start:

Krieds Ziba Krakko
Lemmy Chytil Krat
Buch Howton/Lias Strome
Vesey/Names Howton/Lias Fast
Nieves

Trade one of Names/Vesey/Strome

Skjei ADA
Staal Fox
Hajek/Rykov Shatty/Pionk
Claesson

Buy out / trade Smith, trade either Shatty or Pionk

Powder dry on FAs unless it’s a cheap vet for depth / competition

Take on an expiring contract or 2 for more young assets or move up in draft

 

[Fitzy]

A post I've been wanting to make for a while-

Those suggesting we make trades or sign players of a particular nationality to help a new young prospect adjust are barking up the wrong tree in my eyes.

Social research has indicated that when an individual moves to a foreign country of a different language, they become much more proficient when they do so single as opposed to with a partner or spouse. The mechanism being that if you have one close friend or spouse of the same language, you can lean on them for social interaction and don't have to devote the same amount of time and effort into learning the new language and culture.

And that's well before we even get into what the cost-benefit ratio of making an otherwise undesirable move just to make a prospect slightly more comfortable were to be, if we were too suggest it helped at all.

 

[Trxjw]

Brooks writes a blueprint article pretty much every year after the teams in the final are decided just so he can lament the direction of the Rangers. It's drivel and nothing more.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

A post I've been wanting to make for a while-

Those suggesting we make trades or sign players of a particular nationality to help a new young prospect adjust are barking up the wrong tree in my eyes.

Social research has indicated that when an individual moves to a foreign country of a different language, they become much more proficient when they do so single as opposed to with a partner or spouse. The mechanism being that if you have one close friend or spouse of the same language, you can lean on them for social interaction and don't have to devote the same amount of time and effort into learning the new language and culture.

And that's well before we even get into what the cost-benefit ratio of making an otherwise undesirable move just to make a prospect slightly more comfortable were to be, if we were too suggest it helped at all.

Remember when Kovalchuk was going to turn Buch into a monster? #RussianVoltron

It's like that with any nationality, hey so and so will help so and so young player in big American city. Sometimes it's true but in the days of the internet and iphones, it's much easier to understand a city before getting there.