Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XL

[Ghost of jas]

Again, it’s clear to me that the Rangers valued Fox higher than anyone they believed would be available at 37. If you add in the value of the potential additional 2nd, that equals approximately a jump of 5 spots. So, they’re essentially saying Fox is a better option than the first pick of the second round. I’m inclined to agree with them.

 

[RangerBoy]

I screwed up my post. I went to edit it and left stuff out.

The Rangers Winnipeg pick moved up with the Stars-Blues in the 2nd round. #21. Carolina. Columbus. Colorado. The Winnipeg pick moves up with one of those teams reaching the CF. All if the teams with the letter C.

Dallas winning the Blues series gets the Rangers another late 1st rounder. Zuccarello is a perfect fit in Dallas. There are not many perfect fits for him. They should re-sign him. He should stay there. They could go into the free agent market to replace him. The player they get won’t be cheaper and they have no idea how that player will play for them. Dallas already knows Zuccarello.

The Adam Fox trade silences those crazy Erik Karlsson rumors. The Rangers don’t need two smallish RD. It also takes them out of any offer sheet requiring 2nd rounders. Two positive things. Those offer sheets are trouble in the NHL.

 

[Edge]

The completion of this trade tells me that the Rangers don’t agree with your premise.

At the end of the day, I get the sense from conversations over the last 6 -8 months that the Rangers want to come away with the guys they like and are willing to be aggressive in coming away with them.

I suspect they don't want to be in a position like 2017 where the guy at the top of their list was just out of reach. I think they want to go in, get their guys, and go home.

So in the Fox case, I think the Rangers probably could've haggled over which second rounder, or rolled the dice on waiting a year, but the fact was that they wanted Fox. As a result, they went out and got him. No speculating, no maybes, no waiting, no last minute derailments, etc.

Based on those same conversations, I get the sense the Rangers would like to take a similar approach in this draft. Let's put the Kreider speculation aside for a moment. Let's say for example that Zegras or Newhook is on the board at 14, and the Rangers have both guys ranked high. I can see the Rangers being willing to part with the Jets pick, the Dallas pick and the Tampa pick to get "their guy" and know he's in the fold.

I say that because I think there's a decent probability that if people weren't crazy about the Fox price, they're going to be surprised at how aggressive the Rangers might look to be elsewhere.

 

[Ghost of jas]

At the end of the day, I get the sense from conversations over the last 6 -8 months that the Rangers want to come away with the guys they like and are willing to be aggressive in coming away with them.

I suspect they don't want to be in a position like 2017 where the guy at the top of their list was just out of reach. I think they want to go in, get their guys, and go home.

So in the Fox case, I think the Rangers probably could've haggled over which second rounder, or rolled the dice on waiting a year, but the fact was that they wanted Fox. As a result, they went out and got him. No speculating, no maybes, no waiting, no last minute derailments, etc.

Based on those same conversations, I get the sense the Rangers would like to take a similar approach in this draft. Let's put the Kreider speculation aside for a moment. Let's say for example that Zegras or Newhook is on the board at 14, and the Rangers have both guys ranked high. I can see the Rangers being willing to part with the Jets pick, the Dallas pick and the Tampa pick to get "their guy" and know he's in the fold.

I say that because I think there's a decent probability that if people weren't crazy about the Fox price, they're going to be surprised at how aggressive the Rangers might look to be elsewhere.

This goes hand-in- hand with the approach Gorton has taken in his trades. Gorton has already built up the overall depth of the organization. To me, it was evident he would use the draft for the high end talent. I agree that Gorton is willing to pay a premium to get the high end talent he’s targeting.

 

[Savant]

The Adam Fox trade silences those crazy Erik Karlsson rumors. The Rangers don’t need two smallish RD. It also takes them out of any offer sheet requiring 2nd rounders. Two positive things. Those offer sheets are trouble in the NHL.

Adam Fox has nothing at all to do with a possible Karlsson addition. If Karlsson want to come the Rangers will make room. It is ridiculous to think Fox would prohibit at Karlsson move.

 

[Tawnos]

At the end of the day, I get the sense from conversations over the last 6 -8 months that the Rangers want to come away with the guys they like and are willing to be aggressive in coming away with them.

I suspect they don't want to be in a position like 2017 where the guy at the top of their list was just out of reach. I think they want to go in, get their guys, and go home.

So in the Fox case, I think the Rangers probably could've haggled over which second rounder, or rolled the dice on waiting a year, but the fact was that they wanted Fox. As a result, they went out and got him. No speculating, no maybes, no waiting, no last minute derailments, etc.

Based on those same conversations, I get the sense the Rangers would like to take a similar approach in this draft. Let's put the Kreider speculation aside for a moment. Let's say for example that Zegras or Newhook is on the board at 14, and the Rangers have both guys ranked high. I can see the Rangers being willing to part with the Jets pick, the Dallas pick and the Tampa pick to get "their guy" and know he's in the fold.

I say that because I think there's a decent probability that if people weren't crazy about the Fox price, they're going to be surprised at how aggressive the Rangers might look to be elsewhere.

I really enjoy this “skip to the end of the conversation” kind of thinking. It’s what I tend to do at my job too.

It’s also the reason I wouldn’t be surprised to see a buy out in June. Maybe 2. If the player isn’t part of the long-term solution and you don’t need him to fill out your roster, why is he here? No machinations. Just do it.

Some people look at this kind of stuff as “consequences be damned” and that’s understandable. But even “skip to the end of the conversation” people only act on it when they know the consequences can be managed.

 

[Mikos87]

Might be wiser to just keep Shattenkirk and Pionk around and keep Fox in the AHL for the first half. Hopefully he bangs down the door and they have no choice but to move someone to make room.
Sometimes it takes that kind of situation to force a resolution rather than doing something proactively. I know it's a little counter-intuitive.

It's a valid point but I'm very confident that Foxy's going to push Pionk and Shatts down the depth chart.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Would you...

Trade Lias Anderson for Jacob Trouba straight up if you knew Trouba would sign a long term extension?

Yes. Where do I sign?

 

[Tawnos]

By the way, the Rangers 2016 draft is now:

#27 Brett Howden
#37 Libor Hajek
#49 Ryan Lindgren
#66 Adam Fox
#81 Sean Day
#98 Tarmo Reunanen
#133 Yegor Rykov
#141 Tim Gettinger
#171 Gabriel Fontaine
#174 Tyler Wall
#201 Ty Ronning

The active rebuilding stage of drafting our own picks and using vets to add picks and prospects might have only started last year, but in terms of development arcs, the rebuild clearly starts with that draft. Goes to my way of looking at it, which is that the rebuild is 3 years in and is about to conduct its 4th draft.

 

[Mikos87]

I'd just bring back McQuaid. Two year deal. Though a LD version might be a smarter move.

I don't think McQuaid is a full time NHLer. But I get your point.

The Rangers need safety valves for their defense.

Every hockey guy I know says that about Skjei. ADA needs one as well.

If you look at the teams in the playoffs, they've got guys that can actually defend. Zadorov, Savard, Slavin, Pesce.

Nothing sexy about those players, but they get the job done.

 

[Mikos87]

By the way, the Rangers 2016 draft is now:

#27 Brett Howden
#37 Libor Hajek
#49 Ryan Lindgren
#66 Adam Fox
#81 Sean Day
#98 Tarmo Reunanen
#133 Yegor Rykov
#141 Tim Gettinger
#171 Gabriel Fontaine
#174 Tyler Wall
#201 Ty Ronning

The active rebuilding stage of drafting our own picks and using vets to add picks and prospects might have only started last year, but in terms of development arcs, the rebuild clearly starts with that draft. Goes to my way of looking at it, which is that the rebuild is 3 years in and is about to conduct its 4th draft.

Minnesota did this with the 2010 class back in the day. Fenton is trying to cycle out again.

Nashville built their team that way. Albeit the age is spread out a bit.

 

[Mikos87]

The next deals should be moving out

Kreider
Fast
Names
Vesey

 

[Beer League Sniper]

By the way, the Rangers 2016 draft is now:

#27 Brett Howden
#37 Libor Hajek
#49 Ryan Lindgren
#66 Adam Fox
#81 Sean Day
#98 Tarmo Reunanen
#133 Yegor Rykov
#141 Tim Gettinger
#171 Gabriel Fontaine
#174 Tyler Wall
#201 Ty Ronning

The active rebuilding stage of drafting our own picks and using vets to add picks and prospects might have only started last year, but in terms of development arcs, the rebuild clearly starts with that draft. Goes to my way of looking at it, which is that the rebuild is 3 years in and is about to conduct its 4th draft.

Great point. Also, Gorton has said previously that players in different age ranges are needed during a rebuild. That way, you're not getting slammed with all your players coming off their ELCs the same year and screwing up the cap.

The Fox move fits into that pretty perfectly. He's an older prospect, but much further on his development path than some of the D we've drafted recently (Miller, Lundkvist, et al). I thought the return was a little hefty, given that Fox apparently only wanted the Rangers, but it was fair value for one of the Top D prospects outside the NHL. If you know a high-end player wants to play for your organization, sometimes it's just easier to fork over the assets than give them another 15 months to change their mind.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I love that they are willing to be aggressive and I am hoping and praying that includes trying to get back into the top 10 of this draft and get one of the centers.

 

[Edge]

By the way, the Rangers 2016 draft is now:

#27 Brett Howden
#37 Libor Hajek
#49 Ryan Lindgren
#66 Adam Fox
#81 Sean Day
#98 Tarmo Reunanen
#133 Yegor Rykov
#141 Tim Gettinger
#171 Gabriel Fontaine
#174 Tyler Wall
#201 Ty Ronning

The active rebuilding stage of drafting our own picks and using vets to add picks and prospects might have only started last year, but in terms of development arcs, the rebuild clearly starts with that draft. Goes to my way of looking at it, which is that the rebuild is 3 years in and is about to conduct its 4th draft.

It’s funny, this is something I’ve thought about and commented on quite a bit.

We tend to focus on the 2017 and 2018 drafts, and understandably so, but they’ve done an amazing job of reconstructing the 2016 draft. In the grand scheme of things, the 2016 draft might be ranked right up there with 2018 and 2019 as a key draft that supports a generation of Rangers’ teams.

 

[Avery16]

Again, it’s clear to me that the Rangers valued Fox higher than anyone they believed would be available at 37. If you add in the value of the potential additional 2nd, that equals approximately a jump of 5 spots. So, they’re essentially saying Fox is a better option than the first pick of the second round. I’m inclined to agree with them.

The flip side of this is that we have a lot of picks in a draft that apparently isn’t very deep.

 

[Ghost of jas]

It’s funny, this is something I’ve thought about and commented on quite a bit.

We tend to focus on the 2017 and 2018 drafts, and understandably so, but they’ve done an amazing job of reconstructing the 2016 draft. In the grand scheme of things, the 2016 draft might be ranked right up there with 2018 and 2019 as a key draft that supports a generation of Rangers’ teams.

Now they just need to trade for Keller.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

It’s funny, this is something I’ve thought about and commented on quite a bit.

We tend to focus on the 2017 and 2018 drafts, and understandably so, but they’ve done an amazing job of reconstructing the 2016 draft. In the grand scheme of things, the 2016 draft might be ranked right up there with 2018 and 2019 as a key draft that supports a generation of Rangers’ teams.

That draft may not have any elite names, but it has the potential to provide a bunch of quality Bottom-4 and Bottom-6 players that could be the team's foundation for the next decade.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I screwed up my post. I went to edit it and left stuff out.

The Rangers Winnipeg pick moved up with the Stars-Blues in the 2nd round. #21. Carolina. Columbus. Colorado. The Winnipeg pick moves up with one of those teams reaching the CF. All if the teams with the letter C.

Dallas winning the Blues series gets the Rangers another late 1st rounder. Zuccarello is a perfect fit in Dallas. There are not many perfect fits for him. They should re-sign him. He should stay there. They could go into the free agent market to replace him. The player they get won’t be cheaper and they have no idea how that player will play for them. Dallas already knows Zuccarello.

The Adam Fox trade silences those crazy Erik Karlsson rumors. The Rangers don’t need two smallish RD. It also takes them out of any offer sheet requiring 2nd rounders. Two positive things. Those offer sheets are trouble in the NHL.

You write posts like how i’d imagine white house staff writes briefings for the president, that’s not a knock at all i just find it entertaining.
Anywho i would like to point iut that Shatty is barely 6 feet himself so our entire right side is 5”11 basically. If we do trade Shatty i would like to sign Tyler Myers.

 

[Off Sides]

At the end of the day, I get the sense from conversations over the last 6 -8 months that the Rangers want to come away with the guys they like and are willing to be aggressive in coming away with them.

I suspect they don't want to be in a position like 2017 where the guy at the top of their list was just out of reach. I think they want to go in, get their guys, and go home.

So in the Fox case, I think the Rangers probably could've haggled over which second rounder, or rolled the dice on waiting a year, but the fact was that they wanted Fox. As a result, they went out and got him. No speculating, no maybes, no waiting, no last minute derailments, etc.

Based on those same conversations, I get the sense the Rangers would like to take a similar approach in this draft. Let's put the Kreider speculation aside for a moment. Let's say for example that Zegras or Newhook is on the board at 14, and the Rangers have both guys ranked high. I can see the Rangers being willing to part with the Jets pick, the Dallas pick and the Tampa pick to get "their guy" and know he's in the fold.

I say that because I think there's a decent probability that if people weren't crazy about the Fox price, they're going to be surprised at how aggressive the Rangers might look to be elsewhere.

I believe that to also be the general idea.

If Carolina found a conditional deal for Fox's rights from another team, like say a 3rd that turned to a 2nd if he signed there, and the Rangers offered less or nothing, and that did happen they lose out on Fox. It's possible Fox was turning pro and he had more than just the Rangers on his list of teams he would sign with or would have expanded his list once his rights were not traded to the Rangers and were traded somewhere else.

This draft I do hope the opportunity to pay up for what they want comes about and if so, yes I expect it to cost more than what the general ideas seem to be. I also expect if Kreider is moved he returns less value than the general ideas seem to be.

I think the value increase on the Rangers side if they do so is two fold. One they get what they want. Two what they get will line up very well with the #2 pick and what they've drafted and traded out of the 2016, 17, 18 drafts. That is value that goes beyond if they overpaid a little here and there or sold for 90 cents on the dollar here or there to have that all fit together within the rebuild timeline.

That would be all consistent with an acceleration of a rebuild. They are not waiting around for the next 5 drafts to hopefully provide what they want, they are compressing that into the 2016 through the 2019 drafts.

The 2020 draft we'll see, I am hoping they let the chips fall where they may without trying to add too much, they still have a ton of question marks, yet if next year's team is naturally better than most believe it should be, that is a favorable outcome too, it means the young and younger took giant steps at the NHL level without needing to be augmented all that much. If not and they end up in the lottery that too is a favorable outcome as they get a better pick.

I just hope they remember that all this stockpiling is going to increase in cap hits as it progresses and it's not like that progression is all that far off. Sure would be a shame should they do better than they even expected out of all this stockpiling only to have to pick and choose which of the best parts to keep because they did not reserve enough cap space.

 

[iamitter]

Speaking of aggressive, I wonder if the opportunity to pick up Keller came along and the Rangers would be willing to part with Kreider, the Winnipeg pick and the Dallas pick for him.

 

[Leetch3]

That’s not the question...

its an absolute no brainer for us...i haven't given up on lias yet, but we say yes to that without any hestitation.

 

[HonestGabe]

Speaking of aggressive, I wonder if the opportunity to pick up Keller came along and the Rangers would be willing to part with Kreider, the Winnipeg pick and the Dallas pick for him.

I sure as shit would hope they would be. I don’t think that opportunity will come along. I don’t see the Coyotes parting with Keller anytime soon.

 

[Tawnos]

It’s funny, this is something I’ve thought about and commented on quite a bit.

We tend to focus on the 2017 and 2018 drafts, and understandably so, but they’ve done an amazing job of reconstructing the 2016 draft. In the grand scheme of things, the 2016 draft might be ranked right up there with 2018 and 2019 as a key draft that supports a generation of Rangers’ teams.

Exactly. I mean, Hajek-Fox might be a long-term pairing (foxgrove) just on its own and may be a 1st pairing if they continue progressing.

 

[Ola]

I love this tibit from Friedman:

“27. Great line from one executive on Pat Maroon: “He’s a dinosaur, but there’s no one left who knows how to play against a dinosaur.” Anyone could have had him in both free agency and when the Blues made him available. No one bit, and now he’s unstoppable down low.“

I believe in strategical thinking as much as anyone, but it’s important to remember that hockey isn’t black and white. I want my forwards to be as fast as possible — but there is still room for a smart bigger PF or even two in a lineup, especially if you have much skill. But you can never lose that balance, because then they are only going to weigh you down.