Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XL

[EpicDing]

His buyout would open up a spot on the 4th line, which is where he has played a lot in the end. Sure he dropped back to D for emergencies, but the Rangers real problem on LD is how to get both Hajek and Lingren playing time with Marc Staal occupying a spot.

Buy him out and in 2021-2022 & 2022-2023, he will still count $1.1 against the cap. I think that Girardi's dead cap space compounds that.

I think that I am more coming to BRF's point of view. Play him on the wing, getting his 6 minutes and let him protect the kids. Unless the Rangers have another 4th line wing that they need desperately to get in (who knows what the multiple 7th rounders get), from a 4th line perspective, who is he blocking? Let him play and let's not incur dead cap space hits.

I would much prefer Nieves, Fogarty, or Gettinger getting that ice time over him.

Just send his ass to Hartford if a younger guy is ready for a full time role. No need to buy him out.

He would cost more in Hartford than buying him out would against the cap.

 

[Thirty One]

I would much prefer Nieves, Fogarty, or Gettinger getting that ice time over him.



He would cost more in Hartford than buying him out would against the cap.

I'm more concerned about saving the 2021-22 and 2022-23 cap space than the 2019-20 and 2020-21 cap space.

 

[Beacon]

Another issue Gorton must address is how he is to handle Staal, Shatty and Smith.

Two more years on those deals.

I believe we will get value for them in their last TDL when money and term are no longer an issue. Teams are desperate for veteran depth on D for the playoffs. Someone will throw a 2nd or a 3rd for them when their salaries are no longer a concern.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

How about instead we just draft a cost controlled kid in the top-5 or even top-2 in 2020?

We could just do both

 

[I Eat Crow]

Gorton has gone on record stating that Kreider will be dealt with one way or another this summer. Traded at the draft or in July or extended. He doesn't want another Hayes/Zuccarello situation. Dealing him during the draft or over the summer increases the number of suitors. Look at who's left in the playoffs. Every wildcard team made it to the second round. Every team on the cusp like Philly, Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida, Arizona, or Montreal is sitting and watching these playoffs thinking "this could have been us, we were just a couple of points short of making the playoffs, anything can happen once you're in the playoffs. I should try and bolster my team for a chance at making a run". Those teams will be very interested in Kreider. Will have to assume Edmonton and Buffalo, maybe Montreal are on Kreider's no trade list, so eliminate them. Still, there's three excellent suitors plus whoever else made the playoffs that will end up coming up short that will surely be interested.

Kreider with a year left gets the Rangers a late 1st and a decent prospect or a 1st next year.

Kreider with 50% salary retention gets the Rangers a 2019 pick between 13-18ish overall if a team in that range is interested.

Kreider with an extension after July 1st nets the Rangers a 2020 1st and a decent prospect.

What do you all think is the best course?

 

[SA16]

How about instead we just draft a cost controlled kid in the top-5 or even top-2 in 2020?

Well for one even if you’re the absolute worst team in the league you are still most likely not picking in the top 2.

So “let’s just pick in the top 2” is not exactly something you can just do

 

[Shesterkybomb]

We discuss this topic a lot on a principle level, but when it comes to actual decisions I don't think the differences are as big as it might seem.

My stance is this:
-What is the difference between really trying to tank and as you put it, start building for tomorrow and try to take the next step?

I think you have a point in that there is a difference and its the key choice Gorton has to take. From my POV the difference is not about Panarin, he might not even hit the market, if he do he might only listen to Florida. Instead the big difference is how approach depth issues on our roster. Do we keep NHL capable players around at all positions and enter camp after the summer with 15 forwards that competes for a NHL spot as well as 8-9 Ds? Or do we sell-off not only Chris Kreider but also Namestnikov and Vesey? Do we bringing a defender or two like Claesson and McQuaid or rely on that openings on the blueline can be fulfilled from within by the players in Hartford?

You can never beforehand know how a season will play out exactly, and no matter what we are tremendously reliant on Zibanejad staying healthy the whole year. But if we have a lot of internal competition at all positions -- I believe that we will get a fair amount of pts. If we don't, I expect us to finish bottom 6-7 at least.

-If we really try to tank, i.e. by selling off the established NHLers we have and not replacing them, and hence entering next season with very little internal competitions for spots, I think it seriously must reflect the number of kids we have on the roster. Kakko is only 18 y/o, he should be left in Finland if we try to tank. And from my POV it is not even close. Lias is another kid that should be in the AHL.

I think we only could afford to give two kids, Chytil and Kravtsov, a good environment around Zibanejad and our 2nd line.

-If we don't try to tank and keep several kids on the roster, we must be aware that we will ruin them if we cannot put them in a position in which they can play to their strengths.

I think you sell off on Vesey, probably Namestnicov too, and Kreider can stay if he wants to take a reasonable contract. I personally think we are at the point in the rebuild where the kids become the focal point, chytil, , Kravtsov, Buchnevich, and Strome being used in the top 6 with Kreider and Zibanajad and being relied on in key situations. Panarin is the only high money free agent I'd persue and if we dont get him then just roll with what you have. On d the same thing really. Staal and Shattenkirk should step back a bit and give way to Skjei, Hajek,Pionk and DeAngelo. If we win we win, if we don't we get a better draft pick but the focus should be to play to win.

 

[NYR Viper]

Gorton has gone on record stating that Kreider will be dealt with one way or another this summer. Traded at the draft or in July or extended. He doesn't want another Hayes/Zuccarello situation. Dealing him during the draft or over the summer increases the number of suitors. Look at who's left in the playoffs. Every wildcard team made it to the second round. Every team on the cusp like Philly, Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida, Arizona, or Montreal is sitting and watching these playoffs thinking "this could have been us, we were just a couple of points short of making the playoffs, anything can happen once you're in the playoffs. I should try and bolster my team for a chance at making a run". Those teams will be very interested in Kreider. Will have to assume Edmonton and Buffalo, maybe Montreal are on Kreider's no trade list, so eliminate them. Still, there's three excellent suitors plus whoever else made the playoffs that will end up coming up short that will surely be interested.

Kreider with a year left gets the Rangers a late 1st and a decent prospect or a 1st next year.

Kreider with 50% salary retention gets the Rangers a 2019 pick between 13-18ish overall if a team in that range is interested.

Kreider with an extension after July 1st nets the Rangers a 2020 1st and a decent prospect.

What do you all think is the best course?

I would go option B, although I would be hoping for more than a pick in the 14-16 range

 

[I Eat Crow]

Well for one even if you’re the absolute worst team in the league you are still most likely not picking in the top 2.

So “let’s just pick in the top 2” is not exactly something you can just do

While this is true, if the Rangers finish among the worst two teams in the league, they can't drop any further down than 5th overall. Based on the early scouting reports and the performances of the D-1 kids in the U18 tournament that just concluded, I'm more than comfortable feeling that the Rangers would get an impact player anywhere in the top 5.

 

[NYR Viper]

While this is true, if the Rangers finish among the worst two teams in the league, they can't drop any further down than 5th overall. Based on the early scouting reports and the performances of the D-1 kids in the U18 tournament that just concluded, I'm more than comfortable feeling that the Rangers would get an impact player anywhere in the top 5.

Based on this team as currently constructed as well, even with Kreider, I can't see them being better than bottom-5 next year by the time all is said and done

 

[I Eat Crow]

Based on this team as currently constructed as well, even with Kreider, I can't see them being better than bottom-5 next year by the time all is said and done

This is how I feel. Even with Kakko and Kravtsov coming in, they won't make up for the production lost in losing Hayes and Zuccarello. Even more so if Kreider is dealt.

Said it before and I'll repeat it here. Even with Kakko and Kravtsov and some improvement in Chytil, Andersson, Howden, ADA, and a healthy Hajek, next year is the bottom out year. Liquidate Fast, Vesey (if not this summer), Namestnikov, and see if you can offload a Staal or Smith for 50% retained for a slew of 2nd and 3rd rounders next year (maybe get a 1st from a team that might want two of the above mentioned players). Pick top 5 again, and get to work in 2020-21.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Shattenkirk.

Rangers were not considered Cup contenders when he signed here.

And how has that worked out?

 

[bobbop]

They did alright. A lot of revisionist history here. Not including Lundqvist, Betts, Prucha, Moore, Hollweg, Tyutin and then Staal, Dubi, Cally, Girardi. That's not even factoring in guys like Hossa and Orr. The would go on to draft Hagelin/Stepan/Del Z/Kreider/Anisomov in those years as well and get McD in a big trade.

A lot of those guys had solid NHL careers like a Tyutin, Ortmeyer and Betts.

Once again,no superstars, but find support players. A lot of the picks from 05-09 played a large role in the runs they'd have in 12, 14, ad 15.

Revisionist history? There’s a lot of fourth liners on your list. In fact two teams worth.

I was specifically referring to the young players assembled in 2004 and the resulting draft. The Maloney draft...8 picks in the first three rounds....fortunately they also picked Ryan Callahan in the fourth round because they didn’t end up with much from the first three rounds.

You better hope the Rangers pick up more than one long term piece (albeit a third liner) with their next eight draft picks.

 

[bobbop]

With Kakko (and probably) Kravtsov coming next year, I don’t see any place for Vesey in the lineup. Vesey is not an effective fourth line player. He’s entering his walk year. Very logical trade candidate. Most likely he brings back a high third or a low second.

Fast and Namestnikov are useful players who can play up and down the lineup. Both are good penalty killers. Fast is economical, Namestnikov is not (unless he is moved with salary retained) both are very good locker room guys. I expect the Rangers would like to retain Fast longer term at or near his current price. Unless something changes dramatically Namestnikov will not make $4.1 MM on his next contract. He’s probably a good deadline trade bait when half of his remaining salary can be retained.

 

[True Blue]

I would much prefer Nieves, Fogarty, or Gettinger getting that ice time over him.

You are talking about marginal prospects.

He would cost more in Hartford than buying him out would against the cap.

Why is he going to Hartford?

And again, the concern is how much dead cap space he would take up 3 & 4 years from now than next year.

 

[True Blue]

Gorton has gone on record stating that Kreider will be dealt with one way or another this summer.

I thought the contecxt was if Kreider does not resign with the Rangers, then the team will not create another Hayes/Zucc issue for next year. That is not the same as making a blanket statement that Kreider will be traded. He very well may, and I would think that Gorton would move him before next year starts. But that only supposes that Gorton did not see a deal that he likes and that Kreider's contract demands were not in line with what Gorton had in his head. I think that if the deals are not interesting and Kreider's demands are in line, then he is resigned.

 

[RGY]

I thought the contecxt was if Kreider does not resign with the Rangers, then the team will not create another Hayes/Zucc issue for next year. That is not the same as making a blanket statement that Kreider will be traded. He very well may, and I would think that Gorton would move him before next year starts. But that only supposes that Gorton did not see a deal that he likes and that Kreider's contract demands were not in line with what Gorton had in his head. I think that if the deals are not interesting and Kreider's demands are in line, then he is resigned.

Yea I want to know when Gorton said he is absolutely trading Kreider. Pretty sure it was only if they cannot come to terms with him.

 

[Waivers]

How about instead we just draft a cost controlled kid in the top-5 or even top-2 in 2020?

I’m fine with that too. As I mentioned earlier, I’m only interested in Panarin due to his raw talent. I’m not interested in any UFAs in the next year or two. Either we add a proven 80+ point winger to the squad in his late 20s whose production on ice, whichever way you look at it, is trending up, which we inevitably need anyway, or we just elongate the rebuild process. I thought Gorton said he was going to look into UFAs this offseason anyway to “expedite” the rebuild.

 

[bobbop]

Gorton has gone on record stating that Kreider will be dealt with one way or another this summer. Traded at the draft or in July or extended. He doesn't want another Hayes/Zuccarello situation. Dealing him during the draft or over the summer increases the number of suitors. Look at who's left in the playoffs. Every wildcard team made it to the second round. Every team on the cusp like Philly, Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida, Arizona, or Montreal is sitting and watching these playoffs thinking "this could have been us, we were just a couple of points short of making the playoffs, anything can happen once you're in the playoffs. I should try and bolster my team for a chance at making a run". Those teams will be very interested in Kreider. Will have to assume Edmonton and Buffalo, maybe Montreal are on Kreider's no trade list, so eliminate them. Still, there's three excellent suitors plus whoever else made the playoffs that will end up coming up short that will surely be interested.

Kreider with a year left gets the Rangers a late 1st and a decent prospect or a 1st next year.

Kreider with 50% salary retention gets the Rangers a 2019 pick between 13-18ish overall if a team in that range is interested.

Kreider with an extension after July 1st nets the Rangers a 2020 1st and a decent prospect.

What do you all think is the best course?

I like your thinking on the number of teams that would be interested in Kreider, but I think your expected return is light.

One team you didn’t mention that I think is possible is Pittsburgh. They are not rebuilding. They want to take at least one more kick at the can before they make major moves. Adding Kreider at a discount price, even for a year, could be an interesting move for them. Rutherford has a brass set. He knows that a major rebuild is imminent at some point. Crosby and Malkin can’t play forever.

 

[Calad]

This is how I feel. Even with Kakko and Kravtsov coming in, they won't make up for the production lost in losing Hayes and Zuccarello. Even more so if Kreider is dealt.

Said it before and I'll repeat it here. Even with Kakko and Kravtsov and some improvement in Chytil, Andersson, Howden, ADA, and a healthy Hajek, next year is the bottom out year. Liquidate Fast, Vesey (if not this summer), Namestnikov, and see if you can offload a Staal or Smith for 50% retained for a slew of 2nd and 3rd rounders next year (maybe get a 1st from a team that might want two of the above mentioned players). Pick top 5 again, and get to work in 2020-21.

I agree. Too many vets left this past season and even more will be on their way out this coming season. It's gonna be a real ugly year.

 

[Waivers]

Gorton has gone on record stating that Kreider will be dealt with one way or another this summer. Traded at the draft or in July or extended. He doesn't want another Hayes/Zuccarello situation. Dealing him during the draft or over the summer increases the number of suitors. Look at who's left in the playoffs. Every wildcard team made it to the second round. Every team on the cusp like Philly, Buffalo, Edmonton, Florida, Arizona, or Montreal is sitting and watching these playoffs thinking "this could have been us, we were just a couple of points short of making the playoffs, anything can happen once you're in the playoffs. I should try and bolster my team for a chance at making a run". Those teams will be very interested in Kreider. Will have to assume Edmonton and Buffalo, maybe Montreal are on Kreider's no trade list, so eliminate them. Still, there's three excellent suitors plus whoever else made the playoffs that will end up coming up short that will surely be interested.

Kreider with a year left gets the Rangers a late 1st and a decent prospect or a 1st next year.

Kreider with 50% salary retention gets the Rangers a 2019 pick between 13-18ish overall if a team in that range is interested.

Kreider with an extension after July 1st nets the Rangers a 2020 1st and a decent prospect.

What do you all think is the best course?

If we can retain salary for a year, which we can and should to increase the return, we should. I would love to leverage or package Kreider at 50% with something to get into the Top 10 this year. We need to scoop a high caliber Center because I don’t know if Strome is a final piece either, seems more like a buffer until they figure out Chytl/Howden/Andersson development. We will be absolutely lethal up front if we sign Panarin for quite some time, just need to use our other 1st round picks for defenseman. I like how the Rangers are filling out though.

 

[Anthony5967]

Anybody else on board with a Point offer sheet?

 

[Gardner McKay]

I like your thinking on the number of teams that would be interested in Kreider, but I think your expected return is light.

One team you didn’t mention that I think is possible is Pittsburgh. They are not rebuilding. They want to take at least one more kick at the can before they make major moves. Adding Kreider at a discount price, even for a year, could be an interesting move for them. Rutherford has a brass set. He knows that a major rebuild is imminent at some point. Crosby and Malkin can’t play forever.

You know me. I say this not in a smart ass way towards you or demeaning way towards Pittsburgh, but rather as a genuine question.

Realistically, does Pittsburgh even have enough to offer for Kreider? Factoring in of course I assume he would be a bit more expensive being traded within the division...

Anybody else on board with a Point offer sheet?

Helllllll no.

 

[Anthony5967]

You know me. I say this not in a smart ass way towards you or demeaning way towards Pittsburgh, but rather as a genuine question.

Realistically, does Pittsburgh even have enough to offer for Kreider? Factoring in of course I assume he would be a bit more expensive being traded within the division...


Helllllll no.

You'd rather hold on to those picks, understandable. Personally, if they draft Kakko, offer-sheet Point, this team will be filled to the brim with ELITE, high-end talent.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Anybody else on board with a Point offer sheet?

10m for 7 years. Force Tampa to make a move. And the compensation is reasonable (1st, 2nd and 3rd)