Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV

[Leetch3]

To the best of my knowledge, and for those who cannot scroll up, there was no Trouba trade proposal. A poster suggested I proposed trading Trouba. I what the proposal was, and they were unable to reply.

so this post isn't proposing that the rangers trade trouba before his trade protection starts in July?

As an alternative, Troubas trade protections don’t kick in until July. Locked down long term, he’d be a very attractive add for a team he wouldn’t otherwise have signed with.

 

[MrAlmost]

The last five years it has been very obvious that these stats didn’t reflect how good a player is, rel or adjusted or whatever. It’s down right hard to see any connection between these stats and performance.

The problem is that nobody looked for anything that didn’t support their theory, and confirmation bias is a thing...

I know many (very) bright people have backed them up, the thing is that they just don’t even remotely carry over from one situation to another. They exactly describe how a unit did in a game, how a unit did matching up against another unit and give you a ton of important info. But you CANNOT corsi scout individual players. A player on one team have one metrical identity, then their role change and they over night become a totally different player. Not to mention when a player change teams or what not. This pattern is so obvious. And the exceptions that suck so much that they always get sheltered, like say an Adam Clendenning or Cody Frasson or someone like that.

Jacob Trouba was a metric darling in Winnipeg. We just cannot start to hate him now just because he — like every player in the world ever, the last few years — get a very bad CF rating when they play the hardest minutes for us.

I'm not a big advanced stats guy, but this organization is sick. Its rotten from top to bottom. Great players come here and cant produce. Forwards cant score, defensemen aren't as dynamic, goalies lose the edge, fighters are run down, coaches shelf life is shorter, etc. Something in this shit hole franchise just brings the worst out in every player and these types of numbers, as well as others, just prove it more and more every day. It's very weird. And very sad.

 

[Cag29]

Yes the Rangers need another Top Six Center. I do not care if that means Zibanejad is 1st line or 2nd line, but Mika is a part of the solution. He is not the problem.

Not if he keeps getting concussions.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Not if he keeps getting concussions.

Bigger problem for me is that the bruins somehow always get by with knocking players out of the game with no retribution.

 

[Savant]

Not if he keeps getting concussions.

Anyone can get a concussion. Not everyone is a PPG player when they are healthy. What would you propose to do instead? You aren’t trading him for a better player, especially not at that contract.

 

[Dijock94]

Anyone can get a concussion. Not everyone is a PPG player when they are healthy. What would you propose to do instead? You aren’t trading him for a better player, especially not at that contract.

Yea let’s trade our best player in his bring “because he misses some games sometimes”

 

[Avery16]

so this post isn't proposing that the rangers trade trouba before his trade protection starts in July?

Read the first three words of the post you quoted. Think about their meaning for a second. Then scroll up.

 

[Algernop Kreider]

Which three defensemen do we protect in expansion out of Trouba, DeAngelo, Skjei, Hajek, Lindgren?

Seems like a no-brainer to protect Trouba and expose Lindgren. But we could be looking at a tough decision with those other three. If we sign TDA long term, will Hajek play himself into Skjei's spot over the next two seasons?

 

[Fitzy]

Which three defensemen do we protect in expansion out of Trouba, DeAngelo, Skjei, Hajek, Lindgren?

Seems like a no-brainer to protect Trouba and expose Lindgren. But we could be looking at a tough decision with those other three. If we sign TDA long term, will Hajek play himself into Skjei's spot over the next two seasons?

Honestly we have a long way to go before worrying about that. Any of those aforementioned players could realistically be gone by that point, be it trades or just busting as a prospect.

 

[ElLeetch]

Which three defensemen do we protect in expansion out of Trouba, DeAngelo, Skjei, Hajek, Lindgren?

Trouba and ADA. Not Brady. Then flip a coin on Hajek and Lindgren.

 

[Leetch3]

Which three defensemen do we protect in expansion out of Trouba, DeAngelo, Skjei, Hajek, Lindgren?

Seems like a no-brainer to protect Trouba and expose Lindgren. But we could be looking at a tough decision with those other three. If we sign TDA long term, will Hajek play himself into Skjei's spot over the next two seasons?

trouba has a NMC so there isn't an option there we are forced to protect him...along with 2 others.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I'm not a big advanced stats guy, but this organization is sick. Its rotten from top to bottom. Great players come here and cant produce. Forwards cant score, defensemen aren't as dynamic, goalies lose the edge, fighters are run down, coaches shelf life is shorter, etc. Something in this **** hole franchise just brings the worst out in every player and these types of numbers, as well as others, just prove it more and more every day. It's very weird. And very sad.

Gaborik and Nash produced. Panarin has been producing as well. Zbad has produced.

ADA has been a fresh breath of air. So has Fox. And Trouba.

Renney, Torts, and AV all spent 5 season's here as head coaches, so our coaches shelf lives don't seem to be getting shorter.

Sather built a team that competed but fell short. Gorton is tearing it down and rebuilding it. There's a lot of good happening here but we'll have to be patient and trust the process.

 

[Gardner McKay]

He is tearing it up in the Liiga.

Which means what? See below...

Puljujaarvi has 11 goals, 20 points, and is +17 in 18 games for Karpat in the Finnish league so far this season.

While that is impressive, there is a very long list of players who dominated in other leagues only to be completely ineffective in the NHL. Nothing about his game makes me believe he will be able to turn it around in the NHL.

Would I take a chance? Sure. But not for anything that Edmonton would accept at this stage of the game. If he is traded sooner than later the value will almost certainly be well below what Edmonton fans are expecting but a bit more than the rest of us would expect.

Which three defensemen do we protect in expansion out of Trouba, DeAngelo, Skjei, Hajek, Lindgren?

Seems like a no-brainer to protect Trouba and expose Lindgren. But we could be looking at a tough decision with those other three. If we sign TDA long term, will Hajek play himself into Skjei's spot over the next two seasons?

I'd work as hard as possible to find a taker for Skjei this season. Trouba is an obvious choice to keep. ADA is looking to be a more obvious choice and if Hajek and Lindgren are both playing well, maybe we send a pick to Seattle to ensure they take a different player. There is a lot of time to figure that out in my opinion.

 

[Cag29]

Bigger problem for me is that the bruins somehow always get by with knocking players out of the game with no retribution.[/QUOT
No doubt. We need skill with grit. Very tough to find. I’m not talking about fighting. I mean players like Adam Graves.
Lemieux is like that. Kreider should be but isn’t.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I'm not a big advanced stats guy, but this organization is sick. Its rotten from top to bottom. Great players come here and cant produce. Forwards cant score, defensemen aren't as dynamic, goalies lose the edge, fighters are run down, coaches shelf life is shorter, etc. Something in this **** hole franchise just brings the worst out in every player and these types of numbers, as well as others, just prove it more and more every day. It's very weird. And very sad.

On a lighter note, Ebola is back

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I'm not a big advanced stats guy, but this organization is sick. Its rotten from top to bottom. Great players come here and cant produce. Forwards cant score, defensemen aren't as dynamic, goalies lose the edge, fighters are run down, coaches shelf life is shorter, etc. Something in this **** hole franchise just brings the worst out in every player and these types of numbers, as well as others, just prove it more and more every day. It's very weird. And very sad.

Are you talking about the Rangers?

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Gaborik and Nash produced. Panarin has been producing as well. Zbad has produced.

ADA has been a fresh breath of air. So has Fox. And Trouba.

Renney, Torts, and AV all spent 5 season's here as head coaches, so our coaches shelf lives don't seem to be getting shorter.

Sather built a team that competed but fell short. Gorton is tearing it down and rebuilding it. There's a lot of good happening here but we'll have to be patient and trust the process.

Good use of the NHL’s latest buzzword, Process.

 

[Cag29]

Anyone can get a concussion. Not everyone is a PPG player when they are healthy. What would you propose to do instead? You aren’t trading him for a better player, especially not at that contract.[/
I don’t know what the answer is but f he has concussion problems we can’t risk signing him to a 7 year extension.

 

[Fitzy]

Yea let’s trade our best player in his bring “because he misses some games sometimes”

Like Pittsburgh did with Crosby and Malkin. Injury prone bums

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

I'm not a big advanced stats guy, but this organization is sick. Its rotten from top to bottom. Great players come here and cant produce. Forwards cant score, defensemen aren't as dynamic, goalies lose the edge, fighters are run down, coaches shelf life is shorter, etc. Something in this **** hole franchise just brings the worst out in every player and these types of numbers, as well as others, just prove it more and more every day. It's very weird. And very sad.

oh look a time traveler from 2002.

make sure to buy Apple stock

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Good use of the NHL’s latest buzzword, Process.

It is a process, regardless of how much you dislike the word.

 

[Rongomania]

I feel like Stromer would have a similar stat line as Pulju in Liiga....

This is what scares me....

 

[Leetch3]

the highlight of a Puljujaarvi trade will be all the people screaming that we are ruining him as the rangers try to turn him into a real player....

his scoring in finland means very little imo...we already knew he had offensive skill and a great shot, that was never a question... the question is can you fix the other areas to maximizes the value of his offensive skills.

 

[MetalJaws]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again here

The Rangers will not experience sustained
Meaningful success with Zbad as our #1 center. YES THE GUY HAS STARTED OFF PHENOMENAL THIS SEASON. BUT he is brittle
And injury prone especially with his concussion history

AND YES THIS IS A CONCUSSION

Last year Zibs 74pts made him a top 20 Center in the league. His 30 goals was also top 20 in centers and assists late 20's.

His 74pts was also the 2nd highest production from any player on the Rangers in the lat 10 years.

Kid is 26 with plenty of room to grow and elite level talent like Panarin and Kakko will likely boost his stats further.

Elite or Franchise Centers don't grow on trees. They're hard to draft and come along once in a blue moon.

A lot of the top centers in the league hardly make the Playoffs if at all. It's not easy man, cut em some slack he's the best we've had in a long time.

 

[MrAlmost]

Are you talking about the Rangers?

Eh, I was frustrated. And I had a couple of pops. I just cant seem to wrap my head around why it seems that players have a tough time performing in New York. We've had great teams recently, but the players brought in to push those teams over the top could never seem to find that extra gear. I guess I just don't understand it. Are the players we target just not good anymore, poor fit for the system, too old, perhaps a combination of those things? I'd like to see the team flex its financial might not just in the NHL, but with scouting, development, coaches, etc. Teams like Pittsburg, washington, Boston, etc seem to call up players from their farm and they immediately make an impact. Or at the least, fill the role they are assigned very well. I just wonder if the Rangers are gonna have that kind of strong system. Perhaps only time will tell.