Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLII
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Marc Staal has played 840 games for us. 840. If he had better luck it would have been even more, maybe top 3 in games played *from his draft class. Out of the 30 1st round picks he has the 6th most games played. He has been a helluva NHL player. The lottery balls didnt bounce our way but we got a player who has had a very serviceable NHL career. During his playing time we have reached the ECF Twice and SCF once among all the playoff appearances.
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rangers1314
Registered User
No thanks. If we’re looking for short-term commitments at Center I’d much rather investigate Brassard at 1/3-4. He may actually have resale value at the deadline if he has a bounce back year.
Would love to move Vesey and Nams, and get someone like Hagelin or Brassard to fill out the bottom 6. Great role players that can take on PK responsibilities, move up and down the lineup etc., taking away some responsibility from the younger skilled forwards so they can focus on their offensive game.
MrAlmost
Beer league hero.
- Jun 3, 2010
- 2,944
- 3,754
Marc Staal has been a warrior. As bad as he has played at played times, him, and Girardi, have been corner stones of a great defense. These men have given everything and in the case of Staal, he deserves to finish his career how he started. I think girardi wanted to finish as a ranger and that didn’t happen, but that’s the way it goes. I think Staal loves this team and wants to be here through thick and thin. For better or worse.
Lion Hound
Pornhub Enthusiast
$1-2 mil would be a nice inexpensive pickup, however this guy is cooked!
Boy there’s a reason the blues were listening on tarasenko. Teams have figured out how to play him.
Fitness issues. Took him a awhile to get into game shape. Once he did, he was at a 40 goal pace.
Jaromir Jagr
Registered User
Pretty sure he was considering both trades and FA. For which there have been quite a few more.
Stone
Karlsson
Hall
Shea Weber
Subban
Seth Jones
Panarin .
Second Tier Guys:
Duchene - Twice
Kessel
Ryan Johansen
McDonagh
Ryan O'Reilly
These all in the past several years. Go back further and you'll see every year or two, elite or near elite players become available.
The Rangers have a lot of assets already. They will have more after this draft. They will have more next year. Some players will grow more valuable, some less. They cannot keep all these assets. They will be able to enter the market for any player that becomes available. When they were competing in this last window they purchased Nash, St. Louis, Yandle. All considered elite or near elite players. They will be able to do the same again. They can buy players who fit a need.
Panarin doesn't necessarily fit a need. He won't necessarily hold up. It makes much more sense to wait and see how things pan out. What positions will we need to add to? We could be heavy on the wing. Why sign a guy who will soak up cap space for 7 years there? Makes no sense.
To me, it seems we could be much more in need of a center or d-man. Waiting makes sense. Don't jump the gun.
In the msg interview Gorton pretty open about trying to trade players . I know it’s a big part of his job but no sugar coating it they are going to try and be active
Come on now the guy still put up nice stars he’s a weapon and a big reason where they are
I’m actuallt fine w Staal being around 2 more years they just need to move him to 3rd pair if Hajek or Lindgren make a jump in development this year
Lone Ranger
Registered User
If our top 7 defenders are comprised of Staal, Shatty, TDA, Pionk, Skjel, Fox, and Hajek, how does that stack up to an average NHL unit? I by no means think it's very good, but if Skjel bounces back, and TDA, Fox and Hajek show reasonable growth, it could be better than expected.
Beacon
Embrace the tank
- May 28, 2007
- 13,676
- 1,454
Even assuming that all 3 of Kakko, Chytil and Kravtsov become good enough to play in the top-6 of a Cup contender (and there's a chance at least 1 may not) and neither Zibanejad nor Butcher regresses or gets injured, the Rangers still need 1 more forward. On defense, there's hope for ADA, Fox and K'Andre to become Cup contender quality first pair defensemen, but the odds are against 2 of 3 getting there.
Gorton knows it and that's why he's trying to get more lottery tickets to hopefully score another Chytil and K'Andre or even better, another Kakko and top D draftee.
A key topic is to sort out how the team will look and what we have and what we don't have.
A lot has changed post-lottery.
One major topic is: Who should center Kaapo Kakko?
I do not think that Zibanejad and Kakko are immediate optimal fits. Why? A key component of Ziba’s game is playing a very fast N-S hockey in many areas. His line has played their best hockey when they have been able to exit the zone fast, often with a cross ice pass, drive fast up ice, and then often make that second cross ice pass towards the far post. Think of the situations when Ziba have found a Kreider streaking to the net from the left side just by the far post. That have created a lot of offense, but also havoc defensively. After executing those plays, they have been fairly good at getting to the lose pucks and create offense from the second wave so to speak.
So why wouldn’t Kakko do great in that environment? It is just that when he crosses the blueline with the puck, he is tremendously good at making more complex plays with it there.
OTOH, you can ask yourself if Kakko and Ziba couldn’t form a formidable duo down low and along the boards? Stay in the attacking zone most of the time? Maybe. But NHL teams are good at checking top lines and getting the puck up ice.
In the end, I just think Kravy is a more optimal fit with Ziba, and it would be a much easier transition for him to be able to slide into Kreider’s role on the top line. Kravy and Ziba are really a perfect fit. Couldn’t Kakko play opposite them? Sure, I wouldn’t rule that out. And long-term its certainly possible. But that line plays long minutes and has a heavy duty, not sure if its optimal to have 2 rookies on it, young ones at that.
Chytil is playing center for the Czech’s and doing it well, and he did well at center late in the season in the NHL. I think plan A is to use him at center. Is Chytil a great fit for Kakko? I don’t think so either. Chytil might grow playing with someone like Kakko. But I will get back to that.
Chytil to a large extent thrives when he can drive hard to the net, create some havoc, and stay close to the paint and poke in some rebounds. He is a bit one-dimensional with the puck and in his offensive game still, I think there is a good reason to hope for more to come, but at this point his puck distribution, finding or being a shooting option from some distance, even getting on lose pucks and so forth can be a bit simplistic.
In the sense that Kakko also thrives at driving the puck to the net and staying close to the paint, I think he and Chytil are a bit too like each other to be great fits. Both thrives form playing with a bit smarter enablers so to speak. Guys that thrives at creating open ice for them and finding them in that open ice.
While both Chytil and Kakko can play great defensively, especially the later, they are however not the type who always have a thought on playing defense when they have the puck and are driving to the net.
If however especially Chytil can feed of Kakko and expand his register – this could change.
Howden is however a kid that I think is the best fit at center – right now – that we have for Kakko. He moves the puck much faster and moves smarter without it than Chytil. Howden is also really good at winning back pucks if he loses it, and can also get back really fast and cover for his line-mates defensively.
Wouldn’t playing Kakko with Howden, i.e. in essence on a 3rd line, give him a role that is too small? I don’t think so. It’s a line that you can play more when it works, and a little less when it doesn’t. And the big difference in ice-time has little to do with being on a 1st or 3rd line 5 on 5, it’s the special teams and Kakko should of course get a lot of ice time there.
I think its just beneficial to get him on the ice where the other team would forget about him more. Not top minutes in quantity, but he would hit the ice well rested and against weaker Ds, and with a player in Howden that will defer the puck to him a lot.
I think Lias improved a lot during last season. In many areas Lias and Kakko would be a great fit together. Both are tremendously competitive, and have – at least outside the NHL – shown an ability to be really strong on the puck. Lias sees the ice really well and can shoot the puck from distance too, and so can Kakko. But what both especially do really well is just that ability to ‘make the right play’.
Lias has potential to contribute with much of what Howden can for Kakko, and a lot more in other areas. His hockey sense but also natural skill level is just on another level. But I think that Lias is the right man for the job if he can push his skating up another notch this summer, and be much revitalized when it comes to driving the puck up ice at the NHL level.
I personally wouldn’t mind Lias at LW with Howden and Kakko. But I also think that Lemieux might be a fit there. If Lias isn’t ready to play at center out of camp, I wonder if it wouldn’t be best for him to start the season in the AHL. Its not rare that you end up in situations like that with kids that played pro hockey at young age. The kids rounds out their game fast and well, but to get by they ‘cheat’ some basic areas like carrying the puck and so forth, and if they can’t figure it out without practicing much in game situations, you have to take a step back with them and let them make up for it at later stages.
Another option – that probably isn’t that unlikely – is Ryan Strome. But its not one that I like a ton. Strome is steady and ok 5 on 5, but his production comes from just getting into that sweat-spot as a RHS going to the far left post after pucks are put on the net. When they bounce out he gets a slam dunk. Don’t think he really lifts the players around him. I wouldn’t mind if Strome was traded before the season, think he has little upside for us in the grand scheme of things.
I am more or less assuming that Kreider is moved, or at least that Gorton’s decision more or less already was made to try to move him earlier. Things can of course change. But the comments that like Lemieux certainly will get a chance at playing higher up the line-up etc don’t make much sense to me if we keep Kreider around.
For me that basically gives us:
Kravy-Ziba-Buch
Lemieux/Lias-Chytil-Names/Vesey
Lemieux/Lias-Howden-Kakko
Boo-Strome (?)-Fast-Names/Vesey or someone else.
A lot has changed post-lottery.
One major topic is: Who should center Kaapo Kakko?
I do not think that Zibanejad and Kakko are immediate optimal fits. Why? A key component of Ziba’s game is playing a very fast N-S hockey in many areas. His line has played their best hockey when they have been able to exit the zone fast, often with a cross ice pass, drive fast up ice, and then often make that second cross ice pass towards the far post. Think of the situations when Ziba have found a Kreider streaking to the net from the left side just by the far post. That have created a lot of offense, but also havoc defensively. After executing those plays, they have been fairly good at getting to the lose pucks and create offense from the second wave so to speak.
So why wouldn’t Kakko do great in that environment? It is just that when he crosses the blueline with the puck, he is tremendously good at making more complex plays with it there.
OTOH, you can ask yourself if Kakko and Ziba couldn’t form a formidable duo down low and along the boards? Stay in the attacking zone most of the time? Maybe. But NHL teams are good at checking top lines and getting the puck up ice.
In the end, I just think Kravy is a more optimal fit with Ziba, and it would be a much easier transition for him to be able to slide into Kreider’s role on the top line. Kravy and Ziba are really a perfect fit. Couldn’t Kakko play opposite them? Sure, I wouldn’t rule that out. And long-term its certainly possible. But that line plays long minutes and has a heavy duty, not sure if its optimal to have 2 rookies on it, young ones at that.
Chytil is playing center for the Czech’s and doing it well, and he did well at center late in the season in the NHL. I think plan A is to use him at center. Is Chytil a great fit for Kakko? I don’t think so either. Chytil might grow playing with someone like Kakko. But I will get back to that.
Chytil to a large extent thrives when he can drive hard to the net, create some havoc, and stay close to the paint and poke in some rebounds. He is a bit one-dimensional with the puck and in his offensive game still, I think there is a good reason to hope for more to come, but at this point his puck distribution, finding or being a shooting option from some distance, even getting on lose pucks and so forth can be a bit simplistic.
In the sense that Kakko also thrives at driving the puck to the net and staying close to the paint, I think he and Chytil are a bit too like each other to be great fits. Both thrives form playing with a bit smarter enablers so to speak. Guys that thrives at creating open ice for them and finding them in that open ice.
While both Chytil and Kakko can play great defensively, especially the later, they are however not the type who always have a thought on playing defense when they have the puck and are driving to the net.
If however especially Chytil can feed of Kakko and expand his register – this could change.
Howden is however a kid that I think is the best fit at center – right now – that we have for Kakko. He moves the puck much faster and moves smarter without it than Chytil. Howden is also really good at winning back pucks if he loses it, and can also get back really fast and cover for his line-mates defensively.
Wouldn’t playing Kakko with Howden, i.e. in essence on a 3rd line, give him a role that is too small? I don’t think so. It’s a line that you can play more when it works, and a little less when it doesn’t. And the big difference in ice-time has little to do with being on a 1st or 3rd line 5 on 5, it’s the special teams and Kakko should of course get a lot of ice time there.
I think its just beneficial to get him on the ice where the other team would forget about him more. Not top minutes in quantity, but he would hit the ice well rested and against weaker Ds, and with a player in Howden that will defer the puck to him a lot.
I think Lias improved a lot during last season. In many areas Lias and Kakko would be a great fit together. Both are tremendously competitive, and have – at least outside the NHL – shown an ability to be really strong on the puck. Lias sees the ice really well and can shoot the puck from distance too, and so can Kakko. But what both especially do really well is just that ability to ‘make the right play’.
Lias has potential to contribute with much of what Howden can for Kakko, and a lot more in other areas. His hockey sense but also natural skill level is just on another level. But I think that Lias is the right man for the job if he can push his skating up another notch this summer, and be much revitalized when it comes to driving the puck up ice at the NHL level.
I personally wouldn’t mind Lias at LW with Howden and Kakko. But I also think that Lemieux might be a fit there. If Lias isn’t ready to play at center out of camp, I wonder if it wouldn’t be best for him to start the season in the AHL. Its not rare that you end up in situations like that with kids that played pro hockey at young age. The kids rounds out their game fast and well, but to get by they ‘cheat’ some basic areas like carrying the puck and so forth, and if they can’t figure it out without practicing much in game situations, you have to take a step back with them and let them make up for it at later stages.
Another option – that probably isn’t that unlikely – is Ryan Strome. But its not one that I like a ton. Strome is steady and ok 5 on 5, but his production comes from just getting into that sweat-spot as a RHS going to the far left post after pucks are put on the net. When they bounce out he gets a slam dunk. Don’t think he really lifts the players around him. I wouldn’t mind if Strome was traded before the season, think he has little upside for us in the grand scheme of things.
I am more or less assuming that Kreider is moved, or at least that Gorton’s decision more or less already was made to try to move him earlier. Things can of course change. But the comments that like Lemieux certainly will get a chance at playing higher up the line-up etc don’t make much sense to me if we keep Kreider around.
For me that basically gives us:
Kravy-Ziba-Buch
Lemieux/Lias-Chytil-Names/Vesey
Lemieux/Lias-Howden-Kakko
Boo-Strome (?)-Fast-Names/Vesey or someone else.
Guess I should embrace the tank this year again that is just a lot of kids to play if Kreider goes for another 1st........I understand it and am fine with it but kids kinda thrown out there with not much very support if Kreider , Names, Vesey all get shipped out soon.
I know Lias is going to be the next Bergeron but I can't help but insert Elias Petterson into this lineup. I think he would have a grand ol time centering Mr Kakko.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Something to keep in mind is that right-handed centers with left-handed right wings can be a little tricky.
Jagr talked about this back in the day when discussing playing with someone like Drury, and why he didn't play with Mario more than he did.
We'll see if that's an issue with centering Kakko or not. But based on his style, it's at least something to keep an eye on.
SA16
Sixstring
They tried to move Gaborik to LW one year to make it easier for Stepan to center him and it was a total disaster.
Mac n Gs
Drury plz
- Jan 17, 2014
- 22,835
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The simple solution is to just find a way to draft Zegras or Newhook so they can center him in a couple of years 
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
The simple solution is to just find a way to draft Zegras or Newhook so they can center him in a couple of years
While I freely admit that would make me elated, I very much suspect the Rangers have given some thought to at least one of those names.
Yeah, and I agree for sure. Last season it was easier for Ziba to find Kreider at LW than Buch at RW when heading up ice. Hence why I would like Kravy -- on LW -- to play with Ziba. But Kakko could of course also play there.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I think what I am intrigued by is how much versatility we have or don't have.
Kakko and Kravtsov have both played LW with great results. I'm not totally sold on Andersson or Chytil being centers at this point, so they could see some time on the wings.
If by some amazing fortune the Rangers are able to come away from this draft with one of the centers they liked, almost all of those guys have also seen a decent amount of time on the wings as well.
- Sep 20, 2007
- 8,421
- 13,482
Lets say for a minute that Kakko is the guy we get at #2(which is a relatively safe assumption). Would it make sense to give the minnesota wild a call about Mikko Koivu? Get a true 1st class finnish vet to guide Kappo for a couple years? Could play a 3rd line C role for us in the mean time.
Mac n Gs
Drury plz
- Jan 17, 2014
- 22,835
- 13,558
I’d sure as heck hope so considering Quinn recruited Zegras to BU and Greg Brown most likely helped recruit Newhook to BC. Factor in the Rangers probably watching the BCHL more than most teams with the Kevin Maxwell connections, and it adds up that we’ve more likely than not been watching these kids for multiple years now.
All Gorton needs to do is find a way to seal the deal. It’s easier said than done.
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