Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIV

[Beacon]

I honestly dont think I know what we have with regards to the dmen that played last year. I'm watching Skjei at the world's and he is leading the US team in minutes and playing really well, even if they did lose. I mean they have him playing more minutes than Suter so maybe Ruff is the issue and we might need to let things play out before making too many decisions on d.

Defensemen more than forwards look bad when playing above their ability. A third line forward who finds himself on the first line racks up points he doesn't deserve. A second pair D looks subpar on the first line. A third pair D on the first pair looks like he never played hockey before.

People would have a much more favorable view of Skjei and Pionk if they played on the second and third pair, respectively. Instead, we hear how Lindgren should replace them despite being unable to crack the top pairing in Hartford.

 

[Beacon]

I tend to see it similarly. I don't think they remove many more core guys, maybe just Kreider. And skjei doesn't get moved on a futures deal. Just not enough depth back there.

Kreider is the last guy who can fetch anything more than a late second rounder. Skjei needs to stay until 2 of K'Andre, Hajek or Rykov (or someone else) prove capable of 1LD and 2LD duties. Potentially we could even have 1LD, 2LD and 2LD because Cup winners have an overload of talent to step in when someone is injured or struggling.

This team is very far from trading Skjei for futures (unless a killer offer comes in).

 

[Ola]

Rangers are just in such a unique situation to bring in Jesse Puljajarvi.

Overly used sayings like 'this is a make or break year for Player X', but there is only so much time before I player can be receptive to development before the 'cake is baked' proverbially.

He would have no pressure situation while hopefully the Rangers take all the correct development steps with Kravtsov and Kakko.

I'd tether Jesper Fast to JP as his mentor. At absolutely worst, Jesse Puljajarvi has the skillset to be a 700 game bottom-6 player and upside to play up and down the roster.

Yeah I agree, the only issue I have is log-jam related. Unless we can like move out all of Kreider, Vesey and Names — there is like no room for him.

I am slotting in both Kravy and Kakko in the top 9 (I think it’s only relevant to talk about top 9, not top 6, there is no difference between top 6 and top 9 in usage 5 on 5).

Top 9
Ziba
Kreider
Buch
Chytil
Names
Strome
Vesey
Kravy
Kakko
Howden
Lemieux

That is 11 guys just there.

 

[eco's bones]

Lucic @50% is not a bad option if you’re taking on quality assets.

The thing with Lucic is he could very well be a quality player on your team in the right role.

The guy is without question a Leader. And he’s gone out if his way to protect his teammates throughout his career. Not like Tanner Glass where he protected his teammates by getting his ass kicked and then sitting for 5min.

If he drops 15lbs and is rejuvenated, he could be a terrific bottom 6 player.

The two things that worries me is do we have to protect him? (Yes).

And would EDM really offer up the 8th OA+ to move him? (Probably not).

People hated Tanner Glass. I get it. He wasn't a very productive hockey player. That said he was a very good hockey fighter and anyone who took the time to trawl through hockeyfights.com and review the tapes and look at his fight cards would give him credit for that. But anyway between the 2014-15 and 2016-17 seasons Glass fought 29 times for us including 7 times in the AHL--his fight card is very impressive and anytime a fight goes over a 6 (like it did 10 times) that tells you the hockey fight community was really impressed. It's not just Rangers fans at hockeyfights--everybody takes a look. Judging by their results--his time as a Rangers/Wolfpack player Glass won 20 times and lost 9. Among those he lost to--Deslauriers is a super tough guy, Prust very technical, Cody McLeod, Maroon--flat out huge and playing in the Stanley Cup finals this year, Shawn Thornton--one of the best fighters of his era, Eric Boulton-ditto and Ross Johnston who is a monster. He also lost once to Tim Gleason--it's a fight that Gleason jumped him and made him look bad--Glass returned the favor the same year in the playoffs--pulling Gleason out of a scrum and working him over and finishing his night for him. Among his wins--Stortini, Jared Boll who was the king of uppercuts, Sena Acolatse--an AHL nightmare, he's given credit for a win over McQuaid--honestly McQuaid slipped and that shouldn't count, he flattened Strachan, a return match with McLeod, Luke Witkowski who is super tough--that was nasty, Scott Mayfield, and Mark Borowiecki--and over the course of his career he really hurt some guys--Eric Nystrom comes to mind.

The idea that Glass was some kind of pushover is not right. He had an unenviable job and especially considering that AV wanted him to do all the team's fighting. If we're talking about him as a player he kind of sucked--if you're talking about him as a teammate--he had his teammates backs whenever called upon. Would it have been nice if the Rangers could actually have had a guy who could both actually play decent and take care of that kind of shit?---yeah, it would have but that's not how it happened. Can't really blame someone for giving their best effort.

 

[Vitto79]

Yeah I agree, the only issue I have is log-jam related. Unless we can like move out all of Kreider, Vesey and Names — there is like no room for him.

I am slotting in both Kravy and Kakko in the top 9 (I think it’s only relevant to talk about top 9, not top 6, there is no difference between top 6 and top 9 in usage 5 on 5).

Top 9
Ziba
Kreider
Buch
Chytil
Names
Strome
Vesey
Kravy
Kakko
Howden
Lemieux

That is 11 guys just there.

Then add Andersson , Fast , Nieves and something’s gotta give. No room to sign anyone and was thinking they may sign a Fin to help Kappo get comfortable like Filpula

Is Ristolainen a defensive liability ? Seems like a RD is in need

 

[Vitto79]

People hated Tanner Glass. I get it. He wasn't a very productive hockey player. That said he was a very good hockey fighter and anyone who took the time to trawl through hockeyfights.com and review the tapes and look at his fight cards would give him credit for that. But anyway between the 2014-15 and 2016-17 seasons Glass fought 29 times for us including 7 times in the AHL--his fight card is very impressive and anytime a fight goes over a 6 (like it did 10 times) that tells you the hockey fight community was really impressed. It's not just Rangers fans at hockeyfights--everybody takes a look. Judging by their results--his time as a Rangers/Wolfpack player Glass won 20 times and lost 9. Among those he lost to--Deslauriers is a super tough guy, Prust very technical, Cody McLeod, Maroon--flat out huge and playing in the Stanley Cup finals this year, Shawn Thornton--one of the best fighters of his era, Eric Boulton-ditto and Ross Johnston who is a monster. He also lost once to Tim Gleason--it's a fight that Gleason jumped him and made him look bad--Glass returned the favor the same year in the playoffs--pulling Gleason out of a scrum and working him over and finishing his night for him. Among his wins--Stortini, Jared Boll who was the king of uppercuts, Sena Acolatse--an AHL nightmare, he's given credit for a win over McQuaid--honestly McQuaid slipped and that shouldn't count, he flattened Strachan, a return match with McLeod, Luke Witkowski who is super tough--that was nasty, Scott Mayfield, and Mark Borowiecki--and over the course of his career he really hurt some guys--Eric Nystrom comes to mind.

The idea that Glass was some kind of pushover is not right. He had an unenviable job and especially considering that AV wanted him to do all the team's fighting. If we're talking about him as a player he kind of sucked--if you're talking about him as a teammate--he had his teammates backs whenever called upon. Would it have been nice if the Rangers could actually have had a guy who could both actually play decent and take care of that kind of ****?---yeah, it would have but that's not how it happened. Can't really blame someone for giving their best effort.

I still can’t beliebe AV through Glass in the I’ve last minute when Brassard the extra attacker scored for Ottawa .... I mean anyone else ... if you watch the replay if someone slowed him down NYR wins the game and likely the series ....Pens won the cup and weren’t even that good on D that year ... that was the last NYR run the rebuild then started

 

[Vitto79]

Is it worth taking Cally w 27 for Dallas 2nd ?

Or insist on Tampa’s 2nd ?

Trying to gauge what Tampa’s willing to add

 

[Michal]

Could you please remind me predictions regarding next Trouba's contract?

 

[egelband]

Yeah there are a lot of variables when it comes to the pieces that would be involved in a deal. I'd imagine the Rangers would like to dump a salary in the deal as well, but then there are questions about how much that impacts the return. Maybe a guy like Vesey goes back to offset some of the salary for this season while giving the Oilers a scoring winger to take a chance on. That seems to be what their fans talk about when it comes to where the money would be spent.

The team definitely had the right attitude. Especially later in the season once Lemieux was added, but with the addition of likely 2 or 3 more rookies, and the loss of the guys mentioned earlier, it could behoove them to add some more grit to the lineup. Now that can definitely be found in a more cost-effective manner than Lucic, but if they think he can recover some of his game then perhaps there's upside to be had. Plus I'd rather see Lucic instead of Lemieux trading blows with the Wilson's of the league.

Lemieux came in with a bang but - I won't say "went out with a whimper" - he did fizzle a bit. He certainly deserves a good opportunity but I'm not convinced he's a long-term piece. I am rooting for him but it still remains to be seen, is all I'm saying.

 

[egelband]

Could you please remind me predictions regarding next Trouba's contract?

From what I gather, just reading the boards, it seems he's expecting $8m per year. Which to me seems high. It's probably what the market would bear. But I personally think it breaks the cap balance. Simply from a bean counter's point of view.

 

[Michal]

From what I gather, just reading the boards, it seems he's expecting $8m per year. Which to me seems high. It's probably what the market would bear. But I personally think it breaks the cap balance. Simply from a bean counter's point of view.

7 years?

 

[Michal]

And what are predictions for next ADA's contract?

 

[egelband]

7 years?

I reckon so. Something like 8x7 give or take. Too much, I'd think. Particularly if there's a bunch of players and/or picka going the other way. Certainly a good player but if I'm the Rangers, too rich for my blood.

 

[Michal]

I reckon so. Something like 8x7 give or take. Too much, I'd think. Particularly if there's a bunch of players and/or picka going the other way. Certainly a good player but if I'm the Rangers, too rich for my blood.

I am wondering if trade trouba - ADA plus Fast or 49OA would be possible and good for us. I think it is up to ADA's next contract .

 

[Gardner McKay]

So I was thinking about a deal that may work for both sides earlier this week. I’m on my phone but I had it laid out in principle on the trade board.

Something like:

To EDM:
Brendan Smith @$3m cap hit

To NYR:
Milan Lucic @$3m cap hit + ______

The oilers could buy out Smith, that leaves them with cap space this upcoming season when they need it. The Rangers could play Lucic and then if need be, trade him with half retained for the final year or two should it be needed.

As far as cap hit, the Rangers would essentially be replacing Smith with Lucic in years 1+2. Years 3+4 they would be adding $3m in cap hit.

Edmonton saves considerably in year 1 with the buyout of Smith, year 2 less so, but years 3+4 are minuscule. It’s a much better option than buying out Lucic just due to quantity of years and gives them flexibility in year 1 which is when they are crunched.

Perhaps the Rangers take back someone like Manning as well and his 1 year cap hit.

The question becomes, what does Edmonton add to facilitate it?

I honestly don't know if this is unreasonable or not, but I'm thinking of the following

To EDM:
Brendan Smith @$3m cap hit + 20th

To NYR:
Milan Lucic @$3m cap hit + 8th + 38th pick

@Trxjw Saw your post as I continued to read through the thread. I'm thinking something like this. Edmonton still has a 1st round pick in this scenario.

 

[egelband]

I am wondering if trade trouba - ADA plus Fast or 49OA would be possible and good for us. I think it is up to ADA's next contract .

Personally I just think the rangers aren't "there" yet. They should keep as much "dry powder" as possible for the next season or so. Getting a guy like Panarin for only cap space is not unreasonable, assuming the cost is reasonable. But giving up assets for simply the right to negotiate a costly long-term deal sooner... The Rangers don't need that extra window anyhow. Players want to go to. NY. And next year is off no consequence.

 

[charliemurphy]

What about a trade including a 3rd team like Vancouver to take Lucic while Rangers retain salary?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Yeah I agree, the only issue I have is log-jam related. Unless we can like move out all of Kreider, Vesey and Names — there is like no room for him.

I am slotting in both Kravy and Kakko in the top 9 (I think it’s only relevant to talk about top 9, not top 6, there is no difference between top 6 and top 9 in usage 5 on 5).

Top 9
Ziba
Kreider
Buch
Chytil
Names
Strome
Vesey
Kravy
Kakko
Howden
Lemieux

That is 11 guys just there.

Thats not even including Fast and Andersson too. Ideally youd had a 4th line of

Vesey - Strome - Fast

That brings you down to 9, though I see Names getting moved in th summer, youd have

Kreider - Zbad - Kakko
Buch - Chytil - Kravstov
Lemiuex - Howden - Names

That lineup is scary with how many young kids are on each line. Could be a recipe for disaster.

 

[Michal]

Personally I just think the rangers aren't "there" yet. They should keep as much "dry powder" as possible for the next season or so. Getting a guy like Panarin for only cap space is not unreasonable, assuming the cost is reasonable. But giving up assets for simply the right to negotiate a costly long-term deal sooner... The Rangers don't need that extra window anyhow. Players want to go to. NY. And next year is off no consequence.

Ok, that was my opinion too, maybe still is but it's so hard to draft future big RD with top pairing potential (or get a prospect). We need that type of player so much. I think the only player who fullfils that criteria in this year's draft is Moritz Seider. What if another team gets him?

So what are your prediction regarding ADA's contract?

 

[SA16]

I wouldn't trade a 7th round pick for Callahan and 27 overall.

I would, possibly, for their 1st in 2020 though.

 

[Ola]

Then add Andersson , Fast , Nieves and something’s gotta give. No room to sign anyone and was thinking they may sign a Fin to help Kappo get comfortable like Filpula

Is Ristolainen a defensive liability ? Seems like a RD is in need

Risto will be one of those never ending stories. Buffalo isn't playing well enough as a team. Eichel is floater and Sam Reinhart -- no matter how many pts he had this year -- just isn't very good. They got way to many passengers that don't push the pace on the ice, add Okoposo to that group. Skinner is what he is. Sobotka. Johan Larsson can't skate. Girgenson is so-so.

We all complained on them for throwing in the towel, but I wonder if they didn't over-perform for the first half of the season instead.

As a result the team sucks, and all Ds struggle on a worthless team. Add in that Riso only have played on worthless teams his entire career and have some issues, the result is a disaster. But these teams just don't realize it, their kids suck because of them. Now the notion is that a new coach "might get to" Risto. But its not Risto that is the problem, its Buffalo. They will probably go back and forth with him for a while before a deal can be possible, and I wonder if he won't be ruined by them. Someone like him would probably have a totally different career if he ended up on a better team than Buffalo

 

[haohmaru]

A couple of weeks ago I was having dinner with a contact of mine while we were watching the Sharks & Blues.

The question came around: Did Erik Karlsson lose a step? My response was yes, based on the eye test in that game.

The reply from him was: Did he really lose a step or was he playing injured? It was the latter.

Karlsson is a guy who is going to get $11M from some team if he signs for 3 years. It will be up to Erik to see if he's willing to bet on himself or seek security. If it's term, teams will be in the $8M-$9M range. 3 Year Deals worked out for a guy like Joe Thornton.

We talked about the Rangers, there's been weeks of back and forth on here about free agents, taking on bad contracts etc. From someone who is close to the game, here's an outside perspective as to what it comes down to.

• Not going to win with the defense. Has 1 legitimate top 4 guy on the roster (Skjei). There isn't a hockey trade to be made where the Rangers can get a 1:1 and acquire a legitimate top 4 player without giving up assets that the Rangers wouldn't move (Zibs, Skjei, or premium youth in a package).
• If the Rangers want to fix the defense, it will have to be with more money (UFA), or develop them. Fox can be a guy who takes that step next year, but it's a tough expectation to place on a guy early on. Doesn't know the Rangers farm system well, but having a kid that can skate and defend with his feet would be a good step. Someone like a Vince Dunn.
• Doesn't see Shattenkirk as a top 4. Hasn't for a long time. Smith is not an everyday NHL player. Staal is an old school guy, game has changed where a guy like him should be in the top 4.
• Fourth Line might have been worst in the league last year. Teams are willing to pay a premium for good grinders. Rangers should be one of those teams going forward if they want to take a step.
• Doesn't see the team as one where the locker room polices itself, or has strong leadership. Not enough heart and soul guys. Roster needs sandpaper. Character in the room. NYC is not a city where you can breed a winning culture without guys that can help facilitate that with kids.
• Expects the Rangers to be active in free agency. But for 4th liners, and defense. Rangers are easy to beat if they take penalties. Lunqvist can't save the day on the PK anymore, and the Rangers don't defend well.
• Path to winning comes from fixing the PK, getting a legitimate fourth line.
• Likes how quickly the Rangers have built up a farm. Very impressed with the trades they made in selling off the last two seasons. Felt that they got some really good returns as far as the futures they acquired.
• Expects the sell-offs to continue. Will get good value from a guy like Fast if he's healthy at the deadline.
• Doesn't expect the Rangers to make hockey trades.
• Likes the physical tools of Kreider. Always thought he could be more. "Lower profile Brendan Saad". Same warts. What would he be if he played with a couple of guys like Toews and Hossa?

Great post - can't let that go without being said by someone. Thanks.

 

[haohmaru]

The Lucic contract is SO toxic that I don't see how or why the Rangers want that albatross for another four years to go with what they already have through 20-21

Does JD have any history of taking on bad contracts with St. Louis or Columbus? Asking because I honestly don't know.

 

[SA16]

A couple of weeks ago I was having dinner with a contact of mine while we were watching the Sharks & Blues.

The question came around: Did Erik Karlsson lose a step? My response was yes, based on the eye test in that game.

The reply from him was: Did he really lose a step or was he playing injured? It was the latter.

Karlsson is a guy who is going to get $11M from some team if he signs for 3 years. It will be up to Erik to see if he's willing to bet on himself or seek security. If it's term, teams will be in the $8M-$9M range. 3 Year Deals worked out for a guy like Joe Thornton.

We talked about the Rangers, there's been weeks of back and forth on here about free agents, taking on bad contracts etc. From someone who is close to the game, here's an outside perspective as to what it comes down to.

• Not going to win with the defense. Has 1 legitimate top 4 guy on the roster (Skjei). There isn't a hockey trade to be made where the Rangers can get a 1:1 and acquire a legitimate top 4 player without giving up assets that the Rangers wouldn't move (Zibs, Skjei, or premium youth in a package).
• If the Rangers want to fix the defense, it will have to be with more money (UFA), or develop them. Fox can be a guy who takes that step next year, but it's a tough expectation to place on a guy early on. Doesn't know the Rangers farm system well, but having a kid that can skate and defend with his feet would be a good step. Someone like a Vince Dunn.
• Doesn't see Shattenkirk as a top 4. Hasn't for a long time. Smith is not an everyday NHL player. Staal is an old school guy, game has changed where a guy like him should be in the top 4.
• Fourth Line might have been worst in the league last year. Teams are willing to pay a premium for good grinders. Rangers should be one of those teams going forward if they want to take a step.
• Doesn't see the team as one where the locker room polices itself, or has strong leadership. Not enough heart and soul guys. Roster needs sandpaper. Character in the room. NYC is not a city where you can breed a winning culture without guys that can help facilitate that with kids.
• Expects the Rangers to be active in free agency. But for 4th liners, and defense. Rangers are easy to beat if they take penalties. Lunqvist can't save the day on the PK anymore, and the Rangers don't defend well.
• Path to winning comes from fixing the PK, getting a legitimate fourth line.
• Likes how quickly the Rangers have built up a farm. Very impressed with the trades they made in selling off the last two seasons. Felt that they got some really good returns as far as the futures they acquired.
• Expects the sell-offs to continue. Will get good value from a guy like Fast if he's healthy at the deadline.
• Doesn't expect the Rangers to make hockey trades.
• Likes the physical tools of Kreider. Always thought he could be more. "Lower profile Brendan Saad". Same warts. What would he be if he played with a couple of guys like Toews and Hossa?

Interesting how he "doesn't know the Rangers farm system well" but "likes how quickly the Rangers have built up a farm"

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Let's see what Lemieux can do after a summer with Prentiss before saying what limits he has. He might just become a 20G-20A grinder the Rangers haven't developed in forever that is the third piece of a middle six unit.

Big offseason for Hajek. He has the inside track but needs to get stronger. He knows it as that was in his exit interview.