Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV

[Edge]

we can agree to disagree on this.

topic aside, I think you’re one of the best here @Edge

Don't get me wrong, the whole conversation is comical at times.

Selfishly, I want a resolution on Andersson one way or the other. Because it's so polarizing on here.

 

[haveandare]

In a non-salary cap world, sure. In a salary cap world, you cannot have a $3m 4th liner. Yes, there is Smith, but the circumstances of how the Rangers got there are different. And you cannot possibly spend $7m on two 4th liners.

Agreed but my point is that it’s not as simple as saying Fast is a fourth liner. We could have said that of Fast any year but he inevitably ends up playing up and down the lineup over the course of the year because he’s capable of doing so and because lines mix up and injuries happen.

He’s been in the top six for stretches of good play by the team. That’s not a player that can be described just as a fourth liner. Haley is a fourth liner - you’ll never see him up in the lineup, and for good reason.

Fast isn’t a guy who fits that sort of label imo, and while you can’t have that type of player all throughout your lineup, it’s wise to hold on to one when you have him assuming the price is reasonable.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

One of the things that can often get lost is that the reason why players excel in supporting roles, especially when they're younger, is because the roles are exactly that --- SUPPORT.

Finding a RHD who is going to eat 24 minutes a night against the NHL's best is not an easy hole to fill.

One of the elements a guy like Trouba brings, that doesn't necessarily show up on a stat sheet, is that the other defensive pieces kind of fall-in around him. If one guy eating up tough minutes and "only" netting 40 points allows the guy who hits the ice right after him to clean up and score 60 points, then so be it. That's the essence of building a team. And there's nothing wrong with having specialists on the team who come into situations where they can enjoy a favorable match-up.

So again, could the Rangers go down this path? Sure. But I don't really see a reason to. I suspect they want to see if Chytil can grab the bull by the horns and solve their second line problem, and see if they can find some stability on the left side of the defense. I don't see them tinkering with what is shaping up to be a very talented, and maturing, right side.

There's no reason to do so now. The earliest it needs to even be considered is heading into the expansion draft.

(That said, you never know when it comes to a hockey trade.)

 

[Edge]

There's no reason to do so now. The earliest it needs to even be considered is heading into the expansion draft.

(That said, you never know when it comes to a hockey trade.)

And the truth is that something could come up at any time. We never know who is available and when.

I just don't think it's something the Rangers are actively pursuing.

When we look at names that will be batted around in the next few months, I think we're looking at Kreider, Strome, Fast and potentially Buchnevich.

I don't think a lot of the talks they had last year and this summer are completely done. For example, I know Colorado is still interested in Kreider. As is Boston.

And before anyone asks, no we aren't getting Newhook.

 

[Ola]

They traded their 1C 3 years ago with four years left on his deal.

A difference in this case is that everyone know that Trouba was VERY particular about where he wanted to play, and that he never would have signed that deal with us, knowing that we would trade him.

I am not saying that some of the same things couldn’t have been said about Stepan. But it’s just more in the spotlight with Trouba. It was more outspoken.

 

[Trxjw]

And the truth is that something could come up at any time. We never know who is available and when.

I just don't think it's something the Rangers are actively pursuing.

When we look at names that will be batted around in the next few months, I think we're looking at Kreider, Strome, Fast and potentially Buchnevich.

I don't think a lot of the talks they had last year and this summer are completely done. For example, I know Colorado is still interested in Kreider. As is Boston.

And before anyone asks, no we aren't getting Newhook.

What if we add Trouba to the deal though?

 

[gravey9]

After some time to mull it over, I would guess that Gorton is trying to get Pulju for picks and maybe a prospect that is years away. Our forward depth in the NHL and AHL is really thin. Trading one or more forwards for one forward might necessitate further moves. So, I would assume Gorton was willing to give up more in draft picks than in current pro forward depth.

 

[charliemurphy]

Don't get me wrong, the whole conversation is comical at times.

Selfishly, I want a resolution on Andersson one way or the other. Because it's so polarizing on here.

Agreed. I have to think Andersson is being given sheltered minutes because the roster hasn't shaken out yet. Crossing my fingers that Howden will be on the move in bigger trade for picks or adding some wing depth so Andersson moves up and fall into place as 3C.

 

[True Blue]

good analysis

This is analysis? More idiocy.
#ICannotConcotAGoodPostToSaveMyLife

 

[Edge]

Agreed. I have to think Andersson is being given sheltered minutes because the roster hasn't shaken out yet. Crossing my fingers that Howden will be on the move in bigger trade for picks or adding some wing depth so Andersson moves up and fall into place as 3C.

Ultimately, for me, the debate with Andersson is upside.

I think his trajectory to this point shows an NHL player (SHL, WJC, WC, AHL and NHL). So in that regard, I have little doubt he belongs in and will play in the NHL.

The question is what role will he play.

Personally, I never saw/projected a first line center. So that's not a factor in my consideration. I definitely think there's second line upside there. But in the end, if he's a third line center, that's not the end of the world for me either. What if he's Mike Ricci? I'm damn happy with that.

I can honestly say I am not really focused on lines or anything like that when it comes to our young players and prospects. I'm focusing on roles, and how those different roles fit together to make a competitive team.

If Andersson is a third line center who slots in behind Zibanejad and Chytil, I'm cool with that. If Fox is playing above his abilities on the third pair because he's behind Trouba and ADA, that's awesome. If Buchnevich is a skill player on the third line, and it works, so be it. If Kravtsov is a second line player behind Kakko and/or Panarin, that's great for us. Etc. Etc.

 

[True Blue]

Can't watch more than a few minutes and I was going in with an open mind....

So too did I, but then I realized at who posted it. The dude just posted a video he shot in his own basement.

 

[dapowl]

Agreed. I have to think Andersson is being given sheltered minutes because the roster hasn't shaken out yet. Crossing my fingers that Howden will be on the move in bigger trade for picks or adding some wing depth so Andersson moves up and fall into place as 3C.

Wouldn't say he is sheltered, at the beginning of the season had some of the highest def. zone starts, now he is somewhere in the middle

 

[charliemurphy]

Wouldn't say he is sheltered, at the beginning of the season hat some of the highest def. zone starts, now he is somewhere in the middle

View attachment 272943

It was more in reference to his 5v5 time over the past season in both the NHL and AHL... seeing him play with the likes of the Nieves and Haleys of the world for about 10 minutes a game doesn't do much to show what he's got. It was Zib that was moved to his wing for Sweden two seasons ago, lol. I just think the front office has plans for him and once the roster shakes out and some bodies move I think it will fall into place with him.

 

[dapowl]

It was more in reference to his 5v5 time over the past season in both the NHL and AHL... seeing him play with the likes of the Nieves and Haleys of the world for about 10 minutes a game doesn't do much to show what he's got. It was Zib that was moved to his wing for Sweden two seasons ago, lol. I just think the front office has plans for him and once the roster shakes out and some bodies move I think it will fall into place with him.

ah ok im with you

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers should not put Staal back into the lineup unless there’s an injury. The Rangers are a better team without him. The young guys are playing well and gaining valuable experience.

 

[Svenhart2008]

The Rangers should not put Staal back into the lineup unless there’s an injury. The Rangers are a better team without him. The young guys are playing well and gaining valuable experience.

Well, I mean number 7,8, and 9 are currently in Hartford so this is awkward....

 

[SA16]

Trouba is leading a defense that has 3 rookies currently on it, and on top of that, the other two guys are DeAngelo and Skjei. It's not like it's a veteran laden roster. DeAngelo only established himself last season and it wasn't the whole year. We know the rollercoaster that Skjei can be, so he's the only established defender we have that can be relied upon. The rest are prone to inconsistency.

There is a 0% chance they would be willing to move him right now.

There is reason to do so. It's literally now or never because of the NMC kicking in and we already know how tough he had been to negotiate with in the past. I'm sure they won't do it but it would really be a way to trade away from a strength to improve a weakness. We have many more RD prospects in the system than C prospects.

 

[wafflepadsave]

And the truth is that something could come up at any time. We never know who is available and when.

I just don't think it's something the Rangers are actively pursuing.

When we look at names that will be batted around in the next few months, I think we're looking at Kreider, Strome, Fast and potentially Buchnevich.

I don't think a lot of the talks they had last year and this summer are completely done. For example, I know Colorado is still interested in Kreider. As is Boston.

And before anyone asks, no we aren't getting Newhook.

Interested? Great but the offers must not be up to par. That said, what would a sufficient offer look like , in your opinion? Thanks, a first time caller.

 

[wafflepadsave]

The Rangers should not put Staal back into the lineup unless there’s an injury. The Rangers are a better team without him. The young guys are playing well and gaining valuable experience.

Which is what this season is mostly about.

 

[Edge]

There is reason to do so. It's literally now or never because of the NMC kicking in and we already know how tough he had been to negotiate with in the past. I'm sure they won't do it but it would really be a way to trade away from a strength to improve a weakness. We have many more RD prospects in the system than C prospects.

I'm not sure I see how this really works.

For starters, I think trading Trouba has a cascading effect on ADA and Fox, to say nothing about the defense not being stronger with whoever slide into that third pairing slot.

There's also the cascading impact this will have on the center position, because it would essentially decide Chytil's future at the position, to say nothing about Howden or Andersson.

At best, this seems like a move where we would rob Peter to pay Paul. At worst, it feels awfully hasty with a high probability of backfiring terribly.

 

[haveandare]

There is reason to do so. It's literally now or never because of the NMC kicking in and we already know how tough he had been to negotiate with in the past. I'm sure they won't do it but it would really be a way to trade away from a strength to improve a weakness. We have many more RD prospects in the system than C prospects.

We currently have 2 21 year old centers and a 20 year old center on the NHL team. They're not prospects technically, but the difference is negligible.

We finally have great depth at RD, which is one of the hardest positions to fill in the league. And both the guys behind Trouba haven't proven a whole hell of a lot over time yet. It's like saying let's trade Zibanejad now that Chytil is good. Fox has played 11 games.

 

[Procrastinator]

I'm not sure I see how this really works.

For starters, I think trading Trouba has a cascading effect on ADA and Fox, to say nothing about the defense not being stronger with whoever slide into that third pairing slot.

There's also the cascading impact this will have on the center position, because it would essentially decide Chytil's future at the position, to say nothing about Howden or Andersson.

At best, this seems like a move where we would rob Peter to pay Paul. At worst, it feels awfully hasty with a high probability of backfiring terribly.

Not even sure why its being spoken about. We just signed him to an 8 year deal to trade him? Some of these ideas and proposals are literally taken from fantasy hockey.

 

[Avery16]

To the best of my knowledge, and for those who cannot scroll up, there was no Trouba trade proposal. A poster suggested I proposed trading Trouba. I what the proposal was, and they were unable to reply.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

To the best of my knowledge, and for those who cannot scroll up, there was no Trouba trade proposal. A poster suggested I proposed trading Trouba. I what the proposal was, and they were unable to reply.

BUT WHY DO YOU WANT TO TRADE TROUBA AND SIMULTANEOUSLY HATE KITTENS?

edit: AND BABIES

 

[bobbop]

Wouldn't say he is sheltered, at the beginning of the season had some of the highest def. zone starts, now he is somewhere in the middle

View attachment 272943

When you look at the defensive zone starts, it's obvious that a) the coaching staff has a lot of confidence in Howden and b) ditto for Hajek.

I think that rise in Hajek's game is one of the very best things to be happening so far this year. Playing with Trouba sure doesn't hurt but it's very exciting to see the dependence on him in the defensive zone and his graduation to full time penalty killing. We've got something here!