Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[SnowblindNYR]

I watched the Red Sox documentary on Netflix (sorry Yankees fans) and they were in a malaise all season but traded Nomar mid season for defense. Now I don't know much about baseball but I'm pretty sure Nomar was a much better player than Lindgren and more well liked in the city. No one revolted, they won the world series. Why are hockey players such delicate snowflakes where people always have to bring up the lockerroom as a consideration when demoting or trading a player? Maybe they're not and it's the mythology of intangibles in hockey that makes people view worse hockey better than better hockey as long as there's a perception of toughness and leadership on the team.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

I watched the Red Sox documentary on Netflix (sorry Yankees fans) and they were in a malaise all season but traded Nomar mid season for defense. Now I don't know much about baseball but I'm pretty sure Nomar was a much better player than Lindgren and more well liked in the city. No one revolted, they won the world series. Why are hockey players such delicate snowflakes where people always have to bring up the lockerroom as a consideration when demoting or trading a player? Maybe they're not and it's the mythology of intangibles in hockey that makes people view worse hockey better than better hockey as long as there's a perception of toughness and leadership on the team.

Because people genuinely believe guys like Lindgren are trying harder than the other players out there and in order to win the cup your players have to try harder than theirs

 

[Machinehead]

I watched the Red Sox documentary on Netflix (sorry Yankees fans) and they were in a malaise all season but traded Nomar mid season for defense. Now I don't know much about baseball but I'm pretty sure Nomar was a much better player than Lindgren and more well liked in the city. No one revolted, they won the world series. Why are hockey players such delicate snowflakes where people always have to bring up the lockerroom as a consideration when demoting or trading a player? Maybe they're not and it's the mythology of intangibles in hockey that makes people view worse hockey better than better hockey as long as there's a perception of toughness and leadership on the team.

They're not, that's just a coping mechanism for this team running the same shit back because they think it's working.

We'll look for any ulterior motive before we admit the team just isn't run very well.

Like, yeah, the toughness bullshit exists in hockey, but there's plenty of guys willing to maim themselves. Lindgren wouldn't be on the ice if they didn't think he was effective.

"Drury tried to trade all the bad people but couldn't" is copium.

 

[McRanger92]

I watched the Red Sox documentary on Netflix (sorry Yankees fans) and they were in a malaise all season but traded Nomar mid season for defense. Now I don't know much about baseball but I'm pretty sure Nomar was a much better player than Lindgren and more well liked in the city. No one revolted, they won the world series. Why are hockey players such delicate snowflakes where people always have to bring up the lockerroom as a consideration when demoting or trading a player? Maybe they're not and it's the mythology of intangibles in hockey that makes people view worse hockey better than better hockey as long as there's a perception of toughness and leadership on the team.

Florida overhauled their entire team coming off a President's trophy disappointment by swapping out homegrown guys like Hubie and Weegar for Tkachuk. The Rangers are crippled in fear of trading anyone off this roster. They shouldve told Trouba to kick rocks if he didnt want to be traded, he's been an active detriment in every playoffs he appeared in as a Ranger... Drury showed he is a weakling without the Cigar backing him. How much you want to bet he hung on to Lindgren so he wouldnt lose the locker room after trying and failing to trade Trouba.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

They're not, that's just a coping mechanism for this team running the same shit back because they think it's working.

We'll look for any ulterior motive before we admit the team just isn't run very well.

Like, yeah, the toughness bullshit exists in hockey, but there's plenty of guys willing to maim themselves. Lindgren wouldn't be on the ice if they didn't think he was effective.

"Drury tried to trade all the bad people but couldn't" is copium.

But they think he's effective because of hockey mythology. They think toughness is a sign of effectiveness. And they probably think that "I'd rather get a guy that's stuck in his zone but plays good defense in his zone than a guy that's in the other zone but plays bad defense in his own zone and might turn the puck over". Problem is that being stuck in their own zone is a sign to these people that he's good at defense in his own zone.

 

[zlev]

The whole league is 6'2". I think even with somebody like Kreider, it's overrated how big he is. He's an inch taller and 15 pounds heavier than Joe Anybody. You need to be built like Edstrom for size to be a real factor.

I absolutely think this roster is capable of forechecking and willing to do it if they got set up in the offensive zone more than like, once a period. They spend way too much time defending and the transition sucks, so on the occasions they send it the other way, the other team is already waiting for them. That's why we lean so much on the rush -- getting out of our own zone at all is disproportionately off of a mistake by the other team.

They put pressure on just fine before they went back to the clown show pairs.

Defensively, yes. This team is filled with forwards who don't play any defense, and in most cases, we knew that when we acquired them. That's another thing that isn't like, the main issue, but it'll come up deep into the playoffs. That includes Mika, who is a good penalty killer, but never bothered with defending at 5v5.

yeah i really dont see anything wrong with the forward group on this team. it's one of the best and deepest forward groups in the league. i'd rather have our forwards than say, Carolina. but Carolina has defensemen who can get the puck out of the zone and transition up the ice and it makes their whole forward group look like better players. they just had one glaring hole both times we played them in the playoffs (TDA).

 

[Machinehead]

But they think he's effective because of hockey mythology. They think toughness is a sign of effectiveness. And they probably think that "I'd rather get a guy that's stuck in his zone but plays good defense in his zone than a guy that's in the other zone but plays bad defense in his own zone and might turn the puck over". Problem is that being stuck in their own zone is a sign to these people that he's good at defense in his own zone.

It's more so the second part.

This cursed franchise thinks good defense is existing in the defensive zone.

Yes, the mythology exists, but nobody is playing a guy 19:28 a game because he's tough.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Florida overhauled their entire team coming off a President's trophy disappointment by swapping out homegrown guys like Hubie and Weegar for Tkachuk. The Rangers are crippled in fear of trading anyone off this roster. They shouldve told Trouba to kick rocks if he didnt want to be traded, he's been an active detriment in every playoffs he appeared in as a Ranger... Drury showed he is a weakling without the Cigar backing him. How much you want to bet he hung on to Lindgren so he wouldnt lose the locker room after trying and failing to trade Trouba.

And this is the problem, the mythology of the lockerroom being so important that losing a guy because he tries hard is going to implode the lockerroom. Apparently hockey players are the toughest physically but most fragile mentally.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

There’s a huge cascade effect on the forwards when even just one of the shitty D come out of the lineup. One week of Fox-Miller and people on here were considering the idea of Kakko being good. And what if they actually bothered to give Jones enough run to become Fox Jr

 

[MrAlmost]

There is a chance to get a Tkachuk. Long shot though. He is, again, playing great. Get Trent Frederic too. You don't just need guys that try hard. They need to be able to play too. Call up Berard. For now:

Panarin-Tro-Laf
Cuylle-Chytil-Kakko
Kreider-Z-Smith
Ed-Carrick-Berard

There was never a reason to break up the lines. We had 3 good lines. Let the other guys figure it out. Don't ruin all the lines cause 2 guys won't play hard.

 

[McRanger92]

There is a chance to get a Tkachuk. Long shot though. He is, again, playing great. Get Trent Frederic too. You don't just need guys that try hard. They need to be able to play too. Call up Berard. For now:

Panarin-Tro-Laf
Cuylle-Chytil-Kakko
Kreider-Z-Smith
Ed-Carrick-Berard

There was never a reason to break up the lines. We had 3 good lines. Let the other guys figure it out. Don't ruin all the lines cause 2 guys won't play hard.

We had to break up the lines because Mika & Kreider don't try outside of special teams. Truly crazy stuff. Both guys wear letters lol. Time to look inward.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Florida overhauled their entire team coming off a President's trophy disappointment by swapping out homegrown guys like Hubie and Weegar for Tkachuk. The Rangers are crippled in fear of trading anyone off this roster. They shouldve told Trouba to kick rocks if he didnt want to be traded, he's been an active detriment in every playoffs he appeared in as a Ranger... Drury showed he is a weakling without the Cigar backing him. How much you want to bet he hung on to Lindgren so he wouldnt lose the locker room after trying and failing to trade Trouba.

Thats absolutely part of the reason it happened.

And it's a joke. After it became clear that Trouba wasn't going anywhere, he should have dealt Lindgren. It should have been the top priority of the offseason but it wasn't even on the radar.

We've seen what this team looks like with out him out there, its much better.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

We had to break up the lines because Mika & Kreider don't try outside of special teams. Truly crazy stuff. Both guys wear letters lol. Time to look inward.

Literally. We neutered 2 effective lines bc Mika and Kreider suck.

 

[TominNC]

Literally. We neutered 2 effective lines bc Mika and Kreider suck.

But this is exactly what a large number of fans here were demanding. BREAK UP the twins, etc. So they did.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Genuinely interested to see what the rush/transition numbers look like pre and post Lindgren.

The defense sucked before he came back and has sucked even more since he came back. How bad has Lavi's WARRIOR itch completely nuked the one area where they were legitimately cooking their opponents?

 

[NYR Viper]

The Rangers aren't lacking for skill up front. Their issue is moving the puck. Outside of Fox and Jones, their defensemen don't effectively move the puck with pace out of the zone. that creates a cascade of negative events and leads to overall poor 5v5 results. The Panarin line is the exception because all (3) forwards excel at transporting the puck and based on just what I see, are out there more routinely with the one guy who is good at this, Fox.

 

[Guyute]

It would be nice if we could somehow replace Lindgren with Weegar. Don’t know we can make it work with the salary cap. I’m sure we have some players that would intrigue a rebuilding team like Calgary.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Can Krieder even jump out of a pool still?

 

[noncents]

I have said Lindy should not be on the first pair for a very long time going back well over a year (maybe 2). The problem is not saying Lindy should not be a 1st pair Dman. The problem is finding the best 3 pairs for a team with a flawed group of 6.

Beyond that I'm questioning if I should respond to your posts because they seem to imply the same things repeatedly.

Is your goal for me to say HF posters know more than NHL coaches? Or that you would do a better job than Lavi coaching the NY Rangers?

Coaches do not know everything. They are not fortune tellers. Coaches make mistakes. As a person who has coached multiple levels I made mistakes. Have you considered trying to get a NHL coaching position?

I am implying the same thing repeatedly, which is that you have not found fault with coaches despite clear evidence that they are - to paraphrase an earlier message - "deliberately playing players that make the team worse."

Laviolette is actively preventing this team from playing to its potential by deploying the D pairs.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I am implying the same thing repeatedly, which is that you have not found fault with coaches despite clear evidence that they are - to paraphrase an earlier message - "deliberately playing players that make the team worse."

Laviolette is actively preventing this team from playing to its potential by deploying the D pairs.

Yes Lavi like other long time coaches purposefully make their teams worse. They know that will lead losses. Then the losses lead to new jobs with huge contracts. You cracked the code lol

With all due respect may I ask why you do not prove your thoughts by becoming a coach? My old skate sharpener (and pretzel guy) became a NHL head coach for 2 teams. If he can do it why not you?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yes Lavi like other long time coaches purposefully make their teams worse. They know that will lead losses. Then the losses lead to new jobs with huge contracts. You cracked the code lol

With all due respect may I ask why you do not prove your thoughts by becoming a coach? My old skate sharpener (and pretzel guy) became a NHL head coach for 2 teams. If he can do it why not you?

The ole they're in the NHL so they must be right all of the time and you can't disagree since you're not a coach. Considering that at least some teams in the NHL will suck maybe appealing to authority 100% of the time is not the right way to go?

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Do we want them to be 4th liners? It's not ideal, but it was fine until we went back to the two top 4 defense pairs that are near bottom of the league.

Brodz 3rd line, Mika 4th line is probably what id roll

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

The ole they're in the NHL so they must be right all of the time and you can't disagree since you're not a coach. Considering that at least some teams in the NHL will suck maybe appealing to authority 100% of the time is not the right way to go?

Translation: “I don’t like want I’m reading but I don’t have an argument so I’m just going to put down all the people around me”

 

[NickyFotiu]

The ole they're in the NHL so they must be right all of the time and you can't disagree since you're not a coach. Considering that at least some teams in the NHL will suck maybe appealing to authority 100% of the time is not the right way to go?

Everyone (except a few HF posters) make mistakes. I made plenty of mistakes as a coach and as a ref. The difference is I can acknowledge my mistakes and admit I'm a neophyte compared to NHL coaches.

Coaches purposefully trying to play guys to lead to losses is a far reach from somebody making a mistake. The NHL is a zero sum league. For 1 team to win another has to lose. Yes OT losses are losses. Coaches do not expect to be perfect. No GM expects any coach to be mistake free. Scotty Bowman made mistakes.

Anyway you can have the last word. With all due respect I am done responding to you at least for the time being.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Everyone (except a few HF posters) make mistakes. I made plenty of mistakes as a coach and as a ref. The difference is I can acknowledge my mistakes and admit I'm a neophyte compared to NHL coaches.

Coaches purposefully trying to play guys to lead to losses is a far reach from somebody making a mistake. The NHL is a zero sum league. For 1 team to win another has to lose. Yes OT losses are losses. Coaches do not expect to be perfect. No GM expects any coach to be mistake free. Scotty Bowman made mistakes.

Anyway you can have the last word. With all due respect I am done responding to you at least for the time being.

First bold sentence: I don't think anyone is saying this. They're saying that due to his incompetence Laviolette is purposely playing a guy that he thinks is good to the detriment of the team. It's a blind spot not a grand conspiracy.

Second bold sentence: You got called out for an illogical take so instead of making it more logical or defending it properly you'll take your ball and go home.