Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIII

[True Blue]

Thank you to you and @haveandare as well as others for explaining this simple point.

Also doesnt mean the rebuild is over because we sign Panarin. It doesnt.

Stanley Cup contenders next year? No. But the rebuild is not over yet. My belief is that this team as is (even with Panarin instead of Kreider, or heck even with Kreider) is a lottery team. We can certainly debate what happens during a rebuild or where the team resides within the capital structure of the rebuild.

Sometimes this board reflects the polarization that we see in society. I am right and you are wrong. Not only am I right, but you are an idiot because you do not subscribe to my point of view. Nor do I need to give you any reasoning for my thinking.

My belief is that rebuilding teams do not go out and sign the top UFAs to long term deals as these players will not resemble the types of players they are today when the team is ready to truly compete. More than likely, the team bottoms out next year. Then they begin to rise and grow. Yeah, it is not unreasonable to think that this team is 3-4 years away from competing for the one thing that we hope they compete for.

 

[Leetch3]

I said this originally but I really didn’t see Rykov signing if there wasn’t some sort of discussion pertaining to opportunity in next years blue line.

Skjei
Staal
Smith

Shattenkirk
ADA
Pionk

Claesson is RFA

Hajek
Lindgren
Rykov
Fox

Something should give on defense. The team will be better off giving at least one of those guys meaningful NHL minutes next year. Out of the three, I’d probably lean towards the older Rykov due to his experience in the KHL

the discussion probably went something like 'have you seen the blueline we have? if you don't have the confidence in yourself to come into camp and show us that you deserve to play over those guys then i don't know what to tell you' lol

but seriously I think Smith is your spare in the press box. barring injuries or kids falling on their faces, he is more likely to be on the 4th line again than the blueline. Skjei and Staal will be in the lineup...and claesson could be insurance if the kids aren't ready. But your first true battle will be hajek vs lindgren vs rykov for the 3rd LD spot. it's not a guaranteed spot, but given his age and experience against pros, rykov should have as good a shot at making it as the other 2.

but rykov also has a bunch of experience playing on the right side too...on the right side ADA and shattenkirk (until he gets hurt again) are probably in the lineup to start the year, but rykov could potentially battle pionk and fox for the last RD spot.

so far from a guarantee but he has a definite opportunity and IMO that opportunity won't get better next year if hajek/lindgren/fox establish themselves as NHLers this year and you could potentially have miller/lundqvist in the mix next year. so now is as good a time as any for Rykov to take his shot...

I just hope that Rykov is open to spending time in the AHL if needed. if his dream is to play in the NHL he might have to do that. I totally get him not wanting to play in the AHL when he can make more $$ in russia. and if he isn't even close and would end up spending the whole year in the AHL then just go back to the KHL. but if he's close and one of the final cuts, hopefully he'd be willing to spend some time down there waiting for his opportunity...

and I have confidence in gorton that if multiple kids come into camp and show they are ready and belong in the nhl he will find ways to move out vets to clear spots...but he isn't going to move those guys first just to hope that the kids are ready.

 

[NYR Viper]

the discussion probably went something like 'have you seen the blueline we have? if you don't have the confidence in yourself to come into camp and show us that you deserve to play over those guys then i don't know what to tell you' lol

but seriously I think Smith is your spare in the press box. barring injuries or kids falling on their faces, he is more likely to be on the 4th line again than the blueline. Skjei and Staal will be in the lineup...and claesson could be insurance if the kids aren't ready. But your first true battle will be hajek vs lindgren vs rykov for the 3rd LD spot. it's not a guaranteed spot, but given his age and experience against pros, rykov should have as good a shot at making it as the other 2.

but rykov also has a bunch of experience playing on the right side too...on the right side ADA and shattenkirk (until he gets hurt again) are probably in the lineup to start the year, but rykov could potentially battle pionk and fox for the last RD spot.

so far from a guarantee but he has a definite opportunity and IMO that opportunity won't get better next year if hajek/lindgren/fox establish themselves as NHLers this year and you could potentially have miller/lundqvist in the mix next year. so now is as good a time as any for Rykov to take his shot...

I just hope that Rykov is open to spending time in the AHL if needed. if his dream is to play in the NHL he might have to do that. I totally get him not wanting to play in the AHL when he can make more $$ in russia. and if he isn't even close and would end up spending the whole year in the AHL then just go back to the KHL. but if he's close and one of the final cuts, hopefully he'd be willing to spend some time down there waiting for his opportunity...

and I have confidence in gorton that if multiple kids come into camp and show they are ready and belong in the nhl he will find ways to move out vets to clear spots...but he isn't going to move those guys first just to hope that the kids are ready.

This is all probably true but we know organizations lean on vets if they’re making big money. I hope not but we’ve seen it. Hopefully he shows well and becomes that solid 2nd pairing guy he’s projected as.

 

[True Blue]

Yep. Gorton has his hands full trying to clear up the logjam on defense. Getting ice time for Hajek, Lindgren and now Fox and Rykov (both didn't come here to play in Hartford) needs to be priority. And that's already with DeAngelo and Skjei locked in for top 4 minutes.

I highly doubt anyone takes on Staal, Shattenkirk or Smith's contracts. And the first two would have to waive as well.

Pionk is the odd man out and moved for whatever at the draft. Would not be totally opposed to trading Skjei either.

And despite allllllll of that, we are still being linked to Karlsson and adding him to this mess? It's simply not feasible.

Short of just scratching Shattenkirk, I am not sure what else can be done. I think the perception around here of how tradeable he is and what his value is, tends to be distorted from reality. Same goes for Smith, but at least he can be an overpaid 4th liner who gets his 8 minues and can drop back on D in an emergency. Let's face it, I would rather he got the least amount of minutes on the 4th, as opposed to some rookie that should be developing.

I think that Staal is here for the duration of his contract. That said, he can still be the respected elder statesman and have his playing time cut in half. That is how you can get Lindgren and Hajek their ice time. One of them starts each game and both play when Staal is scratched.

Am not opposed to moving Pionk, but what is the realistic expectation of what his worth is and if there is a market for him?

I think that they are going to use next year to gauge what they have in Skej. That said, I believe (just like Kreider) that if there is a deal out there for Gorton to move up and get a prospect they want, then Gorton would trade him. But I cannot see a defense with 3-4 rookies on it.

Karlsson is just another instant gratification desire of a faction of the fan base.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

What’s left to rebuild? There’s no one left to trade other than maybe Kreider, and they’re going into the season with the best prospect pool in the league. That is the rebuild.

I’m not advocating we never look towards free agency. All I’m saying is let the dust settle first. Develop those prospects. See what you have. See what you need. Then target players that fit our long term needs in free agency and trades.

 

[eco's bones]

Don't know if it's official but Cap Friendly has the ceiling at $83 mil next year (up 3.5 if true)--the floor is 61.3. Currently they have us at 63.9 ( that includes Beleskey--half of whose salary is going off our cap as soon as heads to Hartford next year)--so that would leave us with about 20 million cap space this coming year and we can add 5 more if Kreider gets dealt for a draft pick. 4 RFA's--Buchnevich should be the most expensive--DeAngelo, Pionk, Lemieux--there is not $10 million there IMO. I'm not breaking the bank for Buchnevich and DeAngelo--they should get nice raises but they have a lot more to prove...but anyway if we've moved Kreider and have $25 mil we've all the cap space we need and still we can buy out or trade Smith, Staal and Shattenkirk if we need more. I'd buy out Smith anyway. Keep in mind as well that if the cap has indeed gone up $3.5 this year--it will probably go up at least another 2--2.5 next year and the year after and the year after that. If we're looking 7 years down the road to when Panarin's contract would expire--a rough guess of the cap is that it will be at least $15 mil (and probably more) higher than it is now, There is also the likelihood that most of our prospects/draft picks now will be 2nd/3rd line forwards or 2nd/3rd pairing D--with some moved on and some busted---because things aren't static and new players will be coming in to replace at least some of those who are prospects now. The Rangers are set up in a very manageable cap situation for at least the next 5 years and probably a lot longer.

It's not a bad thing to always have some space below the ceiling but too much space is wasted space.

 

[NYR Viper]

I’m more inclined to take on bad co tracts this season ala Callahan if they have additional cap space. Hanzal. Nichuskin. He’ll id even take Darling and bury him if paid accordingly.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Rykov has to expect he will spend some time in Hartford. The game is different here, not many dmen can jump from there to here seamlessly. It would do him a disservice to start on the nhl club.

 

[Anzi]

Rykov has to expect he will spend some time in Hartford. The game is different here, not many dmen can jump from there to here seamlessly. It would do him a disservice to start on the nhl club.

Will he be amiable to that though? I thought a major factor in him being reluctant to come over was that he would make so much less money in the AHL compared to the KHL.

 

[I Eat Crow]

I think Rykov plays this coming season in the KHL regardless of how he plays in training camp. Too few openings at the NHL level. Signing him was just done to get him into training camp this year. He'll compete for a spot in 2020-21.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Stanley Cup contenders next year? No. But the rebuild is not over yet. My belief is that this team as is (even with Panarin instead of Kreider, or heck even with Kreider) is a lottery team. We can certainly debate what happens during a rebuild or where the team resides within the capital structure of the rebuild.

Sometimes this board reflects the polarization that we see in society. I am right and you are wrong. Not only am I right, but you are an idiot because you do not subscribe to my point of view. Nor do I need to give you any reasoning for my thinking.

My belief is that rebuilding teams do not go out and sign the top UFAs to long term deals as these players will not resemble the types of players they are today when the team is ready to truly compete. More than likely, the team bottoms out next year. Then they begin to rise and grow. Yeah, it is not unreasonable to think that this team is 3-4 years away from competing for the one thing that we hope they compete for.

The only problem is that you need good players at this point to isolate the young guys so they dont get put in over their head and get discouraged. It also doesnt help when you know your team sucks and have no legitimate chance at playoffs, players dont want to play in that environment. Panarin should be effective for most if not all of his contract and with the cap continuing to go up his contract should get lower percentage wise when or if his production slows. I have no problem adding him and he is pretty much the only one, Karlsson no thanks. Adding Kakko and Kravtsov, and being able to play them on say the 3rd line with Strome, sheltering them from other teams top lines would go a long way to their development instead of pushing them off the high diving board.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Will he be amiable to that though? I thought a major factor in him being reluctant to come over was that he would make so much less money in the AHL compared to the KHL.

It’d be sacrificing money in the very short term (probably a few months to a full season) to make way more money long term

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[LORDE]

RANGERS AND LINDY RUFF LIKELY TO PART WAYS

Rangers and Lindy Ruff likely to part ways - FOREVER BLUESHIRTS

Not trying to be a jerk... is there info in there that this is anything but a speculation? Yeah Quinn had his buddy upstairs but how does that mean Lindy is gone?

 

[Irishguy42]

Not trying to be a jerk... is there info in there that this is anything but a speculation? Yeah Quinn had his buddy upstairs but how does that mean Lindy is gone?

It's just FullTilt being bad, as usual.

The clickbait title being used for simply posting a tweet with info that was known days before. They conveniently pulled the "per source" out of their title, because that was on there originally making it seem like they had a breaking scoop on Ruff being out. And it's not like him interviewing for the Sabres HC position means the Rangers are done with him.

Yes, I think Ruff has a non-zero percent chance of not being with the team in the next year or two. But this is just shoddy blogging, per usual, from FT.

 

[Minmonster]

I could see a team taking a shot at either smith or shattenkirk at 50% retained. Buying out staal would cost something like 3.6 next year and 1.3 for the following 2. Seems worth it to me. I can't stomach watching any of them anymore.
Agree with whoever posted that the team can't be completely stripped of veterans. Need to keep a competitive culture in place

 

[Ola]

There are not many LDs available on the UFA market. Could that mean that Smith could be moved?

I am not sure if there is any team out there that has an opening at LD. Can’t be many? I think best case Gorts can retain and take back some bad contracts that only has a year left or something.

 

[Minmonster]

I take buying staal out back. It would be 2.9 this year, 3.7 next and 1.2 for the last 2. Not worth it while we have the space. Maybe he can retire and take over for ruff if his experience is so valuable

 

[Shesterkybomb]

There are not many LDs available on the UFA market. Could that mean that Smith could be moved?

I am not sure if there is any team out there that has an opening at LD. Can’t be many? I think best case Gorts can retain and take back some bad contracts that only has a year left or something.

Is Smith a even ld at this point? He hasnt looked like one in 2 years. To me he looked more like a 4th line forward last year.

 

[darko]

I take buying staal out back. It would be 2.9 this year, 3.7 next and 1.2 for the last 2. Not worth it while we have the space. Maybe he can retire and take over for ruff if his experience is so valuable

No point in buying out Staal or Smith.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I know he is still a kid but so far I'm a little disappointed in Chytil at the world championship. I kinda thought he would have had a good tournament there.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I know he is still a kid but so far I'm a little disappointed in Chytil at the world championship. I kinda thought he would have had a good tournament there.

Not all that unexpected, he’s 19 and finished a season where he said he was exhausted towards the end of it injured. I think getting into a few games is an accomplishment in itself

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Not trying to be a jerk... is there info in there that this is anything but a speculation? Yeah Quinn had his buddy upstairs but how does that mean Lindy is gone?

The most logical solution is Ruff to headcoach Hartford Wolfpack and his old time assistant James Patrick and somebody else hired as his assistants.

 

[Leetch3]

The most logical solution is Ruff to headcoach Hartford Wolfpack and his old time assistant James Patrick and somebody else hired as his assistants.

if by logical solution you mean my nightmares then ok

 

[Ola]

1. I don’t get why people are afraid of Karlsson? Hank has been pimping the Rangers for him, wining and dining him. He went to Gorts who told him to not keep his breath. Hank all of a sudden decided to go to the WFH and spoke to the reporter at Expressen. It’s clear as day.

2. Why is Carp singing that Gorts looking to accelerate the rebuild? He is desperate, he wants Gorts to be afraid of Carp drumming up some expectations and to sneak him some tibit to shut up. Clear as day.

3. Gorts will make sure that we enter next season with NHL depth at all positions, competition in camp. That will be the big difference compared to last season. Much of that competition will probably come from kids though. Rykov vs Hajak. Lias vs Strome vs Chytil. And so forth.

4. Gorts will be open to make a big trade. When he says that we will explore all options, it’s true. He don’t know what he will do. Why? Because it’s contingent of what others will do. I wouldn’t rule out that he will check in on Panarin, but I think it’s a long shot. Panarin won’t push extremely hard to come here and Gorton won’t blow everyone else away with an insane offer. Just unlikely on so many levels.

I can see Gorts discussing Trouba. Discussing Nylander. All are long shots, if you have enough irons in the fire something can happen on some front. All of a sudden Calgary deals Tkachuk, something like that. Nobody really believed Calgary would trade Phaneuf pretty cheap before they did, nobody really thought MTL were trading Subban. Will Winnipeg trade Laine? Of course it seems very unlikely. But I think many GMs are looking at all options, and when many are doing that it’s not unlikely that something gets done. Gorts will be in all those talks. You can bet on it.

You cannot build a roster today that is cheap to like 1/2 or even 1/3, like Detroit and Pittsburgh have done. Kids get paid early, the vets who nobody else wants are just worthless. A contenders lineup will cost you from top to bottom. Hence performance/cap hit is just as important as performance. Few teams will be in on big contracts if they are moved and the price won’t be high. It’s better to say it in this context — not in relation to a specific name. Look at what Karlsson fetched Ottawa.

5. Gorton has cap space and intends to use it. Is that BS too? Nah, that I don’t doubt. But listen, it will not exactly be — hard — for Gorton to use his cap space. Resign the RFAs, and we won’t have a ton of cap space left.

Gorts want to move out contracts, almost have to. Shatty at least. But to do so he has to take contracts back. Come out of the trade circus equation with — one — more contract for next year than he entered it with and we won’t have any cap space.

6. Last season had a lot of action. I counted about 15 players on contract that was traded, excluding ELCs and AHLers etc.

15. Toronto must trade 2-3 guys. Winnipeg 2-3 guys. Calgary 2-3 guys. Gorton is moving 3-4 guys, supposedly. There was a thread at the main board, everyone had their team certainly trading at least 2 and preferably 3 contracts. That would mean that 90 players are traded this summer which is up 600% from the year before.

Likely? It’s of course not happening, not 30 either. If you can move a contract just to make room or whatever, congratulation. I think Vesey and Namestnikov are here on opening night. If both of them are still here, we don’t have a ton of openings.