Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[bernmeister]

Good thing I have him on ignore

your right and your loss

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I'm a little peeved that everyone else is signing their goalies in the 8's and we're here hoping our guy signs for 11.5. And it's not the actual dollar I'm annoyed at, it's that Shesterkin, knowing where this teams stands cap wise, is willing to handicap us for competing against teams like Dallas, Boston, etc. I believe Igor is a top 2 or 3 goalie in the league, but I also don't think he can replace 4 million dollars worth of extra offense or defense, or maybe even more if you saved it for the deadline. Personally I think Garand is an nhl starter, maybe not now but in a year or two. How much better or worse are we in 2 years with Igor vs dylan? This year is the issue for now, I don't know where to go with this.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

At 8.25m, Shesterkin is around 1,400,000 more in taxes signing here than in Dallas, per year. Obviously, we don't know signing bonus, and then you'll have to figure out the breakdown on which teams they play, although Dallas is more favorable in that area consider they play multiple games against teams like Nashville, Seattle and Vegas. Add in a living and life style expenses and it's easy to see how much more a player would need to make in NY to match Dallas. With that I still stick with the thought process that it's just too much.

If you say Shesterkin is worth 9.5 in Dallas, than he needs to sign for way over 12.5 to make the difference. (That is obviously dependent on multiple things)

At the beginning of the offseason when posted that Igor might be asking for 11.5 I received pushback.
I then used two separate relocation calculators based on Hellebuyck current contract and it showed NYC to Dallas, Igor would earn 11.5 million and NYC to Winnipeg, Igor would earn 12.5 million.
Hope Igor’s agent doesn’t follow our threads.
If so, this is all on me.

 

[bhamill]

The other issue is I don't think these penalties are a new thing. Just looking at his AHL numbers he played 43 games last year and had PIM (not divisible by 5) in 16 of them. That's a ton of penalties. I'm excluding the ones divisible by 5 since those were likely fights. The year before that was 15/53.

So ~31 times causing his team to be shorthanded in 96 games. That is not good for a depth player who isn't going to play much or help you out on special teams. That's like the equivalent of an additional 5-6 goals against with an 80% PK. It's also a large increase over the alternative when you consider that Brodzinski has 42 PIM in his career and Vesey averages ~20/year.

Sure but Vesey and Brodzinski aren’t being dressed for their physicality. Different roles. I still think a shorthand situation every three games is not too often… especially considering role.
Whatever. It’s a subjective call. If the coaches think his risks outweigh his rewards then he won’t dress. If they think he brings more positives than negatives then he will. Pretty simple.
BTW how are you filtering out the minors where he took someone off with him? There a site with that info?

 

[Mac n Gs]

As much as I love Igor, I’d pull the 8x$11M from the table. He’s worth it, but we’re not in a position to give a completely market-resetting deal

 

[Shesterkybomb]

As much as I love Igor, I’d pull the 8x$11M from the table. He’s worth it, but we’re not in a position to give a completely market-resetting deal

The dumb thing is that it's not gonna reset the market. Who's next behind Igor who is gonna command that money after Ottenger, Ullmark and Swayman signed in the 8s? Imo we're the only ones who are gonna have a 11+ goalie for the foreseeable future.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Sure but Vesey and Brodzinski aren’t being dressed for their physicality. Different roles. I still think a shorthand situation every three games is not too often… especially considering role.

No no youre missing it, its "an additional shorthanded situation"
Which is an extra goal every 4 penalties.

So over the course of last season that would've changed us from a +53 to a +30ish (give or take)

+53 was top 10 in the league.
+30 would be wildcard playoff team.

 

[Jim Ramsay]

I love Igor but giving him more than 10 million is a big mistake. Ive seen Matt Murray, Corey Crawford x2, Antii Niemi, and Aden Hill win cups. You dont need elite goaltending to win it all and you definitely dont overpay for it

 

[TominNC]

So, tell me, which of the average goalies is going to get hot and win a cup this year? And which 3 are missing the playoffs?

 

[haohmaru]

Shesterkin at 12M is nearly the same take home pay as Oettinger at 8.25M.

This is just made up shit.

 

[Ruggs225]

What's the tax code like in Utah...?

Flat rate of 4.55%.

I like that. Flat tax, eveyone pays. Very easy to calculate.

Also, their tax rate went down from 4.65% last year. And acrually has fallen every year by a little since 2021. Good for them.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I'm a little peeved that everyone else is signing their goalies in the 8's and we're here hoping our guy signs for 11.5. And it's not the actual dollar I'm annoyed at, it's that Shesterkin, knowing where this teams stands cap wise, is willing to handicap us for competing against teams like Dallas, Boston, etc. I believe Igor is a top 2 or 3 goalie in the league, but I also don't think he can replace 4 million dollars worth of extra offense or defense, or maybe even more if you saved it for the deadline. Personally I think Garand is an nhl starter, maybe not now but in a year or two. How much better or worse are we in 2 years with Igor vs dylan? This year is the issue for now, I don't know where to go with this.

Igor is much better than those guys

 

[kovazub94]

I'm not an expert on American taxes, but even I know taxes don't work that way.

The "no state tax" teams have a slight benefit, but it's not the difference of 4M AAV

He probably thinks folks in Texas don’t even pay federal taxes, bastards.

 

[kovazub94]

The dumb thing is that it's not gonna reset the market. Who's next behind Igor who is gonna command that money after Ottenger, Ullmark and Swayman signed in the 8s? Imo we're the only ones who are gonna have a 11+ goalie for the foreseeable future.

This. Who’s a goalie who’s at this level and will be signing new contract within the next couple of years? I’d give Shesterkin $11+m per but seeing where all other goalies are coming at indicates that market is not over $11m

 

[savebyrichter94]

Trouba giving out free previews

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Maybe Igor bites if we throw in a Lada.

 

[TGWL]

No no youre missing it, its "an additional shorthanded situation"
Which is an extra goal every 4 penalties.

So over the course of last season that would've changed us from a +53 to a +30ish (give or take)

+53 was top 10 in the league.
+30 would be wildcard playoff team.

I'm sorry but I have not a clue what you're talking about anymore. Was this even this week? My brain is fried.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Maybe Igor bites if we throw in a Lada.

Pretty sure Jay Leno has one of those. Drury should give him a call and see what he wants for it?

 

[tlk]

Maybe Igor bites if we throw in a Lada.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

@Clark Kellogg

Rangers rank 7th in height, 8th in weight.

NHL Team Biometrics: Average Age, Height, and Weight | leftwinglock.com

NHL Team Biometrics: Average Age, Height, and Weight.

leftwinglock.com

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Igor is much better than those guys

He is better, and he should be and was offered to be paid way more than the difference in skill level. How much better is he? We've had Lundqvist and now Shesterkin and have not won one cup while teams with lesser goalies have. Don't get me wrong, I love having one of the best goalies in the league, but you need to win your cup when they are cheap and move on, adding salary takes from an already patchwork of a team, ie we never have a rw for zib and kreider, always trying to fill in the 4th line with hasbeens and ahl players, not to mention the constant rotation of crappy dmen we bring on board because of lack of cap. My biggest issue is that Igor knows how this is gonna play out, my guess is he wants a 4x12.5 deal so he can get an even bigger deal next without being stuck here when the cap crunch happens.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

@Clark Kellogg

Rangers rank 7th in height, 8th in weight.

NHL Team Biometrics: Average Age, Height, and Weight | leftwinglock.com

NHL Team Biometrics: Average Age, Height, and Weight.

leftwinglock.com

It's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog. Zib may as well be 5'6 160lbs, Miller as well.

 

[leetch99]

Edstrom has looked great on the 4th line. Which essentially means, solid defensive hockey, good forechecker, and potentially pinning the other team in the zone.
That’s it.
That’s all we ask from our 4th line. To not keep us pinned in our zone.
Rempe does 1 of those things positively. Hes a good forechecker, but he’s a risk for penalties in that situation. He doesn’t do well defensively yet. And so when the puck is in our end, they’re essentially 5v4.

Rempe could grow as a player. But even vesey is a major improvement over Rempe.

Rempe might be a long way from perfect but he does give us a bit of swagger and an element we have lacked for a long time . Those Dmen have no idea when he will let loose on one of them along the boards or in a scrum . Give the kid 50 + games and see where it goes . If we are a great team we will survive his mistakes .

 

[bernmeister]

It's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog. Zib may as well be 5'6 160lbs, Miller as well.

Yes, heart matters.
But when POs are in play and advancement to cup matters, it is extremely hard for heart to overcome ability
and ability =
1) can be developed w/hard work, training, etc
2) natural given comes w/territory = height, reach, etc

I am ready to consider Zib upgrade depending on who/how/total cost of entire deal.
KAM has his moments good and bad.
KAM would be more consistent w/Fs consistent and he playing w/regular partner

 

[kovazub94]

I think Panarin is trying to get Shesterkin to change his mind about $11m offer by showing who's the team's best player really is.