Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XL

[Irishguy42]

Heard back from CapFriendly. The Rangers would NOT be able to do the offer sheet in the ~$2M to ~$4M tier, as they would need the 2020 2nd, which is unavailable due to the condition on the Fox trade.

I think their offer sheet calculator is just being wonky because the Rangers don't have the 2020 3rd right now, but they technically do still have the 2020 2nd.

Just a minor tool error that they said they'd add to their list to fix.

 

[Fitzy]

I think Skjei is the centerpiece for a Trouba deal. I also wonder if Lundkvist becomes available with the trade for Fox.

Teams don't usually trade 1st round prospects that are still in Europe unless they think they might not sign with them. They usually at least wait until they play in NA to know what they have. Those that do (Caps w Forsberg) often live to regret it.

Fox is more likely to make either Pionk or DeAngelo available.

Winn 1 + Pionk for Trouba would make WPG look like idiots. That's arguably less value than Hayes got, without RFA protection, and Trouba is a superior player.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Teams don't usually trade 1st round prospects that are still in Europe unless they think they might not sign with them. They usually at least wait until they play in NA to know what they have. Those that do (Caps w Forsberg) often live to regret it.

Fox is more likely to make either Pionk or DeAngelo available.

Winn 1 + Pionk for Trouba would make WPG look like idiots. That's arguably less value than Hayes got, without RFA protection, and Trouba is a superior player.

DeAngelo is absolutely not available.

 

[bobbop]

Since offer sheets are being brought back up, here is the current status of what offer sheets the Rangers can do:

So, the no compensation tier ($0-$1.339M), one 2nd round pick ($2.029M-$4.059M), or four 1st round picks ($10.148M+)

Trouble.

You can only use your own draft picks to cover an offer sheet. The Rangers have committed their second or third for next year in the Fox trade. That takes a lot of these compensation tiers off the board.

 

[RGY]

I’m more worried about possible NHL front office retribution honestly, so not sure I’d even be worth it.

How so? Are you saying other teams being pissed that we helped Toronto keep their young stars and thus coming after ours?

Either way I just dont have an interest in Marleau.

 

[RGY]

When Gorton talks about possibly accelerating things, those are the kinds of players that come to mind. It's not so much an acceleration of the timeline to a playoff return, but moreso an adjustment of the time they have to wait before they see a measurable leap forward in the talent level of the core group.

Now I certainly have some reservations about both players but they're certainly of the right age and talent level that they could be part of a high-quality core for a long time. If the Rangers felt that between Nylander and Chytil they definitely had at least one high-quality center, and they could let Kakko, Kravtsov, and Buch fill in around them, then you could almost make the argument that the top-9 is solidified on paper.

Same thing on the blue line. You add Trouba and let ADA, Fox, Lundkvist and Pionk battle it out for the final 2 spots while the left-side guys develop. You just sort of have to sit back and either wait for the cream to rise to the top or be able to jump on a prime trade opportunity when it arises.

That all being said I have a hard time imagining scenarios where we land one or both guys where we don't sacrifice some of that prospect pool we've been building.

I think we need to wait a little bit longer before we package some of our multitude of prospects for a proven NHL player even if Nylander is young and Trouba is still relatively young.

Think its too early. You run the risk of moving the wrong prospects. Maybe the guy you move ends up being the one to keep over the other guy. There isnt enough separation yet

 

[Matt4776]

When Gorton talks about possibly accelerating things, those are the kinds of players that come to mind. It's not so much an acceleration of the timeline to a playoff return, but moreso an adjustment of the time they have to wait before they see a measurable leap forward in the talent level of the core group.

Now I certainly have some reservations about both players but they're certainly of the right age and talent level that they could be part of a high-quality core for a long time. If the Rangers felt that between Nylander and Chytil they definitely had at least one high-quality center, and they could let Kakko, Kravtsov, and Buch fill in around them, then you could almost make the argument that the top-9 is solidified on paper.

Same thing on the blue line. You add Trouba and let ADA, Fox, Lundkvist and Pionk battle it out for the final 2 spots while the left-side guys develop. You just sort of have to sit back and either wait for the cream to rise to the top or be able to jump on a prime trade opportunity when it arises.

That all being said I have a hard time imagining scenarios where we land one or both guys where we don't sacrifice some of that prospect pool we've been building.

Yeah I'm very much against any trade that results in the bolded.

If either team wants to make a more "hockey trade"-esque deal (i.e. a guy like Skjei being the center piece with an add) I'm more than fine with it. Though, I don't see how Toronto would afford Skjei cap-wise, and they already have Rielly and Muzzin, but point stands.

I'm definitely not in favor of trading pure futures/cost controlled assets for either player, though.

 

[Irishguy42]

Trouble.

You can only use your own draft picks to cover an offer sheet. The Rangers have committed their second or third for next year in the Fox trade. That takes a lot of these compensation tiers off the board.

I asked CF about that and they said it was an error with the calculator, since technically we traded the 2020 3rd away, but still have the 2020 2nd for the time being, so their calculator read that as available for offer sheet purposes (they said they'd fix it).

 

[Edge]

I think we need to wait a little bit longer before we package some of our multitude of prospects for a proven NHL player even if Nylander is young and Trouba is still relatively young.

Think its too early. You run the risk of moving the wrong prospects. Maybe the guy you move ends up being the one to keep over the other guy. There isnt enough separation yet

This is why I think the timing is off.

I mean we are literally a year into this thing, I really don’t think we’re in the market to start moving prospects already, especially multiple guys.

Frankly, it’s a bit concerning how these conversations keep inching closer and closer to the danger zone for me.

First it was EK who was the free agent exception because he was a generational talent who still had life in his game.

Then it was a free agent signing like Panarin because those guys never come around.

Now we’ve slowly started having trades creep into the conversations because a guy like Trouba is just what we need. And like always, guys like him don’t come around often.

Along the way we’ve gone from just a contract or two, to maybe just a prospect as part of the deal, to maybe just a prospect and a pick as part of a deal. I can already see where this is going.

 

[Zibanejbread]

RE: Orpik/COL trade - they also got their current starter/future goalie in that deal. So, there was an additional piece to the "circumvention" that didn't make it as obvious. Not even mentioning they gave up a 2nd in the deal. I would be annoyed if NYR gave up a 2nd for Marleau unless a Kapanen/Johnsson was coming with him.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

How so? Are you saying other teams being pissed that we helped Toronto keep their young stars and thus coming after ours?

Either way I just dont have an interest in Marleau.

See a couple of posts above people talking about it. Washington/Colorado did this with Orpik last season and the league pretty much told them watch it, and that if it's provable then there would be consequences.

 

[RGY]

See a couple of posts above people talking about it. Washington/Colorado did this with Orpik last season and the league pretty much told them watch it, and that if it's provable then there would be consequences.

Ohh gotcha. I see now what youre saying. Did not go through all the posts thoroughly.

Basically allowing Toronto to circumvent.

 

[Cassano]

Crazy how Pittsburgh are considering to trade Malkin when he's done so much for them and is still elite.

 

[RGY]

This is why I think the timing is off.

I mean we are literally a year into this thing, I really don’t think we’re in the market to start moving prospects already, especially multiple guys.

Frankly, it’s a bit concerning how these conversations keep inching closer and closer to the danger zone for me.

First it was EK who was the free agent exception because he was a generational talent who still had life in his game.

Then it was a free agent signing like Panarin because those guys never come around.

Now we’ve slowly started having trades creep into the conversations because a guy like Trouba is just what we need. And like always, guys like him don’t come around often.

Along the way we’ve gone from just a contract or two, to maybe just a prospect as part of the deal, to maybe just a prospect and a pick as part of a deal. I can already see where this is going.

I have no interest in trading our prospects. Not now. Not the time.

You need to keep collecting your prospects and stocking your pool to give yourself the best odds to produce multiple great players. Tampa has done this. They just seem to be a turnstile for promoting from within to have great depth, even if they did choke this year.

I am a big proponent of signing Panarin. If it doesnt happen then whatever. But if we are going to be adding something it should be something that does not cost us assets. Do not trade from our prospect pool.

 

[Trxjw]

I think we need to wait a little bit longer before we package some of our multitude of prospects for a proven NHL player even if Nylander is young and Trouba is still relatively young.

Think its too early. You run the risk of moving the wrong prospects. Maybe the guy you move ends up being the one to keep over the other guy. There isnt enough separation yet

I don't love the timing either, but I think it's closer to the type of acquisition the team would be interested in making than signing Panarin is.

Personally, my willingness to crack open the piggy bank really starts next summer.

 

[RGY]

Crazy how Pittsburgh are considering to trade Malkin when he's done so much for them and is still elite.

Getting older. Doesnt stay healthy enough. I mean he still performs but he not the level he once did imo.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Crazy how Pittsburgh are considering to trade Malkin when he's done so much for them and is still elite.

They are smart. Might as well try to start retooling a bit and getting some elite young talent in return. Their window is closing a bit.

 

[Cassano]

Getting older. Doesnt stay healthy enough. I mean he still performs but he not the level he once did imo.

They are smart. Might as well try to start retooling a bit and getting some elite young talent in return. Their window is closing a bit.

I just think you can't be trading a guy like that. It's like the Rangers trading Leetch. Just wrong. Should retire with them. They still need centers.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I just think you can't be trading a guy like that. It's like the Rangers trading Leetch. Just wrong. Should retire with them. They still need centers.

Well he has a NMC, so it's up to him in the end.

 

[Trxjw]

Yeah I'm very much against any trade that results in the bolded.

If either team wants to make a more "hockey trade"-esque deal (i.e. a guy like Skjei being the center piece with an add) I'm more than fine with it. Though, I don't see how Toronto would afford Skjei cap-wise, and they already have Rielly and Muzzin, but point stands.

I'm definitely not in favor of trading pure futures/cost controlled assets for either player, though.

I agree. I didn't mean to imply that I'm on board with dealing from the prospect pool to land these guys or anything. I like what we're building and want to stick with it.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I don't love the timing either, but I think it's closer to the type of acquisition the team would be interested in making than signing Panarin is.

Personally, my willingness to crack open the piggy bank really starts next summer.

My speculation is more borne out of the idea that Gorton intends to be aggressive. I do think Trouba checks a lot of boxes for the Rangers, but I understand the hesitation. As you said, neither Trouba nor Nylander is the ideal acquisition, but, both make more sense from a timeline perspective than either a Panarin or Karlsson does. I’m really in the camp of waiting one more year before pouncing. I think you likely have one more top seven pick, plus a likely 1st from Dallas re-signing Zuccarello. I also think players like Vesey, Namestnikov and Strome have the possibility of returning 2nd round picks.

 

[Leetch3]

My speculation is more borne out of the idea that Gorton intends to be aggressive. I do think Trouba checks a lot of boxes for the Rangers, but I understand the hesitation. As you said, neither Trouba nor Nylander is the ideal acquisition, but, both make more sense from a timeline perspective than either a Panarin or Karlsson does. I’m really in the camp of waiting one more year before pouncing. I think you likely have one more top seven pick, plus a likely 1st from Dallas re-signing Zuccarello. I also think players like Vesey, Namestnikov and Strome have the possibility of returning 2nd round picks.

but does gorton really intending to be aggressive or is that just wishful thinking by the people that don't have the stomach for a rebuild?

 

[Ghost of jas]

but does gorton really intending to be aggressive or is that just wishful thinking by the people that don't have the stomach for a rebuild?

I’m using Friedman’s most recent 31 thoughts as the basis for the idea that Gorton intends to be aggressive. Again, many in the national media have misinterpreted Gorton’s approach throughout this rebuild, and this could be another example. But, I do think Gorton is going to be aggressive, such as this trade for Fox, and the rumors of trading up in the draft, which isn’t the same as what Friedman is saying.

 

[Avery16]

I think with two 2nd rounders and our scouting department, we could've drafted a younger Adam Fox. Moreover, we could've waited a year and had both. I don't see why this was necessary at all. One 2nd for an expedited timeline? Ok, I guess. Price of doing business. Two? No, I don't see how that is advisable.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think with two 2nd rounders and our scouting department, we could've drafted a younger Adam Fox. Moreover, we could've waited a year and had both. I don't see why this was necessary at all. One 2nd for an expedited timeline? Ok, I guess. Price of doing business. Two? No, I don't see how that is advisable.

The completion of this trade tells me that the Rangers don’t agree with your premise.