Regarding Marino/Fox:
Marino had a very nice rookie year on a pretty decent team with zero expectations on him. For the most part, that team had their overall structure intact from years prior. He slotted in nicely and put up a very solid rookie sampling in 56 games. I’m not saying he won’t be a legit defender, anywhere from maybe a #2 to more likely a 3/4, or maybe just a 5, but we’ve seen plenty of guys look great in 60 games when there’s no expectation on them only to see expectations be placed on them after the fact, for them to continue improving, take on tougher matchups and more responsibility, etc. and ultimately realize that what we already saw was what we’ll get. Again, not saying that is or isn’t the case with Marino, and logically, why wouldn’t a 22 year old continue improving, right? I’m just saying even as he polishes his NHL game and improved in some areas, it may turn out that asking him to fill a bigger role, placing expectations on him to be an anchor for your D core, etc. doesn’t go as planned. It happens all the time. Whether that’s the case or not, I’m not attempting to predict.
The reason I mention all that, however, is that Fox (who is 9 months younger) was his teammate just last year at Harvard. They both played 33 games. Marino had 11 points (I believe, I’d have to double check). Fox had 48. Fox had all the hype, and expectations imaginable for an NCAA dman. He was part of a high profile trade. Won some hardware. Was highly talked about for his offensive numbers. And then he joined his hometown team, which magnified the spotlight even a bit more. Rather than stepping onto a contender level Penguins team that had their core and structure largely intact already where he could fly under the radar without expectations, he stepped onto a Rangers team that had... Kakko, Panarin, Trouba, Hajek, Lindgren, Howden, Strome, Lemieux, Georgiev, Fox himself and then later Shesterkin, Chytil, Gauthier all in states of flux with figuring out where they fit on this roster and how to play alongside the few guys who were already here for more than the blink of an eye so far. I mean really, beyond Mika, Kreids, Fast, Staal and Buch who had been here more than one season?
We all saw how Fox handled it, so I won’t even bother commenting on his play or his evolution from sheltered to relied upon, but he stepped into a much tougher situation with a lot more attention being placed on him from day one.
There’s a reason Marino was a 156th overall pick who no one had ever heard of and Fox was hyped long before he ever stepped into the NHL. There’s a reason Fox absolutely demolished Marino’s numbers in college. Look, if Marino is a late bloomer or just found the right situation and he blossoms into a legitimate top pairing defender, that’s awesome. Much as I dislike the Pens, I’m a hockey fan and I love the unheralded guy rising against expectations. If he’s a hidden gem who turns into something truly special that’s amazing for him and I’ll be happy to watch it happen (except when we play Pittsburgh).
But with Fox we pretty much KNOW this was just the tip of the iceberg for him. We KNOW this kid is the real deal. Marino is an unknown, he could progress, stagnate or regress and none of those things would surprise me. Obviously anything is “possible” but I’d be shocked if Fox stagnated (permanently) or regressed from this season. The biggest challenge for Fox this year was living up to the hype and, honestly, if he’d been half as good as he was as a rookie we’d all be pretty satisfied and thinking that he’s got a very bright future. He did much more than that. He justified the hype and then some. Fox is much more projectable as a “sure bet” to be a top pair or #3 dman going forward.
Regarding Trouba/Lindgren:
Trouba is already the new whipping boy. He got a big contract and we overpaid him. He’s not a legit, legit top pairing guy. He got paid like one. Oh well. That said, you simply can’t compare Trouba’s season to Lindgren’s. Everything from minutes and usage, zone starts, expectations to carry a pairing (really the whole young defense). It’s just not a fair fight. Lindgren had a very promising rookie season and looks like he could be a Trouba-lite. Similar players, honestly. You can argue Lindgren’s defensive game will ultimately be better (many will argue it is), but again without comparable usage, zone starts and expectations it’s a pointless argument. Trouba obviously has the potential and has proven capable of providing far more offense than Lindy will and in a reduced role with a good partner, he’s probably a very decent compliment on the top pair or an ideal #3. I’m nowhere near comfortable saying that Lindgren would do as well in Trouba’s role yet, or that he’ll ever be an ideal #3 on his own merit. Trouba’s contract will mean he never gets embraced by this community, really. He’d have to have Norris votes in a couple of seasons for people not to hold his cap number against his actual performance. We paid him what we paid him. The fact that he makes $8M doesn’t make his play worse, it just means he makes more than he should.
Marino had a very nice rookie year on a pretty decent team with zero expectations on him. For the most part, that team had their overall structure intact from years prior. He slotted in nicely and put up a very solid rookie sampling in 56 games. I’m not saying he won’t be a legit defender, anywhere from maybe a #2 to more likely a 3/4, or maybe just a 5, but we’ve seen plenty of guys look great in 60 games when there’s no expectation on them only to see expectations be placed on them after the fact, for them to continue improving, take on tougher matchups and more responsibility, etc. and ultimately realize that what we already saw was what we’ll get. Again, not saying that is or isn’t the case with Marino, and logically, why wouldn’t a 22 year old continue improving, right? I’m just saying even as he polishes his NHL game and improved in some areas, it may turn out that asking him to fill a bigger role, placing expectations on him to be an anchor for your D core, etc. doesn’t go as planned. It happens all the time. Whether that’s the case or not, I’m not attempting to predict.
The reason I mention all that, however, is that Fox (who is 9 months younger) was his teammate just last year at Harvard. They both played 33 games. Marino had 11 points (I believe, I’d have to double check). Fox had 48. Fox had all the hype, and expectations imaginable for an NCAA dman. He was part of a high profile trade. Won some hardware. Was highly talked about for his offensive numbers. And then he joined his hometown team, which magnified the spotlight even a bit more. Rather than stepping onto a contender level Penguins team that had their core and structure largely intact already where he could fly under the radar without expectations, he stepped onto a Rangers team that had... Kakko, Panarin, Trouba, Hajek, Lindgren, Howden, Strome, Lemieux, Georgiev, Fox himself and then later Shesterkin, Chytil, Gauthier all in states of flux with figuring out where they fit on this roster and how to play alongside the few guys who were already here for more than the blink of an eye so far. I mean really, beyond Mika, Kreids, Fast, Staal and Buch who had been here more than one season?
We all saw how Fox handled it, so I won’t even bother commenting on his play or his evolution from sheltered to relied upon, but he stepped into a much tougher situation with a lot more attention being placed on him from day one.
There’s a reason Marino was a 156th overall pick who no one had ever heard of and Fox was hyped long before he ever stepped into the NHL. There’s a reason Fox absolutely demolished Marino’s numbers in college. Look, if Marino is a late bloomer or just found the right situation and he blossoms into a legitimate top pairing defender, that’s awesome. Much as I dislike the Pens, I’m a hockey fan and I love the unheralded guy rising against expectations. If he’s a hidden gem who turns into something truly special that’s amazing for him and I’ll be happy to watch it happen (except when we play Pittsburgh).
But with Fox we pretty much KNOW this was just the tip of the iceberg for him. We KNOW this kid is the real deal. Marino is an unknown, he could progress, stagnate or regress and none of those things would surprise me. Obviously anything is “possible” but I’d be shocked if Fox stagnated (permanently) or regressed from this season. The biggest challenge for Fox this year was living up to the hype and, honestly, if he’d been half as good as he was as a rookie we’d all be pretty satisfied and thinking that he’s got a very bright future. He did much more than that. He justified the hype and then some. Fox is much more projectable as a “sure bet” to be a top pair or #3 dman going forward.
Regarding Trouba/Lindgren:
Trouba is already the new whipping boy. He got a big contract and we overpaid him. He’s not a legit, legit top pairing guy. He got paid like one. Oh well. That said, you simply can’t compare Trouba’s season to Lindgren’s. Everything from minutes and usage, zone starts, expectations to carry a pairing (really the whole young defense). It’s just not a fair fight. Lindgren had a very promising rookie season and looks like he could be a Trouba-lite. Similar players, honestly. You can argue Lindgren’s defensive game will ultimately be better (many will argue it is), but again without comparable usage, zone starts and expectations it’s a pointless argument. Trouba obviously has the potential and has proven capable of providing far more offense than Lindy will and in a reduced role with a good partner, he’s probably a very decent compliment on the top pair or an ideal #3. I’m nowhere near comfortable saying that Lindgren would do as well in Trouba’s role yet, or that he’ll ever be an ideal #3 on his own merit. Trouba’s contract will mean he never gets embraced by this community, really. He’d have to have Norris votes in a couple of seasons for people not to hold his cap number against his actual performance. We paid him what we paid him. The fact that he makes $8M doesn’t make his play worse, it just means he makes more than he should.
