Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIII

[duhmetreE]

In case you haven't noticed, there is a significant contingent of posters who see us competing for the cup as soon as next year.

No.

 

[haohmaru]

In case you haven't noticed, there is a significant contingent of posters who see us competing for the cup as soon as next year.

Who? Back it up or back off. I don't see anyone saying we're Cup contenders next year.

 

[Leetch3]

Who? Back it up or back off. I don't see anyone saying we're Cup contenders next year.

I don't have names and not going back to look but you aren't paying attention if you aren't seeing people declare the rebuild over once we got the #2 pick and that think that if we sign panarin and karlsson we can be contenders next year cause a few upsets this year proved anyone can win...of course I think most of those people were never on board with the rebuild in the first place so their impatience has been consistent

 

[duhmetreE]

I don't have names and not going back to look but you aren't paying attention if you aren't seeing people declare the rebuild over once we got the #2 pick and that think that if we sign panarin and karlsson we can be contenders next year cause a few upsets this year proved anyone can win...of course I think most of those people were never on board with the rebuild in the first place so their impatience has been consistent

Contending for a playoff spot = Winning a Stanley Cup next year?

 

[aufheben]

Why do we need either player as a rebuilding team?

What’s left to rebuild? There’s no one left to trade other than maybe Kreider, and they’re going into the season with the best prospect pool in the league. That is the rebuild.

I don't have names and not going back to look but you aren't paying attention if you aren't seeing people declare the rebuild over once we got the #2 pick and that think that if we sign panarin and karlsson we can be contenders next year cause a few upsets this year proved anyone can win...of course I think most of those people were never on board with the rebuild in the first place so their impatience has been consistent

There’s a phase between rebuilding and contending. I don’t generally consider signing UFAs to be “win-now” moves, that is stuff like overpaying for role players at the trade deadline.

 

[haohmaru]

I don't have names and not going back to look but you aren't paying attention if you aren't seeing people declare the rebuild over once we got the #2 pick and that think that if we sign panarin and karlsson we can be contenders next year cause a few upsets this year proved anyone can win...of course I think most of those people were never on board with the rebuild in the first place so their impatience has been consistent

You're not going to look it up because it isn't there. There are people saying we might compete for a playoff spot next year with Kakko, Kravstov, and certain UFA signings but I've literally seen NO ONE saying we're a Cup contender in '19-20 much less a "significant" number. It's BS.

 

[Leetch3]

What’s left to rebuild? There’s no one left to trade other than maybe Kreider, and they’re going into the season with the best prospect pool in the league. That is the rebuild.

no that is not the rebuild. selling off players to stockpile assets is one PHASE of the rebuild. those prospects still need to develop and grow which requires time and they won't all work out...

 

[Leetch3]

You're not going to look it up because it isn't there. There are people saying we might compete for a playoff spot next year with Kakko, Kravstov, and certain UFA signings but I've literally seen NO ONE saying we're a Cup contender in '19-20 much less a "significant" number. It's BS.

you are right. no one says 19-20, they are scheduling the parade for 20-21.

 

[Kovalev27]

I gotta say Georgiev looks outstanding has all tourney. I love everything about this kid. Going to be a very interesting decision to make come 2020-21

 

[Leetch3]

What’s left to rebuild? There’s no one left to trade other than maybe Kreider, and they’re going into the season with the best prospect pool in the league. That is the rebuild.

There’s a phase between rebuilding and contending. I don’t generally consider signing UFAs to be “win-now” moves, that is stuff like overpaying for role players at the trade deadline.

there are different phases of a rebuild, a rebuild isn't a phase. if you are rebuilding your house, then the rebuild is complete when the new house is done, not when you finish knocking down the old house which is where the team is now. we are arguing semantics here but i'm bored lol

 

[Minmonster]

I'd like to see the Rangers buy out staal, trade smith at 50% retained and trade shatty at the deadline with the hope his game improves and he increases his trade value.
I know that I will get crucified but I think that hank may have had enough and will agree to be traded to a contender
Stay away from panaren and ek. I've seen that scenario too many times and it never ends well. I could be on board with the idea of trading krieder for subban

How about #20, both 2019 2nds and pionk to Tampa for cally and point. I would love to find a way to get him.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I'd like to see the Rangers buy out staal, trade smith at 50% retained and trade shatty at the deadline with the hope his game improves and he increases his trade value.
I know that I will get crucified but I think that hank may have had enough and will agree to be traded to a contender
Stay away from panaren and ek. I've seen that scenario too many times and it never ends well. I could be on board with the idea of trading krieder for subban

How about #20, both 2019 2nds and pionk to Tampa for cally and point. I would love to find a way to get him.

I don’t see any of that happening. And Tampa would be trading Callahan to keep Point

 

[haohmaru]

you are right. no one says 19-20, they are scheduling the parade for 20-21.

I don't see much of that either. I think that some people think we'll be competitive, or competing for a playoff spot, by 20-21. I don't see much prognostication that we're winning the Cup then.

But, hey, 3.33% of the league wins the Cup every year so the odds aren't all that great. You need the right lineup, the right luck, the right matchups, the right amount of time off and not off, the right momentum going into the playoffs, etc... Thinking that we've drafted a guy in the top 3, or two, means that we're winning the Cup is nonsense anyway.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Rangers shouldnt be buying anyone out it just extends their drain on the cap into a timeframe where we might need that space. We dont need the space right now, let them contracts die out or if you can trade them off. I'd rather move someone with salary retained than to buyout, it fits our timeline better.

 

[bobbop]

Sooner or later we'll have to pay these young players. 7 year deals for Panarin and EK stops us from doing that.

Agree with EK, disagree with Panarin. We have little in the way of salary commitments. The difference is the long term physical outlook.

But I do wonder if the injury concerns scare off enough teams that EK is looking at 5 years rather than 7. I’m not advocating here but posing the question that a team may look at a 5 year commitment and decide to suck it up.

 

[Minmonster]

Unless tampa's still in love with Karlson. Maybe you're right but the defense is clogged with old waste and should be Gortons focus to clear at least 2 spots for the prospects.

 

[Minmonster]

Rangers shouldnt be buying anyone out it just extends their drain on the cap into a timeframe where we might need that space. We dont need the space right now, let them contracts die out or if you can trade them off. I'd rather move someone with salary retained than to buyout, it fits our timeline better.

I agree with the premise but retaining 1.3 million for 2 years is not going to cripple the cap situation and the spots are important for developing prospects

 

[RGY]

Come on. I'm not going to do that. But I think I'm actually in the minority, insofar that I believe this rebuild is going to take 3-5 years to actually pay dividends. You can read the past few pages and see that here is a strong contingent of posters who believe we should be signing Panarin and potentially other FA's and that if we do so, we can make the playoffs next year where 'anything can happen.' At worst, this group sees us competing in 2021. Which, again, seems premature to me.



I assume this is a response to my post. I mean, I haven't GM'ed before, but I've watched many rebuilds take place and can't think of one that saw a team become competitive after only one year of rebuilding. I don't know exactly how long a rebuild should and will take, but this just seems like common sense.

I think it's pretty obvious that when a team announces a rebuild like the Rangers did, the plan is not meant to be rapid and short-term, but meant for a few seasons.

Anyway, you can try and be a little less condescending in your posts. You have a tendency to get pretty worked up when people disagree with your point of view.

Oh boy here we go again with the “worked up” comments from the user with the name “faceless”. All too funny. Not allowed to be called out on anything. Not allowed to be disagreed with. Because if you do it just means youre getting “worked up” and youre condescending. Really is too funny

 

[RGY]

Contending for a playoff spot = Winning a Stanley Cup next year?

Thank you to you and @haveandare as well as others for explaining this simple point.

Also doesnt mean the rebuild is over because we sign Panarin. It doesnt.

 

[JT Kreider]

Unless tampa's still in love with Karlson. Maybe you're right but the defense is clogged with old waste and should be Gortons focus to clear at least 2 spots for the prospects.

Yep. Gorton has his hands full trying to clear up the logjam on defense. Getting ice time for Hajek, Lindgren and now Fox and Rykov (both didn't come here to play in Hartford) needs to be priority. And that's already with DeAngelo and Skjei locked in for top 4 minutes.

I highly doubt anyone takes on Staal, Shattenkirk or Smith's contracts. And the first two would have to waive as well.

Pionk is the odd man out and moved for whatever at the draft. Would not be totally opposed to trading Skjei either.

And despite allllllll of that, we are still being linked to Karlsson and adding him to this mess? It's simply not feasible.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

In case you haven't noticed, there is a significant contingent of posters who see us competing for the cup as soon as next year.

I dont think we will nor should we be competing for a cup next year. What we need to be doing as a rebuilding team is acquiring players that make our team better. Subban, though irrelevant to our playoff hopes for next season, is a bigger asset than Shattenkirk on our blueline and will help in 2021/2022 when we actually do start trying to compete and he will have only 1 or 2 years left on his deal. We may not be competing for a cup next year but we are certainly trying to get better, i dont understand why that is such a hard idea to grasp. We need to try and acquire good players when they are available. 30 isnt 40. Subban can be our best dman for 2 or 3 years, if you can get a sale on him for taking the full contract then why not do it to improve the team. It is evident that we will not tank.

 

[eco's bones]

Come on. I'm not going to do that. But I think I'm actually in the minority, insofar that I believe this rebuild is going to take 3-5 years to actually pay dividends. You can read the past few pages and see that here is a strong contingent of posters who believe we should be signing Panarin and potentially other FA's and that if we do so, we can make the playoffs next year where 'anything can happen.' At worst, this group sees us competing in 2021. Which, again, seems premature to me.



I assume this is a response to my post. I mean, I haven't GM'ed before, but I've watched many rebuilds take place and can't think of one that saw a team become competitive after only one year of rebuilding. I don't know exactly how long a rebuild should and will take, but this just seems like common sense.

I think it's pretty obvious that when a team announces a rebuild like the Rangers did, the plan is not meant to be rapid and short-term, but meant for a few seasons.

Anyway, you can try and be a little less condescending in your posts. You have a tendency to get pretty worked up when people disagree with your point of view.

You're muddying the waters though when you go on in a vein that signing one player has anything to do with us shitcanning our rebuild/retool or whatever it is. You're acting as if there is a scripted correct way to go about this (and there's not) and any divergence from that comes with dire consequences and I expect Gorton to be shrewd not dogmatic--and by shrewd what I mean exactly is when he sees an opportunity in whatever shape or form that it comes--to make the team better--that he act on that to the best of his ability. And no one is saying that signing Panarin automatically makes us a Stanley Cup contender next year. Signing Panarin does not mean we're going to stop have draft picks or stop developing younger players. So we have the cap space next year and we're going to have a lot more in two years when Henrik, Shatty, Staal and Smith's current contracts are gone and there may others as well who could be gone with them--like Kreider, Namestnikov, Strome and Vesey.

Panarin is only one player but he's a player that the rest of the team can coalesce around--because he's that good. Two years from now the market is not going to have a player near as good as him and all these young kids we've got are not going to be making big $'s--maybe two/three or four of them. And if you don't think Panarin is the kind of player who can make a Kakko or Kravtsov a better player quicker I don't know what to tell you---he's not a shit player--nor a player with any kind of real injury history. He's very skilled and his hockey IQ is through the roof.

 

[NYR Viper]

I said this originally but I really didn’t see Rykov signing if there wasn’t some sort of discussion pertaining to opportunity in next years blue line.

Skjei
Staal
Smith

Shattenkirk
ADA
Pionk

Claesson is RFA

Hajek
Lindgren
Rykov
Fox

Something should give on defense. The team will be better off giving at least one of those guys meaningful NHL minutes next year. Out of the three, I’d probably lean towards the older Rykov due to his experience in the KHL

 

[Fitzy]

I usually shy away from making too many definitive predictions, but there are very few things that I'm more sure of than that Karlsson would be an extremely disappointing UFA signing.

 

[NYR Viper]

I dont think we will nor should we be competing for a cup next year. What we need to be doing as a rebuilding team is acquiring players that make our team better. Subban, though irrelevant to our playoff hopes for next season, is a bigger asset than Shattenkirk on our blueline and will help in 2021/2022 when we actually do start trying to compete and he will have only 1 or 2 years left on his deal. We may not be competing for a cup next year but we are certainly trying to get better, i dont understand why that is such a hard idea to grasp. We need to try and acquire good players when they are available. 30 isnt 40. Subban can be our best dman for 2 or 3 years, if you can get a sale on him for taking the full contract then why not do it to improve the team. It is evident that we will not tank.

This and if you can get him at $.50 on the $1 and utilize him for 2 years it opens up the possibility of maximizing his value at the deadline or the offseason prior to UFA with some money retained