Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIII

[NYR Viper]

That's totally fine regarding retained salary.

I just hope we leave ourselves with enough veteran leadership. It's not strictly mandatory if you have kids who are ready to be pros, but it helps to have those guys you can default to if someone is over their head or needs a kick.

Too bad someone like Matt Martin is signed to such a rough contract and for the Isles.

I would have traded for Martin last year. I think he would have been a good addition to the bottom line. I’ve mentioned Zack Smith before.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

As of right now, I still don't think its the right move.

My mind may change as of July 1st. If they can snag a Zegras or Nylander out of Toronto, then I'm game.

I'd be hell bent on keeping him away from Zibanejad though. They should be on separate lines to create matchup issues for their opponents.

Nah dude, a line of Kakko/Zibanejad/Panarin could obliterate teams. It’s not like we don’t have depth at forward in this scenario, we have guys like Chytil/Kravstov/Howden/Buch who can potentially be big poducers relative to their role in the middle six.

I don’t think putting our best players together in that scenario makes us top heavy at forward. Imagine we added Nylander to that group as well? Even more reason to put three beasts together. It could lead to insane matchup problems for the other team.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, but you have to think Hughes/Kakko has altered some of the thinking about whatever path they thought they were on. I think they'll be in on Panarin but I'm not all that confident that he comes here.

I think it’s a factor, though I’m not sure how much.

I’ll venture a guess that if they can essentially land Panarin for $3-3.5 million more than Kreider will cost, and move the latter, it’s on the radar. But I do believe it’s one or the other, or neither, for the Rangers. But it’s not both.

Part of me also thinks that the addition of Kakko can also push them to go more organic at this point, with eyes toward the 2019 and 2020 drafts - especially if Zucc resigns in Dallas.

But I think the Rangers would love a hybrid plan where they move Kreider and get a kid they eyed in this draft, and see if they can get Panarin for 5 years and $50 million, and then have a chance at two good first round picks next season.

I think after that, all bets are off.

 

[Edge]

Nah dude, a line of Kakko/Zibanejad/Panarin could obliterate teams. It’s not like we don’t have depth at forward in this scenario, we have guys like Chytil/Kravstov/Howden/Buch who can potentially be big poducers relative to their role in the middle six.

I don’t think putting our best players together in that scenario makes us top heavy at forward. Imagine we added Nylander to that group as well? Even more reason to put three beasts together. It could lead to insane matchup problems for the other team.

I will be surprised if Kakko is on Zibanejad’s right and all three are put together.

I think the Rangers will spread things out a bit. It also remains to be seen how the right handed Zibanejad and the left handed Kakko mesh if they are at center and right wing respectively.

That’s traditionally not always an easy fit.

 

[effen]

I think chemistry happens or it doesn't and worrying about who is with who will sort itself out.

I also think the Rangers could go the rest of our lives not picking up cost offs from bottom 3 orgs (Ottawa and Edmonton spring to mind atm) and do quite well as a franchise.

 

[ETTER DE]

Oh, I agree. Trouba is going to cost, significantly, from now until the trade deadline. Winnipeg would be foolish to pull a CBJ and let the season run its course without moving him for either assets or a player that really wants to play there.

And if he is the guy that Rangers desperately want, they have the assets to overpay for him. And I am fine with that if they think he is the guy.

 

[n8]

Where would you play him? He’s a bottom 6 guy and we’re pretty stacked there unless we trade Vesey, Namestnikov, etc now and not at the deadline. Plus you have to figure the kids are going to rotate in the Quinn bin too and play times in the bottom 6.

"stacked" isn't quite the word as much as log jam. Stacked implies that we have like one of the best bottom sixes which is patently false.

The Blue Jacket's third line (quite possibly their 1st line next season ) was Foligno-Jenner-Atkinson. Pittsburgh's 3rd line is Simon-Bjustad-Hornqvist. Johansson-Coyle-Heinen in Boston. None of our bottom six come close to matching that level of talent and firepower. St Louis has Maroon-Bozak-Thomas & Barbashev-Sundqvist-Steen in their bottom 6. Winnepeg is running Copp-Lowry-Tanev on their 4th line. Point being, there is a log jam in our bottom 6 but we have so far to go to running an enviable bottom 6 that I'd dare called "stacked". Brendan Smith's constant presence in our bottom six should speak mountains of evidence about this fact.

 

[Edge]

And if he is the guy that Rangers desperately want, they have the assets to overpay for him. And I am fine with that if they think he is the guy.

They’re in a somewhat unique spot in the sense that they are legit contender with a lot of talent, so trading for younger talent or picks isn’t necessarily what they’re looking for, but finding a team who is willing to trade a comparable, experienced, cost-controlled player for an expiring contract is somewhat limited.

At the end of the day, I’m just not sure the Rangers are interesting in moving Skjei, picks and/or prospects at this time, with so many unknowns, or that Winnipeg doesn’t feel they have an offer they like more than one last run that includes Trouba .

 

[ETTER DE]

You are right about Winniepeg. They probably want a RD back. But you never know. Maybe they have one in mind. Someone they will need picks and prospects for to do a trade. Since they are contenders they could go for a more established guy, with a couple of years left on the contract.

 

[ETTER DE]

I think Rangers wants a couple of players that they know will perform. If Trouba is one of them I dont know.

 

[Edge]

I think Rangers wants a couple of players that they know will perform. If Trouba is one of them I dont know.

I think if he were to hit UFA, they’d be interested.

 

[Cag29]

I do believe that moving Kreider will increase the odds of going after Panarin.

I also believe that either way, the 2020 draft is probably the epilogue of what we’ve seen the last couple of years.

Keep thinking Lucas Raymond.

 

[Cag29]

I will be surprised if Kakko is on Zibanejad’s right and all three are put together.

I think the Rangers will spread things out a bit. It also remains to be seen how the right handed Zibanejad and the left handed Kakko mesh if they are at center and right wing respectively.

That’s traditionally not always an easy fit.

Assuming Kreider traded and we signed Panarin.
Top 6:
Panarin. Zibby. Buch.
Kravstov. Chityl. Kakko.
Too soft? Lots of skill.
Strome could slot in if Chityl struggles.

 

[Edge]

Assuming Kreider traded and we signed Panarin.
Top 6:
Panarin. Zibby. Buch.
Kravstov. Chityl. Kakko.
Too soft? Lots of skill.
Strome could slot in if Chityl struggles.

I don’t see Kravtsov and Kakko necessarily starting together in the top six. It’s going to be an adjustment for both and I think the Rangers, who will need to be creative to have a vet on each line as it is, probably won’t inherently start two rookies together - especially when they would flank centers who have less than 100 games of NHL experience in guys like Chytil, Howden, Andersson, or even Nieves.

The less sexy reality is that we’re probably looking at guys like Names, Strome, Fast and maybe a free agent signing getting some minutes to start the year. By the mid-point things could evolve, but this is shaping up to be a VERY young team.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I think if he were to hit UFA, they’d be interested.

I'd really love to know who Gorton is viewing as pieces that he believes can actively contribute to what they're building now for next season, as well as for what they're building for the future in the upcoming years. I think he's trying to figure out who his next Zibanejad acquisition can be, and they definitely have the capital to make a move for that piece. Like we keep saying, at some point, they'll have to identify and prioritize quality over quantity.

 

[Edge]

I'd really love to know who Gorton is viewing as pieces that he believes can actively contribute to what they're building now for next season, as well as for what they're building for the future in the upcoming years. I think he's trying to figure out who his next Zibanejad acquisition can be, and they definitely have the capital to make a move for that piece. Like we keep saying, at some point, they'll have to identify and prioritize quality over quantity.

Purely a guess, but I think he’s open to most things - but has a clear idea of how much he is willing to pay, and not much more.

I think he’s also cerebral about his approach and move 3 in July, might be linked to the ability to pull off moves 1 and 2 in June. And if he pulls of 1, but not 2, then 3 can go on hold or he goes with 3B.

Whether fans always agree with the moves of this front office or not, it is widely respected around the league. And at this point, Gorton has a pretty good idea what different GMs are seeking, or might be interested in.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I'd really love to know who Gorton is viewing as pieces that he believes can actively contribute to what they're building now for next season, as well as for what they're building for the future in the upcoming years. I think he's trying to figure out who his next Zibanejad acquisition can be, and they definitely have the capital to make a move for that piece. Like we keep saying, at some point, they'll have to identify and prioritize quality over quantity.

The thought of Gorton prowling for another Zbad is hot

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I will be surprised if Kakko is on Zibanejad’s right and all three are put together.

I think the Rangers will spread things out a bit. It also remains to be seen how the right handed Zibanejad and the left handed Kakko mesh if they are at center and right wing respectively.

That’s traditionally not always an easy fit.

I think they’ll be fine. Some of Zibby’s best passes are nasty backhand sauce, and who better to finish that off than Kakko? I mean, Zibanejad meshed just fine with Buch, who is also a lefty right winger.

 

[Edge]

I think they’ll be fine. Some of Zibby’s best passes are nasty backhand sauce, and who better to finish that off than Kakko? I mean, Zibanejad meshed just fine with Buch, who is also a lefty right winger.

Okay seriously, I am about to throw my phone across the room with these damn ads. I don’t need the god damn solution to pearly white teeth. I’ve never even had a cavity in my life

With that said, I’ll be curious to see how Kakko looks.

A lot of left shooting right wings struggle with right handed centers, depending on they like to receive with their backhand. Jagr touched on this when explaining why he and Mario didn’t play together often, and I believe others have touched on it over the years (I remember Amonte did in Chicago).

Looking at Kakko’s style, I think it’s definitely something to keep an eye on and not necessarily to be surprised by.

 

[aufheben]

Having the best prospect pool is part of the rebuild, but it isn’t the whole rebuild.

There’s still some time needed for development and sorting out what we actually have, compared to what we think/hope we have.

And while Kreider is probably the last bigger asset to sell, it’s still a sizable asset that could result in either a third round first round pick this season, or part of a trio of first rounders next year.

So we still have anywhere from 3-5 first round picks to make over the next 13 months, and then have to sort through and develop what we have.

I guess it just depends on your definition. Rebuild, Post-Rebuild, Pre-Contend, III Trimester, whatever, I think they're past the phase where signing free agents would actually hamper the process. There are a billion wildcards this year, so who knows.

 

[darko]

Okay seriously, I am about to throw my phone across the room with these damn ads. I don’t need the god damn solution to pearly white teeth. I’ve never even had a cavity in my life

That's because you are not from England. We have to cater for everyone.

 

[egelband]

That's because you are not from England. We have to cater for everyone.

Lay off the POMs. It's just Monday.

 

[RGY]

Stanley Cup contenders next year? No. But the rebuild is not over yet. My belief is that this team as is (even with Panarin instead of Kreider, or heck even with Kreider) is a lottery team. We can certainly debate what happens during a rebuild or where the team resides within the capital structure of the rebuild.

Sometimes this board reflects the polarization that we see in society. I am right and you are wrong. Not only am I right, but you are an idiot because you do not subscribe to my point of view. Nor do I need to give you any reasoning for my thinking.

My belief is that rebuilding teams do not go out and sign the top UFAs to long term deals as these players will not resemble the types of players they are today when the team is ready to truly compete. More than likely, the team bottoms out next year. Then they begin to rise and grow. Yeah, it is not unreasonable to think that this team is 3-4 years away from competing for the one thing that we hope they compete for.

True Blue I would like for you or some of the other “contingent” of posters to point out where I have blatantly said ‘you are wrong, you are an idiot, and your opinion is stupid because I don’t agree with it.’

Go ahead, I will wait. Because I think words are getting completely misconstrued.

I have only acknowledged that it is very possible your beliefs and path you suggest is the one Gorton/Drury and now JD will ultimately take. I have said I would be understanding about it and would not be mad, over and over again, if we dont resign Kreider and/or sign Panarin. Do I completely agree with it? No because I do not believe that is best for the continued progression of Zibanejad who I think is vital to the center position for us especially if we do draft Kakko and Chytil does end up on the wing permanently. Continued progress of ADA and Buchnevich. The culture and environment is crucial for the kids.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

True Blue I would like for you or some of the other “contingent” of posters to point out where I have blatantly said ‘you are wrong, you are an idiot, and your opinion is stupid because I don’t agree with it.’

Go ahead, I will wait. Because I think words are getting completely misconstrued.

I have only acknowledged that it is very possible your beliefs and path you suggest is the one Gorton/Drury and now JD will ultimately take. I have said I would be understanding about it and would not be mad, over and over again, if we dont resign Kreider and/or sign Panarin. Do I completely agree with it? No because I do not believe that is best for the continued progression of Zibanejad who I think is vital to the center position for us especially if we do draft Kakko and Chytil does end up on the wing permanently. Continued progress of ADA and Buchnevich. The culture and environment is crucial for the kids.

Just because you avoid calling someone an idiot, doesn't mean your posts don't read as hostile.

Let me just put it this way, whether or not you mean to come off as frustrated in your posts, that is HOW you are coming off. Thus, if you don't recognize that, you should try to see why others read them as such and then consider adjusting.

Much of our convo on this board, due to our summer starting early, has revolved around this notion of which path is best for our squad. It's one large circle that won't end until Panarin signs with us, or elsewhere.

As you are well aware, I personally am staunchly against signing any big FA's this summer. That being said, I don't assume that just because another poster wants to, that they are an idiot.

I feel that the posters that agree with me are a minority, but even if they're not, it is pretty close to 50/50. And you are one of the few that seems to get frustrated when that opposing group speaks up.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Oh boy here we go again with the “worked up” comments from the user with the name “faceless”. All too funny. Not allowed to be called out on anything. Not allowed to be disagreed with. Because if you do it just means youre getting “worked up” and youre condescending. Really is too funny

For example this post. You don't even realize how condescending it is for you to say, welp, 'Faceless' posts just shut down the board. It's so over the top and unnecessary and literally adds nothing to the conversation. Nowhere did I say that my opinion is the right one. Nor did I try to attack those who had differing opinions. I simply stated my response to another poster's opinion. Something we do all day around here.

And I don't even understand the reference to my username. Maybe this is the reason you react so negatively to my on-topic posts. For whatever reason, you really hate my username, which actually has no meaning to me other than it was anonymous and that's what I prefer to be on a message board. But personally attacking that is an unnecessary act that comes off as hostile.

Like I just don't get it how you don't see that you're being kinda rude.