Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XL

[bobbop]

Didn't they change the rules to allow pending UFA's to talk to other teams like a week before being able to sign?

Yes they did, but the window doesn’t extend to before the draft,

 

[bobbop]

Didn't they change the rules to allow pending UFA's to talk to other teams like a week before being able to sign?

Yes they did, but the window doesn’t extend to before the draft,

 

[FIRE DRURY]

You guys keep bringing up signing a player like Panarin who’s going to cost a ridiculous amount of money and for a very long time... With a NMC.

Or, you want to pay Kreider close to double what he’s making now for the next 1/2 decade + with a NMC.

I don’t give a **** about 2019-2020. Or 2020-2021. Lose every game for all I care. The more losses, the higher the odds we put ourselves in position to draft a cost controlled superstar.

Some of you guys are going ape **** at the idea of drafting a guy like Kakko. What if you can draft another player of Kakko’s caliber next year..?

Panarin is not a 10M+ player. Period. Especially for a rebuilding team.

It’s ****ing GROUNDHOG DAY, every year with some of you. Grow a set of balls and have the patience to see this rebuild through. We have literally never done what we’re doing to this extreme. See it through. No short cuts.

Focus on the long run. That’s what the Rebuild Crowd keeps preaching. There will be other Panarins available. Or better yet, we can draft our own Panarin.

I understand the why some you guys want to trade for Trouba and sign Panarin.. It’s because they fill voids we have in our lineup right now. But the holes we have now can be areas of Strength in the future.

Moving a declining, overpaid player with a NMC is a lot harder said than done. So spare me the “trade Panarin+Trouba In the future” garbage. Those are going to be albatross contracts we’ll be married to.

We don’t know what we have right now, so tying ourselves in 50+ million contracts with limited movement options for a pair of guys who are going to ultimately decline during their monster contracts, doesn’t sound like a very smart idea.

It sounds like a stupid, shortsighted idea. Have patience. Avoid temptation, especially since that temptation has a bad track record.

NY is a desirable place to play. We’ll always have some edge with Free Agents, whether they’re unrestricted or coming out of college. But we won’t have the ability to draft where most superstars are selected if we try and half ass this rebuild by trying to ice a playoff team next year.

Sorry if I fluffed anyone’s feathers with this post. Im drunk and fired up from watching Avengers and GOT in one day. Rawr.

 

[ETTER DE]

Developing the environment for these kids to grow in is just as important as identifying the prospects themselves- that's where guys like Mika, Buch, etc. become vital. Besides, using examples from 20 years ago to explain how the NHL today is pointless and makes no sense. Training is different, systems are different, and these kids coming in now are primed to be competitive right away. The peak curve used to start in age 25-26, but it's suddenly shifting to ~22-23. Look at the top players in the NHL: with many of the best players you've known what they'll be by D+3. Yes, some are still aging on the prior curve, but using that as the fixed rule to today's game is total folly. Teams need cheap contributors. If they can step into top roles, even better.

Agree. The downside is that the younger players is closer to their potential then they used to be. Many of them do not become that much better. Have seen this in football(soccer) for a time now. We should have that in mind when we value the prospects.

 

[Beacon]

Kreider should be gone before October if they can get their hands on Panarin under fairly reasonable circumstances, otherwise he’s gone in February 2020.

Panarin is a unique UFA, right? The kind you dont see every year? Every team can use him regardless whether they are contending now, finishing their rebuilding or just started to rebuild during the 2017-18 season?

So all 31 teams will be bidding. You dont think at least 1 would go well over reasonable terms?

 

[Matt4776]

Panarin is a unique UFA, right? The kind you dont see every year? Every team can use him regardless whether they are contending now, finishing their rebuilding or just started to rebuild during the 2017-18 season?

So all 31 teams will be bidding. You dont think at least 1 would go well over reasonable terms?

You're clearly not considering the huge list of blockbuster UFAs who have given us sweetheart deals in the past.

 

[egelband]

We'd save $2.8 in 2019, $2.0 in 2020 and it'd cost $1.2 against in 2021-2022. Not that bad.

It's not necessary per se but he'd be blocking a kid from playing next year. Wouldn't we want to see Rykov, Lindgren and/or Hajek get their chance?

I'd be very happy to keep Staal, play Smith at forward, and try to move Shattenkirk. I think Staal brings more to the Rangers and yet probably is harder to move than Shattenkirk. If Shatty plays well in the first half of next season maybe he can help a team going to the playoffs.

 

[egelband]

Because he's not starting out as a Selke winner?

Panarin had a very interesting back-story. I think he's a very serious and hard-working guy. Very tenacious. I don't foresee him flaking out. In fact, I feel that his strong background is a reason he might want to come to NY (or another team of his choice) without ruining the salary structure.
I could be way off base. But that's my impression.

 

[FoxyClean]

If we trade Kreider, he'll go to Boston for a 1st +. Book it.

 

[kovazub94]

I don’t agree with keeping Kreider under pretty much any circumstance. He’ll be 29 to start his deal. If Panarin will be too old and almost out of his prime when this team truly competes than Kreider will be way out of his.

Also, if they are concerned with who will play in the top-6, go out and sign someone on a short term deal like Marcus Johansson or trade for a vet that has a year or two left but is slightly overpaid. They will have the cap space. LA may be looking to offload Toffoli.

See Johansson is exactly the type of vet I don’t want because he’ll do absolutely nothing to isolate kids or be a good partner to play with. Toffoli will cost the same picks and prospects combination the Rangers will be after in Kreider’s trade.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

We have to take a step next year, we won't be bottoming out. If you continue to bottom out year after year the players begin to tune out and start trying to build their own value instead of working as a team. Quinn built a nice foundation of accountability and work ethic, if the players are willing to work then they must be rewarded by not pulling tank mode. I'm not saying it means sign Panarin but it definately means to build for tomorrow and today at the same time and allow the players to see some light at the end of the tunnel. Kreider imo holds his own fate in his hands much like Hayes did, his asking price will decide if he is a ranger after next year.

 

[Ghost of jas]

If we trade Kreider, he'll go to Boston for a 1st +. Book it.

If the idea is to use Kreider as a means to add another top ten pick, then, no, this is not going to happen.

 

[Irishguy42]

Panarin is a unique UFA, right? The kind you dont see every year? Every team can use him regardless whether they are contending now, finishing their rebuilding or just started to rebuild during the 2017-18 season?

So all 31 teams will be bidding. You dont think at least 1 would go well over reasonable terms?

You still think it's just about the money, huh?

 

[Ola]

We have to take a step next year, we won't be bottoming out. If you continue to bottom out year after year the players begin to tune out and start trying to build their own value instead of working as a team. Quinn built a nice foundation of accountability and work ethic, if the players are willing to work then they must be rewarded by not pulling tank mode. I'm not saying it means sign Panarin but it definately means to build for tomorrow and today at the same time and allow the players to see some light at the end of the tunnel. Kreider imo holds his own fate in his hands much like Hayes did, his asking price will decide if he is a ranger after next year.

We discuss this topic a lot on a principle level, but when it comes to actual decisions I don't think the differences are as big as it might seem.

My stance is this:
-What is the difference between really trying to tank and as you put it, start building for tomorrow and try to take the next step?

I think you have a point in that there is a difference and its the key choice Gorton has to take. From my POV the difference is not about Panarin, he might not even hit the market, if he do he might only listen to Florida. Instead the big difference is how approach depth issues on our roster. Do we keep NHL capable players around at all positions and enter camp after the summer with 15 forwards that competes for a NHL spot as well as 8-9 Ds? Or do we sell-off not only Chris Kreider but also Namestnikov and Vesey? Do we bringing a defender or two like Claesson and McQuaid or rely on that openings on the blueline can be fulfilled from within by the players in Hartford?

You can never beforehand know how a season will play out exactly, and no matter what we are tremendously reliant on Zibanejad staying healthy the whole year. But if we have a lot of internal competition at all positions -- I believe that we will get a fair amount of pts. If we don't, I expect us to finish bottom 6-7 at least.

-If we really try to tank, i.e. by selling off the established NHLers we have and not replacing them, and hence entering next season with very little internal competitions for spots, I think it seriously must reflect the number of kids we have on the roster. Kakko is only 18 y/o, he should be left in Finland if we try to tank. And from my POV it is not even close. Lias is another kid that should be in the AHL.

I think we only could afford to give two kids, Chytil and Kravtsov, a good environment around Zibanejad and our 2nd line.

-If we don't try to tank and keep several kids on the roster, we must be aware that we will ruin them if we cannot put them in a position in which they can play to their strengths.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

You still think it's just about the money, huh?

It's funny that you kind of sarcastically dismiss his post, when history/factual evidence is on his side.

Top FA's across all sports (and I'm talking about FA's, not homegrown assets here) almost exclusively sign with teams based on 1 or 2 of three things:

1. Money
2. Chance to win
3. Relationship/Dream of playing for team you liked growing up

1 and 2 almost always end up as being the primary reason FA's sign somewhere. The few times that situation 3 has played a significant role in shaping a players choice, it almost always presents an opportunity with a good team. Shattenkirk, Parise, Tavares. These guys were all signing on with teams that while they grew up rooting for them, were also considered to be cup contenders.

The Rangers are not a good team. Panarin did not grow up in New York and has far less boyhood connections than any of those guys. This is his one shot at a massive payday.

I'm sorry, but if anyone thinks Panarin is signing here for anything less than near to full market value, they are fooling themselves.

When was the last time a top UFA took a discount to play on a shitty team?

 

[Irishguy42]

When was the last time a top UFA took a discount to play on a ****ty team?

Shattenkirk.

Rangers were not considered Cup contenders when he signed here.

 

[haohmaru]

Shattenkirk.

Rangers were not considered Cup contenders when he signed here.

Yeah, but he grew up a Rangers fan and had a reason. Panarin doesn't. Plus, he's already got a home in south Florida so I'd bet the best odds are on the Panthers for multiple reasons.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

If we trade Kreider, he'll go to Boston for a 1st +. Book it.

Is the plus McAvoy? A late first ain't doing it for Kreider.

 

[Irishguy42]

Yeah, but he grew up a Rangers fan and had a reason. Panarin doesn't. Plus, he's already got a home in south Florida so I'd bet the best odds are on the Panthers for multiple reasons.

Sure, just keep moving the goalposts.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Shattenkirk.

Rangers were not considered Cup contenders when he signed here.

They were still considered a potential playoff team.

 

[FoxyClean]

Is the plus McAvoy? A late first ain't doing it for Kreider.

Could be two firsts or a first plus a top prospect. Whatever it might take, I’m sure they’d be very interested in a hometown boy who fits the Boston identity.

 

[Tawnos]

Sure, just keep moving the goalposts.

He didn’t. He literally said the only reason besides money and team strength you see players sign is growing up a fan of the team.

We aren’t getting Panarin for a discount. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t pursue him anyway.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Could be two firsts or a first plus a top prospect. Whatever it might take, I’m sure they’d be very interested in a hometown boy who fits the Boston identity.

My point is that Kreider should not be traded in any trade that includes only the 26, 29,30, or 31 pick in this draft. Way too low.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Is the plus McAvoy? A late first ain't doing it for Kreider.

His value is much closer to the Boston 1st, and further from McAvoy + 1st.

He's a wing going into the last year of his deal.

I would deal him fwiw, but people need to set their expectations.

 

[Waivers]

Panarin is a unique UFA, right? The kind you dont see every year? Every team can use him regardless whether they are contending now, finishing their rebuilding or just started to rebuild during the 2017-18 season?

So all 31 teams will be bidding. You dont think at least 1 would go well over reasonable terms?

Probably but if Panarin wants to play in a popular city and not somewhere remote in the desert, that weeds out a lot of teams. He’s going to take the money, for sure, but even if a team like Arizona or Ottawa proposed him 12m per year, he’s not going to go and play there for several years.