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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

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Go Away Staal said:
Brooks had the rangers selling this deadline a full week before the letter went out. Carp, dreger and I think Friedman all had this as well re: zucc almost moved at the deadline.

It’s one thing to tell a player that he isn’t moving unless an overpayment is made, it’s another to see it actually happen. They may have said that just so he stopped pouting and actually played half decent instead of the dead carcass Esque play he put forth in the last month + leading up to the deadline.
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A bunch of people here had us selling at the deadline before that letter was sent. It's common sense. Brooks is the same guy who said Stepan was not going to be traded, literally hours before Stepan was traded. Brooks has no inside information anymore. He's just guessing and whenever his guess turns out to be correct, people point to Brooks having inside information. He's wrong more often than not
 
Go Away Staal said:
Well if the shoe fits...

But continue your mental gymnastics if it makes you feel better.
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Mental gymnastics? By that do you mean not posting personal opinions as facts and when questioned about said "facts" referring to name calling and belittling?
Ok, I have no problem sticking to that.
 
RangerBoy said:
The Rangers gave Brooks this story

https://nypost.com/2018/01/26/mcdonagh-nash-zuccarello-rangers-are-ready-to-blow-it-up/

The Rangers tell him general stuff. They don't tell which player is going where and for whom.

Someone gave him access to interview Dolan a few months ago.
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A common strategy in communications is so called test balloons, or just to kind of pave the way for things to come by creating talk about it before it happens. If you out of nowhere make a trade, the reactions are bigger.

Brooks must get fairly solid stuff from the Garden. He doesn’t speculate that much left and right, but it’s very usual that if we get a Eric Staal, Brooks mentioned Eric Staal a few month earlier. There are so many examples of this.

Gorton let’s Brooks know that if he is good to him he will be good to Brooks. Brooks says sure I can’t prmouse anything but let’s enjoy it while it lasts. ‘Gorts what can you give me? We will probably look hard at a veteran rental acquisition this deadline, a little size, we all know who is out there.’ Brooks mention Staal, Ladd and co several times and after a couple of months we trade for them.

That approach has zero downside for Gorton or Brooks. And it’s good for both. Just what I would do.

Or?
 
Hellion said:
Mental gymnastics? By that do you mean not posting personal opinions as facts and when questioned about said "facts" referring to name calling and belittling?
Ok, I have no problem sticking to that.
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I haven’t called you a single name and I’ve got my facts straight thank you. Can’t say as much for you.

The self projection is strong with this one.

Btw, take a look at the link that RB just posted. That sounds pretty definitive to me.
 
That Dolan interview was clearly done as messaging on the Knicks. They were looking for a coach at the time. I'm hip, I'm modern, I like analytics. I don't meddle. I wanna win. That was targeted messaging to coaching candidates. Thats it.
 
Go Away Staal said:
I haven’t called you a single name and I’ve got my facts straight thank you. Can’t say as much for you.

The self projection is strong with this one.

Btw, take a look at the link that RB just posted. That sounds pretty definitive to me.
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Lol you constantly call anyone not agreeing with you on the matter fanboys, zucc crew etc, it's been going on for ever, haha.
You should try not being a bully, takes away from the actual good parts of your posting. And there are actually quite a few of those.

That said, I have read the article, and I know very well he was/is avaliable for the right price. We all saw the letter the club released . And again, i have no problem with that.
That is not the same as being "heavily shopped" though. Just cause you keep writing it doesn't make it factual.

Anyways, what idiot GM would want to trade for this overrated, over the hill, declining, pouty player anyways?
I guess chances are he stays, haha
 
If they turn Zucc into an on the cusp of the NHL flawed prospect and a move up in the 2nd round of the draft would that be acceptable?

I see the debate thinks he could return #15, or #20 or whatever but at what point does it make more sense just to keep him and try to trade him as a rental next deadline?

I ask because I'm concerned they more or less get a Hagelin like return rather than what is being debated.
 
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Off Sides said:
If they turn Zucc into an on the cusp of the NHL flawed prospect and a move up in the 2nd round of the draft would that be acceptable?

I see the debate thinks he could return #15, or #20 or whatever but at what point does it make more sense just to keep him and try to trade him as a rental next deadline?

I ask because I'm concerned they more or less get a Hagelin like return rather than what is being debated.
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Depends on the prospect imo

I think Gorton would rather have an NHL ready ish guy, but if it's someone like Etem, I'd rather take my chance with a better draft pick
 
Off Sides said:
If they turn Zucc into an on the cusp of the NHL flawed prospect and a move up in the 2nd round of the draft would that be acceptable?

I see the debate thinks he could return #15, or #20 or whatever but at what point does it make more sense just to keep him and try to trade him as a rental next deadline?

I ask because I'm concerned they more or less get a Hagelin like return rather than what is being debated.
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I'd say the return is closer to Nash than it is to Hagelin.
 
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Off Sides said:
If they turn Zucc into an on the cusp of the NHL flawed prospect and a move up in the 2nd round of the draft would that be acceptable?

I see the debate thinks he could return #15, or #20 or whatever but at what point does it make more sense just to keep him and try to trade him as a rental next deadline?

I ask because I'm concerned they more or less get a Hagelin like return rather than what is being debated.
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Thing is ... I'm not sure where max value is for him ... TDL v Draft Day.
 
Not convinced Zucc is gone right away. I think Quinn is going to love the guy and keep him on as a mentor for a bit. Im sure teams will give offers on him, but im not convinced he will be moved before the season or at the draft. The TDL is another story. I could see him going for a 2019 1st to a contender.
 
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Edge said:
I'll still be shocked if Zucc is on the opening night roster.

I think it's simply a matter or timing and maximizing value. I don't think it's a reflection on Zucc himself.
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The problem is you only think about his trade value, but you completely forget about his team value. A player like Zucc is hard to find, the core in his leadership skills is that every player is supposed to have fun, but he can be very tough if a player doesn't show up. And that's the kind of leader the Rangers are looking for.

He will be a great role model and mentor for the younger guys. So don't be surprised if he's on the opening night roster, and with the C on his chest.

But if he stays and extends his contract, he will most certainly lose a lot of money. If he still decides to help the Rangers with this rebuild it deserves some respect, something he already has from his teammates, fans and the entire organization.
 
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Webster said:
The problem is you only think about his trade value, but you completely forget about his team value. A player like Zucc is hard to find, the core in his leadership skills is that every player is supposed to have fun, but he can be very tough if a player doesn't show up. And that's the kind of leader the Rangers are looking for.

He will be a great role model and mentor for the younger guys. So don't be surprised if he's on the opening night roster, and with the C on his chest.

But if he stays and extends his contract, he will most certainly lose a lot of money. If he still decides to help the Rangers with this rebuild it deserves some respect, something he already has from his teammates, fans and the entire organization.
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I get it and very much respect what Zucc brings to the table.

The question for the Rangers is whether those attributes are too valuable to trade for assets that have the potential to be hitting their prime when Zucc is out of the NHL or very close to end.

It's a balancing act and those same traits that we value in Zucc, also potentially generate interest from other teams.
 
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Webster said:
The problem is you only think about his trade value, but you completely forget about his team value. A player like Zucc is hard to find, the core in his leadership skills is that every player is supposed to have fun, but he can be very tough if a player doesn't show up. And that's the kind of leader the Rangers are looking for.

He will be a great role model and mentor for the younger guys. So don't be surprised if he's on the opening night roster, and with the C on his chest.

But if he stays and extends his contract, he will most certainly lose a lot of money. If he still decides to help the Rangers with this rebuild it deserves some respect, something he already has from his teammates, fans and the entire organization.
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What examples can you cite on him getting on a player who is dogging it?

Hank seems like the only one who has no problem calling out his teammates.
 
Lion Hound said:
Not convinced Zucc is gone right away. I think Quinn is going to love the guy and keep him on as a mentor for a bit. Im sure teams will give offers on him, but im not convinced he will be moved before the season or at the draft. The TDL is another story. I could see him going for a 2019 1st to a contender.
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Somewhat agree because I think he might be plan B or C for teams. My guess is 2019 picks
 
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Edge said:
I'd say the return is closer to Nash than it is to Hagelin.
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I'd think a possible late first maybe, however at the draft teams seem to try to hold onto those picks versus at a deadline where they are more available.


="Oscar Lindberg, post: 146386771, member: 262799"]Depends on the prospect imo think Gorton would rather have an NHL ready ish guy, but if it's someone like Etem, I'd rather take my chance with a better draft pick
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That is where I am at as well, I think any on the cusp NHLer who would be worth trading for (as in he is good) has more value to that team than Zucc would.

Which leads me to believe his value is going to be lower than what is being debated.

Personally if they can not get into the top 20-25 or so in the draft I'm not seeing the value to make it worthwhile.
 
Off Sides said:
I'd think a possible late first maybe, however at the draft teams seem to try to hold onto those picks versus at a deadline where they are more available.
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I still think the Rangers would prefer prospects to picks if they move Zucc, and if a pick was included in any deal, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it's a 2019.
 
Go Away Staal said:
What examples can you cite on him getting on a player who is dogging it?

Hank seems like the only one who has no problem calling out his teammates.
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A goalie is not a good leader during games because he can't communicate the same way with coaches and refs.

But perhaps you need glasses, because Zucc is always one of the most active on the bench and ice talking to teammates. He sometimes even confronted Hank after he allowed one of those softies.
 
Edge said:
I still think the Rangers would prefer prospects to picks if they move Zucc, and if a pick was included in any deal, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it's a 2019.
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I think the value of any good, on the cusp prospect outweighs the 1 remaining year of Zucc.

At best I think they may get a late 1st. Which they could use to draft their own likely flawed prospect who is a couple years out. However by doing that instead they'd be giving themselves time to work out the flaws.

I guess I am not really interested in seeing them try to turn around the next Etem, ADA, Duclair, etc as I think by that point in time the flaws that are making that prospect available are probably less likely to be worked out versus them just taking a risk that a teenager could change something in his game that has him ranked as a late first rounder.
 
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Webster said:
A goalie is not a good leader during games because he can't communicate the same way with coaches and refs.

But perhaps you need glasses, because Zucc is always one of the most active on the bench and ice talking to teammates. He sometimes even confronted Hank after he allowed one of those softies.
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Everyone talks to teammates. We might as well give Jim Ramsey the C. No one is suggesting that we give the C to Hank, even if he is the unofficial captain of the team.

Again, what proof do you have of him getting on teammates for putting forth a sub par effort? Talking to teammates on the bench is not proof of this and I've never seen him call out Hank once.
 
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