Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[Ruggs225]

Eh, I think if we are looking at the mold of Mackinnon and McDavid it's clearly a 'no' but in fairness, Panarin, Lafreniere and Kreider are what I would call good to elite 1st line wingers.

I have a much higher standard of elite

Panarin is Elite
Laf is on his way but still in the very good category
Kreider is squarely in the very good category.

Only 1 is an elite 1st line wingers.

Kreider has never been elite first line. Elite 2nd line i give u. But not close to elite 1st line.

An elite person has to drive the play. Kreider has never driven the play. He is a complimentary player. Always has been. Those are not elite. The only elite part of Kreiders game is tip ins, and straight line speed.

 

[NYR Viper]

I have a much higher standard of elite

Panarin is Elite
Laf is on his way but still in the very good category
Kreider is squarely in the very good category.

Only 1 is an elite 1st line wingers.

Kreider has never been elite first line. Elite 2nd line i give u. But not close to elite 1st line.

An elite person has to drive the play. Kreider has never driven the play. He is a complimentary player. Always has been. Those are not elite. The only elite part of Kreiders game is tip ins, and straight line speed.

His production is towards the top of the league. Whether he does it while looking pretty isn't really necessary

As I said, good to elite 1st line wingers.

 

[Ruggs225]

His production is towards the top of the league. Whether he does it while looking pretty isn't really necessary

As I said, good to elite 1st line wingers.

I though u said elite. Missed the good part.

I think if we go the build through the wing route we need a better and tougher dcore. We are super soft on the backend.

Its definitely harder to build without a top center. We have the makings of a shutdown line in our third line which will help immensely.

But zib is just killing us lately. Its hard if he isnt performing at at 1st line level and he just isnt.

Love trocheck, but i dont think he can be the best center on a cup team. Zib needs to step up.

Then we need to address top 4 d, particularly LD.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I have a much higher standard of elite

Panarin is Elite
Laf is on his way but still in the very good category
Kreider is squarely in the very good category.

Only 1 is an elite 1st line wingers.

Kreider has never been elite first line. Elite 2nd line i give u. But not close to elite 1st line.

An elite person has to drive the play. Kreider has never driven the play. He is a complimentary player. Always has been. Those are not elite. The only elite part of Kreiders game is tip ins, and straight line speed.

Hard to argue a guy who scored 50 goals who doesn’t drive play to any degree at an elite level.

 

[Ruggs225]

Hard to argue a guy who scored 50 goals who doesn’t drive play to any degree at an elite level.

One time in his career. Is zach hyman elite too?

There is a major difference between guys like panarin, pasta, kuch, kane, marchand, ovechkin etc. And kreider. If u cant see it, thats u.

 

[IDvsEGO]

One time in his career. Is zach hyman elite too?

There is a major difference between guys like panarin, pasta, kuch, kane, marchand, ovechkin etc. And kreider. If u cant see it, thats u.

I think your definition of driving play is very narrow.

 

[bernmeister]

I have a much higher standard of elite

Panarin is Elite
Laf is on his way but still in the very good category
Kreider is squarely in the very good category.

Only 1 is an elite 1st line wingers.

Kreider has never been elite first line. Elite 2nd line i give u. But not close to elite 1st line.

An elite person has to drive the play. Kreider has never driven the play. He is a complimentary player. Always has been. Those are not elite. The only elite part of Kreiders game is tip ins, and straight line speed.

disagree
he is def driver of play
he puck into the zone
he is not an optimal facilitator and except for tip ins on PP, is not a sniper->scorer
but he is def is driver of play

 

[Guyute]

Zegras has been a mess ever since the Ducks moved him to wing. Between the position change and his injuries last year, I'm sure his confidence is shot.

 

[Ruggs225]

I think your definition of driving play is very narrow.

Maybe it is, and it probably is more on a play making side, or can wow you with moves and create something out of nothing. Neither of which is his game.

But kreider has always gone through invisible stretches for most of his career where for games at a time u couldnt tell if he was on ice. Its less frequent now, but it still happens to often for my tastes to call him elite.

To me he is more complement than a person who drives the play and creates the offense. He does capitalize on what is presented to him especially around the goal.

To me elite is best of the best. And he at his best is still below that level. I go by the rule, if u have to think a guy is elite or make a case for him being elite, he isnt elite.

 

[TominNC]

Elite is when your team is about to blow a series and you go out there and record a hat trick to will you to the ECF. Even if it's not to your personal taste.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Elite is when your team is about to blow a series and you go out there and record a hat trick to will you to the ECF. Even if it's not to your personal taste.

The Elite Superstar Joel Kiviranta

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I said it in the PGT, I think the slightest change they should try without ruining chemistry is flipping Mika and Chytil. Cuylle and Kakko can do their board play without Mika getting in the way because we know Mika doesn’t battle there. And maybe they can find Mika for shots. Chytil can then help that line transition up the ice since Kreider sucks at that and resorts to dump and chase a lot.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I said it in the PGT, I think the slightest change they should try without ruining chemistry is flipping Mika and Chytil. Cuylle and Kakko can do their board play without Mika getting in the way because we know Mika doesn’t battle there. And maybe they can find Mika for shots. Chytil can then help that line transition up the ice since Kreider sucks at that and resorts to dump and chase a lot.

The obvious fear is the sum of the parts will be less this way.

 

[Ruggs225]

Hey at least we arent bitching about trouba anymore.

 

[bernmeister]

I said it in the PGT, I think the slightest change they should try without ruining chemistry is flipping Mika and Chytil. Cuylle and Kakko can do their board play without Mika getting in the way because we know Mika doesn’t battle there. And maybe they can find Mika for shots. Chytil can then help that line transition up the ice since Kreider sucks at that and resorts to dump and chase a lot.

you want to try this in practice and road test it in a game vs a weaker opponent, fine
BUT
it IS signif risk to ruin chemistry

At one pt in the game [not sure this is still current]. said {kid line} is 9 Gs scored and ZERO vs in 5x5
you futz with that and you may be effed

if it ain't broke...

while in theory a correct RW might help, I am inclined to go for a better C and slide zib to RW

ducks not moving Zegras sooner than later even tho they are deep at pivot

my hope is something around Byfield + Shesterkin

 

[RangersFan1994]

So what RW will be acquired at the deadline? I won't be shocked if the Rangers try to get Claude Giroux. He can actually produce in the playoffs

 

[Chytilmania]

Speaking of elite, Frank Gore was never elite, just had a good and long career. He’s not a HOF in my opinion. He never had any dominant seasons and was never considered a top 3 back in the league.

 

[Mike in Houston]

Mika needs to be dropped down the lineup. The problem is are you really going to swap him with Carrick? That would be the only 5v5 move. You can't mess around with the Trocheck and Chytil lines. And I don't think PL is actually going to scratch Zibanejad for a guy like Brodzinski who can play center. So unless his hand is forced then PL will just ride with 20-93-91 and hope they can figure it out. But make no mistake... Mika is dragging that line down. It hasn't been the rotating RW on that line. It's been Mika. At some point you can no longer use the "they have to find the right RW to play with the BFFs", especially when one of the BFFs is the one who isn't playing well.

 

[Machinehead]

Mika needs to be dropped down the lineup. The problem is are you really going to swap him with Carrick? That would be the only 5v5 move. You can't mess around with the Trocheck and Chytil lines. And I don't think PL is actually going to scratch Zibanejad for a guy like Brodzinski who can play center. So unless his hand is forced then PL will just ride with 20-93-91 and hope they can figure it out. But make no mistake... Mika is dragging that line down. It hasn't been the rotating RW on that line. It's been Mika. At some point you can no longer use the "they have to find the right RW to play with the BFFs", especially when one of the BFFs is the one who isn't playing well.

If that line is going to continue to be completely unplayable, we have to mess with something else.

 

[Ruggs225]

So what RW will be acquired at the deadline? I won't be shocked if the Rangers try to get Claude Giroux. He can actually produce in the playoffs

We dont need a RW. Who would he replace.

We need mika to be mika of old.

Also we need a top 4 dman.

Wings are the least of our concerns right now.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Mika needs to be dropped down the lineup. The problem is are you really going to swap him with Carrick? That would be the only 5v5 move. You can't mess around with the Trocheck and Chytil lines. And I don't think PL is actually going to scratch Zibanejad for a guy like Brodzinski who can play center. So unless his hand is forced then PL will just ride with 20-93-91 and hope they can figure it out. But make no mistake... Mika is dragging that line down. It hasn't been the rotating RW on that line. It's been Mika. At some point you can no longer use the "they have to find the right RW to play with the BFFs", especially when one of the BFFs is the one who isn't playing well.

As I said previously.
I don’t think cuylle is bringing anything to the line that Ck can’t bring.
Swapping Ck for cuylle lets PL move Mika to the third line and clear that he’s earned the demotion.

 

[Ruggs225]

when thinking about it. This was so predictable of an outcome.

We made zero significant changes last offseason. Did we really expect this team to be different from the last 3 years?

And no, trading trouba would have done anything. Not when kreider, zib, lindgren and miller are still here.

This old core needs to go. This offseason needs to be handing the keys to laff, kakko, chytil.

This is the most predictable outcome, and yet we all act aurprised and upset.

Time to old yeller the old core in the offseason. They just dont have it.

As I said previously.
I don’t think cuylle is bringing anything to the line that Ck can’t bring.
Swapping Ck for cuylle lets PL move Mika to the third line and clear that he’s earned the demotion.

He absolutely does. He brings physicallity, boardwork and hitting.

Kreider doesnt do any of that.

The team needs to stop catering to kreider and zib. Its not about getting them going. Its about replacing them with youth who bring more to the table 5v5.

Ride the kids. Give them more. Push them harder. See them grow. Let them lead!

 

[SA16]

when thinking about it. This was so predictable of an outcome.

We made zero significant changes last offseason. Did we really expect this team to be different from the last 3 years?

And no, trading trouba would have done anything. Not when kreider, zib, lindgren and miller are still here.

This old core needs to go. This offseason needs to be handing the keys to laff, kakko, chytil.

This is the most predictable outcome, and yet we all act aurprised and upset.

Time to old yeller the old core in the offseason. They just dont have it.


He absolutely does. He brings physicallity, boardwork and hitting.

Kreider doesnt do any of that.

The team needs to stop catering to kreider and zib. Its not about getting them going. Its about replacing them with youth who bring more to the table 5v5.

Ride the kids. Give them more. Push them harder. See them grow. Let them lead!

They are 6-2-1 with the best goal differential and second best points percentage in the eastern conference.

 

[Ruggs225]

They are 6-2-1 with the best goal differential and second best points percentage in the eastern conference.

Yes, and we were presidents trophy last year. Our last three game were all pretty ugly, and we are reverting back to what we were last year.

Good regular season team, who probably has not shot of cup.

We have the same shortfalls as the last three years. Because we are the same team.

 

[bernmeister]

So what RW will be acquired at the deadline? I won't be shocked if the Rangers try to get Claude Giroux. He can actually produce in the playoffs

None
we are not overpaying for rentals anymore