Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIII

[Beacon]

I doubt right now if anyone is going to give EK65 seven years. It’s not just us who are risk adverse.

If you're the GM with a team on the cusp of contention, do you not think, "Let's win a Cup or two now, who cares about 2025 and 2026? I'll still go down as a Cup winner."

Neil Smith screwed up every which way (Weight for Tikkanen, Amonte for Matteau and Noonan, Zubov and Nedved for Robitaille and Ulf, Savard and a first for Lundmark and Hlavac, drafted like utter crap), yet nobody cares because he won the Cup.

You don't think another GM is having fantasies of lifting the Cup in the next 3 years when thinking of replacing their Claesson with EK?

 

[Beacon]

Stay away from EK. Albatross of a contract in waiting.

As per the lease Agreement with Penn Station, if the Rangers do not regularly acquire an albatross contract, they will be evicted and forced to play in Atlanta.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Jumping up to 2nd was great, but has knowingly brought this kind of thinking. It was a great result, but it's foolish to bank on this happening again.

Ask the Knicks.

I'm not going to ask the Knicks. The NBA draft is a completely different animal than the NHL draft. Not to mention that next year has an excellent top 10 so even not winning one of the top 3 spots will garner us an excellent player.

 

[eco's bones]

We lost and are now gonna draft Kakko. They don’t need JD to sell losing as a good idea. Nor do they even need to sell it.

There were those who wanted the Rangers to lose every game to improve our draft chances--griping about wins to the very end. Perhaps you were one of them but it's a losing mentality and the coaching staff isn't like that. Some of our younger prospects are already in place--they should take steps forward this year. I expect more out of Chytil, Howden and Andersson for instance. I expect Lemieux and DeAngelo to be better. If Pionk is still around I expect him to get his act back together and hopefully he'll be in a role that suits him better. I also don't think Quinn will lean heavily on Henrik--if Georgiev or Shesterkin play better--they'll play more. Also I expect Kakko is going to be a 45-50 point player anyway. If Brady Tkachuk can put up 45 last year with Ottawa I think Kakko can do the same or better because IMO he is a better player.

I'll also point out that on exit day--Quinn prioritized fixing the D. The Rangers lost a lot of one goal games and a number of two goal games that had empty netters. Turning that around will improve the team's record. So to me there are plenty of reasons to be positive about next year--we should be better with or without someone like Panarin but Panarin would certainly enhance the team and we can certainly afford him. That doesn't mean we'll make the playoffs but I expect we'll be more competitive and be moving up instead of moving down.

 

[Ola]

As per the lesse Agreement with Penn Station, if the Rangers do not regularly acquire an albatross contract, they will be evicted and forced to play in Atlanta.

Doesn't Penn Station have a lease with us?

 

[Ghost of jas]

I'm not going to ask the Knicks. The NBA draft is a completely different animal than the NHL draft. Not to mention that next year has an excellent top 10 so even not winning one of the top 3 spots will garner us an excellent player.

Exactly. The top seven is considered to be loaded. You can likely add another high end talent to Kakko, Kravtsov and whomever the Rangers are able to trade up to get in the upcoming draft, in addition to Miller, Chytil and Fox. Plus, if they manage to secure Dallas’ 1st, who knows where that pick ends up? Just a little more patience is all that’s needed here.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I'm not going to ask the Knicks. The NBA draft is a completely different animal than the NHL draft. Not to mention that next year has an excellent top 10 so even not winning one of the top 3 spots will garner us an excellent player.

Yes. probability is different here. We may have stumbled on a new marketing slogan.

Probability is different here! Let’s Go Rangers

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

With Kakko's gluten allergy it puts us in a difficult spot though

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

This is unrelated but on IcyData.hockey I found possibly the most essential Keith Yandle graph in analytics history.

Take this crap to the advanced stats thread

 

[Shesterkybomb]

You guys still haven't figured this all out? I'm bad at Roman numerals but isnt this like thread 153...what is taking so long?

 

[Leetch3]

You misconstrued my point, which is that Trouba likely won't be the same player he was last year when we're ready to compete. So we should save the assets and apply them when necessary (assuming one of our prospects doeesn't emerge as a top pairing RD).

I don't think Trouba is as great as people make him out to be. I realize he'll cost a lot and this package probably won't even be enough, but I'm not interested in sacrificing assets for a player like him, who will possibly be entering his downside by the time we're ready to compete.

If you assume we are competing in 2-3 years...Trouba will be 28 or 29, with a lengthy injury history. We just watched multiple D-Men - Klein, Staal, Girardi, etc. - hit major walls as they entered their late 20's. I'd rather not give another long-term commitment to a guy who could be entering a downswing once we're ready to compete.

Also, while injuries can appear at anytime, they are more likely to do so with players who have histories of them. So I think it's accurate to speculate under such a scenario. Which is why I would be against signing EK.

trouba might not be the right guy, but he's 25. same age as Skjei and almost a year younger than mika... he might be the wrong guy for other reasons but I think he is the perfect age to be a veteran on this team. everyone can't be under 23...

 

[Beacon]

It is pretty remarkable how the prospect of landing one of Hughes/Kakko has distorted some posters views of how quickly we're going to get back in playoff contention.

The thoughts of signing Karlsson or Panarin is fun and all, and I understand the sentiment; it's hard for me to not get swept up in the "hype" myself.

This is still a rebuild. We are only ~15 months removed since the 2018 TDL, the officially start of the rebuild. Barely in its infancy stage. Drafting 2nd overall in a draft that has two players worthy of being 1st overall is a game changer, but we still have a ton of question marks that needed to be figured out before we make our move to get back in the mix.

We still need to see what we have in guys like Chytil, Andersson and Howden. They need to take the next step in their development if they're to be players we can build around moving forward. Skjei needs to have a big bounceback season or else the hopes of him ever being a true top pairing defenseman are done. We already had a logjam on defense and now we need to find ice time for both Fox and Rykov as well. I doubt they came here to play in Hartford.

A key season for Tony D as well to see if he can put it all together and be an elite OFD or if his 2nd half was more of a mirage. Same for Zibanejad. He has to prove his 70 point season wasn't just a fluke, but needs to also build on that if he is going to be our first line center moving forward if we dont get Hughes.

TL..DR this is still a team with a bunch of question marks and thinking about making a trade for a player like PK to put us back in the playoff picture... you'd be getting way ahead of yourself.

It is really remarkable that 15 months into a rebuild, the only acceptable topic of conversation is which aging vet we throw crazy money at. We do not yet know how our kids turn out or even what position many of them will play, but forget rebuilding, we are signing UFAs. Why just limit ourselves to one, Panarin and EK here we come.

I'll re-write the TL;DR summary you posted: "this is still a team with a bunch of question marks and thinking about making a trade for a player like PK to put us back in the playoff picture... you'd be getting way ahead of yourself."

 

[GAGLine]

Exactly. The top seven is considered to be loaded. You can likely add another high end talent to Kakko, Kravtsov and whomever the Rangers are able to trade up to get in the upcoming draft, in addition to Miller, Chytil and Fox. Plus, if they manage to secure Dallas’ 1st, who knows where that pick ends up? Just a little more patience is all that’s needed here.

And getting high draft picks aren't the only potential opportunities. With so many teams facing cap crunches this year, there could be an opportunity for us to acquire a good young player. We've already taken advantage of the Fox situation. I'm sure Gorton is keeping his eye on Winnipeg, Vegas, Toronto and Tampa to see if he can take advantage of their cap situations.

 

[eco's bones]

The Rangers had the fewest regulation and OT wins in the NHL this past season. 26 ROW. Take away the gimmick points and the Rangers were the worst team in the NHL. They can't be much worse.

The Rangers need to see what they have in their young guys. Forget about the wins and losses. I know the guys from the Post don't think much of Andersson. The Rangers need to give Andersson an opportunity. He played just 49 NHL games. The same thing with Chytil and Howden. More ice time and more responsibility. Kakko(the Devils are taking Hughes) and Kravtsov will be on the team. That's a lot of young players. The Rangers are rebuilding. The young guys will improve with more ice time.

Andersson split the season between the NHL and AHL. Chytil was shifted all over the lineup. One game Chytil played 4th line center. The next game Chytil played 2nd line right wing. Howden received more steady ice time than the other two players. He went 4 months between goals and missed a month with a knee injury. All of them will be a year older. Quinn needs play all of them more.

Who's arguing that Andersson shouldn't get a chance? I expect him to be better and the same with Chytil and Howden and it's time to take the training wheels off all of them. They ain't wide eyed rookies anymore. This is the year where the critique really starts for them and after their ELC's are over there will be no excuses. They all have to step up and if they don't then maybe they're not the right guys but I expect Chytil will be and I can see Howden being a good to very good 3C. Andersson I'm not so sure about. If he can't get another half step then he shouldn't be at center--he should be on the wing. His ability to get up the ice with the puck with speed is holding him back and I wouldn't be surprised if Kakko blows the doors off. I expect both he and Kravtsov to be better than those mentioned up above.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Other than Panarin there isn't much in it for us with the other big name free agents. Erik Karlsson has been a physical wreck the last couple seasons. Matt Duchene is a good player but he forced his way out of Colorado and more or less did the same with Ottawa--he fights his teams over contracts and has a tendency to slump when he's not getting his way. Karlsson and Duchene are not players I would want the Rangers to go after.

I expect the Rangers will be a better team next year. If the only reason the Rangers have for signing JD is to sell losing as a good idea to Rangers fans they shouldn't have bothered bringing him back.

That's a pretty unfair take on Duchene. They openly shopped him for 2 years and he kept his mouth shut until the end when he wanted closure. No one on that team played well including the current darling MacKinnon and captain Landeskog. Duchene is a convenient whipping boy just like Ryan O'Reilly who was a certified loser until now.

He didn't force his way out of Ottawa any more than Stone did, but again he has a different rep so the same situation is viewed differently. They didn't commit to a tire fire when that organization ostracized Alfredsson and Karlsson amongst others. If 58 points in 50 games is sulking, I have some room for malcontents any day.

I'm not advocating Duchene as an add but that isn't fair take IMO.

And JD just seems like a guy that supports his GM. He trusts the plan and will do what he can to help his guys make it happen. That's all he has done as president so far. He is here to support Gorton whether that is to go hog wild this summer or keep it conservative.

 

[Leetch3]

Other than Panarin there isn't much in it for us with the other big name free agents. Erik Karlsson has been a physical wreck the last couple seasons. Matt Duchene is a good player but he forced his way out of Colorado and more or less did the same with Ottawa--he fights his teams over contracts and has a tendency to slump when he's not getting his way. Karlsson and Duchene are not players I would want the Rangers to go after.

I expect the Rangers will be a better team next year. If the only reason the Rangers have for signing JD is to sell losing as a good idea to Rangers fans they shouldn't have bothered bringing him back.

i get that you want the team to be better but not sure what you've seen to make you expect it...alot can change this offseason but as it stands now if anything i'd expect to be worse

 

[McRanger]

I don't get this logic.

First, Trouba would immediately slide ahead of these two, possibly putting them in better position to succeed and the Ranger - to know what they have there as you put it. Second, Trouba is still the different type of defenseman from ADA, Fox, Pionk, Lundkvist and Keane so he's not their competition. Third, IMHO he's true 1RD in the NHL and the team does not have 1D on either side for the near future and, moreover, there's no 1RD prospect in the prospect pipeline, so getting one other than via trade or UFA (i.e. via draft) would continue the void until at least 4-5 years down the road and that's being optimistic.

The logic is being cautious.

Why would we send what would almost certainly be a large package to acquire a defenseman who has missed the equivalent of a full season out of the six seasons hes played?

And we're either trading roster players or picks/prospects for Trouba. The latter is the opposite of what a rebuilding team should do. And the former? This team could be a disaster until Trouba is in his late 20s (even with Trouba and without losing our few NHL caliber players to get him) and we're hoping age is going to make him more durable?

Also the idea that we dont have a #1RD in the system is asinine the same way it was asinine when we definitely didn't have a future #1LD anywhere when we had McDonagh in the system. We don't know what we have in some of these players, but we should have a better idea after this season, which is the point. And that is even assuming we need to commit big money and term to a star on the right side, a position so critical it was occupied by Dan Girardi the last time the team had any success.

Honestly there is nothing appealing at this stage about trading prime assets for an injury prone player with an uncertain contractual status aside from being able to say we traded for a player that earned his #1RD merit badge.

The logical thing would be to keep doing what is working. Stop chasing big names and labels and continue building towards sustained success.

 

[Beacon]

Contending for a playoff spot = Winning a Stanley Cup next year?

So we're outbidding other teams to sign a UFA whose contract will be an anchor on the team when Kakko, Kravtsov, K'Andre, Chytil, etc enter their prime so we could contend for the 2020 playoffs? Not even have any certainty to make it, just contend?

 

[I Eat Crow]

How are the Rangers going to be a better team next year?

They are losing Hayes and Zuccarello from last year. Maybe even Kreider. The same suspects are still around on defense. Kakko, Kravtsov, and another year of growth from Howden, Andersson, and Chytil is not going to offset losing the aforementioned players....yet. The defense is still a mess and Lundqvist is another year older and slower. Unless he, Georgiev, and Shestyorkin split the load three ways (what I would do), Lundqvist is going to drag the team down if he plays more than 50 games this year.

 

[Beacon]

What’s left to rebuild? There’s no one left to trade other than maybe Kreider

Kreider gets a very significant return, but also Names, Vesey and Fast get 2nd or 3rd rounders (depending on how their seasons go) at the 2020 TDL, and Shatty, Smith and Staal get the same at the 2021 TDL when their contracts no longer matter. That's 6 lottery tickets to try to hit on boom/bust prospects. Combined, I think there's a pretty good chance we get a good player out of at least 1 of 6 picks.

 

[Richard Banger]

How are the Rangers going to be a better team next year?

They are losing Hayes and Zuccarello from last year. Maybe even Kreider. The same suspects are still around on defense. Kakko, Kravtsov, and another year of growth from Howden, Andersson, and Chytil is not going to offset losing the aforementioned players....yet. The defense is still a mess and Lundqvist is another year older and slower. Unless he, Georgiev, and Shestyorkin split the load three ways (what I would do), Lundqvist is going to drag the team down if he plays more than 50 games this year.

I think we are looking to much individually and not as a whole. I think they overachieve this year and sneak into the playoffs.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think we are looking to much individually and not as a whole. I think they overachieve this year and sneak into the playoffs.

I heard the same thing last year.

They need even more to go right for them this season. Plus Staal can't play.

 

[Off Sides]

trouba might not be the right guy, but he's 25. same age as Skjei and almost a year younger than mika... he might be the wrong guy for other reasons but I think he is the perfect age to be a veteran on this team. everyone can't be under 23...

I agree, yet I think he is the wrong guy, yet it's partially due to his next contract and trade value.

I just don't put him among the upper echelon defenders in terms of being able to do it all.

He is not a gifted puck mover or PP player. His stats tell a story about passing to guys who can carry the puck, and tend to shoot and score a lot. I foresee him on the Rangers as an 8M cap hit defensive defender where the Rangers are going to rather play others if they are needing a goal or on the PP and I just don't see that as assets well traded for or cap money well spent.

 

[JimmyG89]

No way this is a playoff team next year. There will be development, but with young players is inconsistency. Kakko will have times when he is down. Same for Kravtsov. Chytil is still learning. Same for Andersson and Howden. Fox will hit the college wall.

Can ADA play like he did the last half of the season over the full year? Is Pionk going to get significant ice time? If he does, it's not going to go well. The left side, sans Skjei, is still Smith and Staal OR rookies. Talented rookies, but guys with less than 10 NHL games right now (Rykov, Lindgren, Hajek).

Buchnevich needs to play close to 80 games. He's gotten hurt each season and missed a chunk of the year. He also needs to play like he did the 2nd half. Is Zibanejad locked into a 70 point guy or will that drop closer to 60? He won't have Zuccarello and possibly Kreider to help him.

Anyone prognosticating this roster for next season and saying to themselves, "that's a playoff roster right now" is going to be in for a rude awakening.

Record in 2019: 15-22-7
Record after the ASB: 11-16-7
Record after the TDL: 5-10-5

Yes, we will have an infusion of young talent, but these guys are gonna need time. There are going to be a large chunk of players on the roster without even 100 games in the NHL. I'm counting 8 for sure at the start of the season (Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, Andersson, Howden, Georgiev/Shesterkin, Fox, Lemieux) with the possibility of a few others (Rykov/Lindgren/Hajek/Lettieri/Gettinger).

These types of teams do not get into the playoffs, but I can see a 2nd half push because they'll be beyond the adjustment period and have some experience to draw back on.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

If our young players take a step forward this year, they'll basically be replacing the production of Hayes and Zucc...who were here when we were still a bad team with the least amount of ROW in the league.