Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIII
- Thread starter Fugazy
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Its not easy, and I am a bit torn in all kind of directions.
I would rather not see Buch traded. I think Gorts has the perfect opportunity to lock him up long term to a very good contract. I think that Buch has all kinds of growth potential. Despite that, and the magnitude of this is not small, despite from being far from his peak level in terms of physics and effectiveness etc, he has been a steady 0.5 PPG player. Most high upside kids never even become steady 0.5 PPG players. Can he be signed for like 5 years at 5m per? The first 36 months, there are no deal restrictions. No NMCs/NTCs.
I could easily see him taking another step and becoming more of a 6-7m player. A 60 pts player.
My biggest fear right now is Gorts bridging Buchnevich. With a limited amount of cap space production/cap-hit is all that matters. Buch should have a lot of upside to provide a very good production/cap-hit if we lock him up now. I think its extremely important that we realize that we must build on what we have, we cannot believe that its possible to bring in help from the outside or even get an immidiate impact from draft players either (Kakko included). Hockey is a team game, and you need to adjust to your team, make it work on a specific team. Production at one place don't equal production at another place. We have invested 6 years in Buchnevich and done a good job up until now.
If the grass is not green enough with him, its never going to be green enough. I think this is a big litmus test for Gorton. Its his -- this organization's -- responsibility. We can't always ask 'what has he done to deserve' X or Y. We keep deferring responsibility to big names from other places. If we cannot make it work with Buch, we can just close shop. We wouldn't be paying Buch for something he is not, he has a steady production for the last 3 seasons. That is what he will get paid for. Those numbers aren't inflated.
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
I don't like Trouba as much as others, so no.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
Is it that simple though? Yes, the state of our defense undoubtedly prohibits us from competing next year (and probably for another 2). However, it looks somewhat promising once we move past that and fits the timeline quite well in that sense.
ADA, Fox, Hajek, Lindgren, Rykov are all on the cusp of being NHL ready (surely not all will pan out, but that's 5 right on the doorstep). Miller, Lundkvist, Keane, etc...are a few years off, but represent strong prospects.
Buch and whoever we draft at 20 would strengthen that squad down the line, whereas Trouba, who has quite a sketchy injury history, is not necessarily a sure thing.
It's an interesting proposal, but I'd probably pass and see what opportunities arise in 2 years if one of our guys doesn't emerge as a top pairing guy.
A lot of RD seen available this year but cost likely hight
I just think in their perfect world they move Shattenkirk out and bring a more 2way Dman back this offseason
Buchnevich is a good trade chip w Pionk or DeAngelo
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TheBloodyNine
Pure Bred Soviet Savage
Chase him where? After losing at least two top tier free agents this summer Columbus is going to give him everything he wants to lock him up long term.
egelband
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- Sep 6, 2008
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There's a popular conception that the Rangers defense sucks. But i think that first of all, we need to determine what defence means.
Stopping the opponent from getting quality chances? I'd argue that's a team issue which results from effort and system. I think it will be much better next year. And I think it was improved this past year from AV's last season.
Or are we talking about the six players who line up in the Defense position each game. In that case I'd say the Rangers have a mix of promising players and a few who probably aren't part of the solution but have big contracts. But it's a matter of time there.
Either way, I think the team is going in the right direction.
The defence and the defenders just need time.
Stopping the opponent from getting quality chances? I'd argue that's a team issue which results from effort and system. I think it will be much better next year. And I think it was improved this past year from AV's last season.
Or are we talking about the six players who line up in the Defense position each game. In that case I'd say the Rangers have a mix of promising players and a few who probably aren't part of the solution but have big contracts. But it's a matter of time there.
Either way, I think the team is going in the right direction.
The defence and the defenders just need time.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
on its face its a consideration.
adding trouba and not removing skjei makes the defense stronger. that i like.
still having shatty smith and staal here makes a logjam. that i dont like.
unless we fix that logjam of bad contracts, not sure your proposal makes sense.
Yea I get that . Smith likely easiest to move either eating 50 or a buyout
Staal I doubt goes anywhere but Carolina if they even want him
Shatty May be stuck for another year then they pay his bonus and actual dollars owed is tradeable to a cap floor team . But that’s a year away
Amazing Kreiderman
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East Coast Bias
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Whoever we draft at 20 may not even make the NHL, much less become a top 4 Dman.
It's fine to not want Trouba, but this is crazy.
Would Florida try to acquire Panarin in a sign and trade? Panarin would get the 8th year in that scenario. Columbus recoups some of the draft picks they lost at the deadline. The free agency talking period begins on June 23. Craig Custance mentioned that a possibility in his free agency feature today.
The Panthers are the front runners for his services. Quenneville loves Panarin.
Package deal with Bob. Maybe Florida acquires the rights to both players. 8 years for each of them. They have become best friends. They share the same agent. They are countrymen. Their significant others are close friends too. They vacation together. They went to Miami together on vacation right after the season before going back to Russia.
The Panthers are the front runners for his services. Quenneville loves Panarin.
Package deal with Bob. Maybe Florida acquires the rights to both players. 8 years for each of them. They have become best friends. They share the same agent. They are countrymen. Their significant others are close friends too. They vacation together. They went to Miami together on vacation right after the season before going back to Russia.
I agree with that. Which is why a top line of Kreider, ZBad and Buch is just fine. I am not going to rehash the Kreieder vs. Panarin debate again, we all know the viewpoints. But, again (again), IMO the chances of Panarin performing at the same level in 4 years as he is today is not probable based on what you have seen in the NHL. That added to the fact that his contract will be at least $11m with NTC/NMC is why I am leary of signing him.
I do not believe that at this time, Gorton has interest in trading the assets that he has worked so hard to build up.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
People keep assuming that a Trouba trade is going to be for futures... for what reason I really don't understand. If he gets moved, it's going to be in a hockey trade.
That was not directed at you at all. That was just a general statement. That was not meant to single you out as you are right, you have never said that.
For the record, no one literally stated those words. But that is the sentiment that I pick up from some of these conversations. Again, you are not one such.
I do not disagree. I think that the Jets are a win-now team. When I say assets, I am not just focused on draft picks. I am talking about young players as well. A team that is in their win-now window, will not necessarily want draft picks. They will want good young position players.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
I'm not even convinced that is exactly true. They want good position players who will fit into the team's cap structure. Obviously they don't want someone on the downswing of their career, but "young" I don't really think is the target. For example, if they had a hole at LW, Kreider would be a pretty good target for them. He's not "young," but would fit the goal of a Trouba deal. That would be to have 2 players take up the cap hit Trouba's going to want without substantially hurting the quality of the team (for example, if you get Kreider and re-sign Myers and their combined cap hit is $1m or so more than Trouba, you might be just as well off). They don't really have a hole at LW, but that's the kind of thing they're likely to be looking for.
Which is why people bring up Skjei... because they do have an opening at LD that can be filled via a Trouba trade.
Great point!
A few things to build on this. I think we for a long time have had stretches during which we become way to passive. Under AV's last full season here we had a CF% that was ranked 5th best in the entire league when down by 1 and 24th best in the league when up by 1. I.e. an enormous difference between being down 1 or up 1. And lately that has spilled over more into all situations. But there have still been big changes within games and between games. We have had good games all season, but most of the time we were way to passive for the entire 60 minutes.
A big reason for that is the lack of a D with any kind of size that can play bigger minutes on the right side. Someone that just can be more aggressive, step up earlier and harder. Because most of the time, I think we can get pucks to the back of the net when we attack for about the same rate we have pucks end up in the back of the net when we defend. The problem is just that we so often, most of the time from when we get those long shifts in the 2nd period, are pushed back into a mode where we just fight to gain the redline and make a shift.
You also need that element on the blueline. Its not that you can't carry 5'11 Ds, you can carry 2 or 3 or even 4 of them, but the other guys you have must make up for what they lack. Give the amount of smaller guys we have on the blueline, I really think we need to monitor this going forward.
I get it. But I just do not think that the Jets and Rangers make for good trading partners. If they are dealing Trouba, you would think that the cost is Skej +. What is the+? You are right, no hole at LW so probably not Kreider. Then what? Picks? Not sure that a team like the Jets is looking at it that way as they are in their window.
TheBloodyNine
Pure Bred Soviet Savage
I think Trouba becomes a self-rental for the Jets at this point.
I Eat Crow
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I don't see how the rights to both Panarin and Bob get more than a 2nd rounder out of Florida. The rights to Yandle a couple of years ago were had for only a 6th rounder.
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