Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XIV (To trade or not to trade is the question)

[dieselbaby]

I don't know what it is about this generation of sports fans thinking that it's sacrilege to trade players. Turnover is part of the deal when you invest your fandom, so this idea that everyone of your players is going to have a Jeter-esque run as a lifelong member of the team is braindead thinking.

I assume part of that is following the crowd on social media, but has critical thinking completely vanished? Isn't the goal to improve the team & win instead of idolizing a bunch of spoiled, entitled players who have seemingly checked out?

I often relate this kind of mentality to the same thing you see with people have these "parasocial relationships" with people they watch on YouTube, often livestreamers. When you look at it through this lens, it starts to make a lot more sense IMO.

 

[TGWL]

Panarin tries to avoid and and all type of physical contact.
He’s small and a giant puss when it comes to getting dirty or taking a hit to make a play.
Laf and Tro have no problem with that type of game and the offensive chops to play with skill like Panarin.. That’s why that line works.
Line is a PASS
I call it the 2/3 system.

While the others get to the dirty areas, Panarin does more for that line than they do for Panarin.

 

[haohmaru]

I'm glad Drury got ruthless with Trouba but his history suggests he doesn't really have a great plan.

They'll probably rent at the deadline again.

I think you’re disregarding what his boss says about all this. Drury doesn’t have free reign. He’s got a Dolan problem.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Ray Ferraro is absolutely destroying Mika on his podcast with Dreger today.

Didn't he just coin him the King of One Timers? Why can't we get this Ray on ESPN?

 

[Filip Chytil]

Larry Brooks and Sean Avery get started at 44:10.

Brooks: "I'm not getting into sourcing on anything obviously. But the information that I printed on July 1st about Jacob Trouba did not come from the NY Rangers. It was no benefit to them to have this out at all. And it was probably no benefit to Jacob Trouba. But that's the way this business works."

 

[CLW]

Didn't he just coin him the King of One Timers? Why can't we get this Ray on ESPN?

It wasn't Ray who said that tbf it was the main gibberish spouter.

 

[LokiDog]

I think they know that they have to work hard. They just can't do it consistently for a bunch of reasons having to do with confidence, structure/strategy/plan, conditioning, habits, etc. It's a culmination of different things.

I think they’ll tell you they have to work hard and claim they’re giving it their all and just trying to “work through it”.

They remind me of the guy in your office who SAYS/THINKS he works hard but doesn’t get the results. They’re the guy who thinks they work hard because they show up up at 8:55am and leave the office at 5:00pm sharp and then say “I never take a day off or leave early!” when passed over for promotion or bonuses, when the guy who got chosen over them has been coming in at 8:30 and leaving closer to 6pm all year.

I think they THINK they work hard, but some of them who have gotten by more on talent and physical gifts than genuine effort their whole lives don’t TRULY know what hard work means (relative to the level they’re at - I’m sure Zibanejad works harder than your average Joe, but he also definitely doesn’t work as hard a Crosby or Marchand or Chara or Pavelski or any of those guys who genuinely WORKED, not only to always be improving rather than resting on their laurels, but also to delay the decline from aging).

 

[McRanger92]

I don't know what it is about this generation of sports fans thinking that it's sacrilege to trade players. Turnover is part of the deal when you invest your fandom, so this idea that everyone of your players is going to have a Jeter-esque run as a lifelong member of the team is braindead thinking.

I assume part of that is following the crowd on social media, but has critical thinking completely vanished? Isn't the goal to improve the team & win instead of idolizing a bunch of spoiled, entitled players who have seemingly checked out?

The Rangers unceremoniously bought out Lundqvist. They have kicked the last 5 sitting captains to the curb over money. What makes Kreider special? The time to trade him is now given his age, contract status and team performance.

 

[grachevsceiling]

Guy wins one cup and he's the GOAT. Newsflash a team wins a cup every year.

But he says stuff like “2+2 = 3+1” so ppl think he’s the NHL Steve Jobs. As much as Drury annoys me, I think half the GMs in this league are hamstrung in some way by ownership. The people with basically no name recognition below them (scouts, etc) also have outsize impact on how they’re perceived.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Brooks: "I'm not getting into sourcing on anything obviously. But the information that I printed on July 1st about Jacob Trouba did not come from the NY Rangers. It was no benefit to them to have this out at all. And it was probably no benefit to Jacob Trouba. But that's the way this business works."

Most of us said It made no sense then for Drury to leak it & the same logic still applies. It HAD to come from his agent. He completely ass-f***ed Drury & the the team when his client kicked & screamed that he didn't want to leave. f*** him too.

 

[TGWL]

Brooks: "I'm not getting into sourcing on anything obviously. But the information that I printed on July 1st about Jacob Trouba did not come from the NY Rangers. It was no benefit to them to have this out at all. And it was probably no benefit to Jacob Trouba. But that's the way this business works."

Can we trade Brooks?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I would love to see people get their wish on the Rangers getting rid of Panarin and Fox. And then all you dummies asking for it will be really miserable when you see how dreadful the team is

 

[McRanger92]

I think they’ll tell you they have to work hard and claim they’re giving it their all and just trying to “work through it”. But they remind me of the guy in your office or unit in the military who SAYS/THINKS he works hard but doesn’t get the results and when you finally try to get to the bottom of it, it turns out the reason they fail their fitness test every quarter is because their version of working hard is a 10 minute light jog 4 days a week and the other guys in the unit are doing 90 minutes in the gym 5-6 days. They’re the guy who thinks they work hard because they show up up at 8:55am and leave the office at 5:00pm sharp and then say “I never take a day off or leave early!” when passed over for promotion or bonuses, when the guy who got chosen over them has been coming in at 8:30 and leaving closer to 6pm all year. I think they THINK they work hard, but some of them who have gotten by more on talent and physical gifts than genuine effort their whole lives don’t TRULY know what hard work means (relative to the level they’re at - I’m sure Zibanejad works harder than your average Joe, but he also definitely doesn’t work as hard a Crosby or Marchand or Chara or Pavelski or any of those guys who genuinely WORKED, not only to always be improving rather than resting on their laurels, but also to delay the decline from aging).

In the locker room on breakup day, Mika told the media he didnt think he got outplayed by barkov. These players are delusional to the fact they dont know the level of commitment it takes to win a Cup. Look at what happened when they went up against Cup winners in the playoffs in 22 & 24. They hung on by a thread to even escape with 2 wins before bowing out Meekly in 6.

 

[Machinehead]

I would love to see people get their wish on the Rangers getting rid of Panarin and Fox. And then all you dummies asking for it will be really miserable when you see how dreadful the team is

Especially Fox. The pipeline on defense is Travolta.gif.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Brooks: "I'm not getting into sourcing on anything obviously. But the information that I printed on July 1st about Jacob Trouba did not come from the NY Rangers. It was no benefit to them to have this out at all. And it was probably no benefit to Jacob Trouba. But that's the way this business works."

Yeah okay Larry

And I’m also the king of Sweden

 

[Filip Chytil]

Larry Brooks and Sean Avery get started at 44:10.

Brooks: "But I also don't think that they're actually looking to move Kreider the way they were looking to move Trouba. I think it's a little different. I think it's saying "Hey, he's not untouchable." And there just aren't that many players on the Rangers who are real assets when you look at their contracts. Now, does someone want to make an offer for Adam Fox that would blow them out of the water before his no move? I don't know. Is it sacrilege to talk about players? I don't think so. And I also think that somebody out there, and this is how our business works, is circulating a lot of stuff around the Rangers honestly."

 

[LokiDog]

In the locker room on breakup day, Mika told the media he didnt think he got outplayed by barkov. These players are delusional to the fact they dont know the level of commitment it takes to win a Cup. Look at what happened when they went up against Cup winners in the playoffs in 22 & 24. They hung on by a thread to even escape with 2 wins before bowing out Meekly in 6.

Yeah, this is basically what I mean. They probably think they work hard but we see who skips optional skates. We never hear about one of them having the trainers give them the keys to lockup because they want to skate later than everyone, like Jagr. Or on the ice after a game, after the whole team has gotten changed, shooting extra pucks for practice like Svechnikov was after the Canes beat us last time. They think they work hard but they have no idea how hard they actually have to work to win. And they don’t have it in them.

 

[Daves a mess]

to use an adult analogy, they refuse to engage in foreplay.

Welcome to the world of marriage.

 

[CLW]

Brooks: "But I also don't think that they're actually looking to move Kreider the way they were looking to move Trouba. I think it's a little different. I think it's saying "Hey, he's not untouchable." And there just aren't that many players on the Rangers who are real assets when you look at their contracts. Now, does someone want to make an offer for Adam Fox that would blow them out of the water before his no move? I don't know. Is it sacrilege to talk about players? I don't think so. And I also think that somebody out there, and this is how our business works, is circulating a lot of stuff around the Rangers honestly."

This is accurate. The talking heads need to feed the machine, in particular now that the league is so stale, boring and short on oxygen.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Especially Fox. The pipeline on defense is Travolta.gif.

The pipeline in general stinks. They have 1 high end prospect in the system. The rest ranges from decent to terrible

 

[Lion Hound]

Eh, is it? He was available for a song for what felt like forever and most of this board lost its shit when a TDA for Bennett swap was floated. The amount of people telling me he was a worthless 4C was just... Bleh.

Fl won the Bennett trade for sure. So did MN when they trade Kahkonen and a 5th for Middleton.

Haven't seen Drury win any of those trades yet. He swung and whiffed terribly with Buchnevich for Blais.

 

[Machinehead]

The pipeline in general stinks. They have 1 high end prospect in the system. The rest ranges from decent to terrible

And they're all wingers.

Drury's entire drafting philosophy has been "grab a winger who plays with an edge" and then you log into HF and people are like "I think we should sign a bunch more wingers who play with an edge."

 

[Daves a mess]

Yeah. Saying that it doesn't bother him is indifference at best, and it was his agent that added that he wants to be in Ottawa. Didn't come from Brady's mouth directly.

I'm tampering this harder than 1982 Tylenol.

While we are in 1982, Remember Toxic Shock Syndrome?

Mika?

 

[CLW]

Guy wins one cup and he's the GOAT. Newsflash a team wins a cup every year.

You can look down your nose at him all you want but Florida was basically Buffalo for decades and he personally lead them to the cup.

The point is simply that he came into a difficult situation and sorted things out. I.e. the exact opposite of what we see with the Rangers.

 

[LokiDog]

I would love to see people get their wish on the Rangers getting rid of Panarin and Fox. And then all you dummies asking for it will be really miserable when you see how dreadful the team is

I mean, not arguing one way or the other, but I think that, for the people who advocate for trading those two, the goal is to actually be dreadful, chase Mika and Chris out of town as well, and build a brand new roster rather than running it back again with maybe 2-3 changes total.

The feeling is that those two have value to bring back franchise changing returns - and yes, the cost of acquiring those franchise altering returns is to SUCK for a couple years. But I think the main idea is the roster needs to change so significantly that you almost may as well clean house entirely. Which is why people were also against re-signing Shesterkin, because he will prevent the team from EVER bottoming out.

Again, not advocating for or against but I believe that is the perspective. It’s not like anyone thinks getting rid of Panarin and Fox improves the team today, or results in anything but absolutely sucking. I think the idea is maybe this team needs to suck if we’re ever going to properly build a winner. We lucked into lottery picks we shouldn’t have even had and ended up with very mediocre results while rushing the rebuild process with Trouba and Panarin and the emergence of Fox and Shesterkin. Some people would like to see a true rebuild that isn’t cut short. I know it will never happen in NY, but I believe that’s preferred for many of us at this point over the constant combination of mediocrity and elite goaltending that we’ve had for 2 decades now.