Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XIII (Nanaki edition)

[Clark Kellogg]

 

[mas0764]

Kreider is one of if not the best contracts on this team and people want to ship him out to give kids that can't beat out players not even close to his talent level a chance. Great job in making this team worse. Ridiculous


Teams do not trade young 1Cs. Would you trade Perreault for a veteran in his 30s? Nope

Again, Kreider is not gonna be here forever.

The trick is finding the sweet spot between future value and what you are willing to live with missing. That time is coming.

Teams do trade very good young players, you just have to find the misevaluated ones.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Oh boy, powerplay discourse.

It's 25% for the season.

100 minutes 1 assist

 

[nsvoyageurs]

We’re so back

So much for letting Rempe develop in Hartford...

 

[Machinehead]

100 minutes 1 assist

That feels like moving the goalposts from "the powerplay stinks this year."

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Oh boy, powerplay discourse.

It's 25% for the season.

buoyed by that Detroit game

already dropped out of the top 10 . Its not very good.

They're also not drawing enough PPs which is another issue

 

[Bruner4329]

Again, Kreider is not gonna be here forever.

The trick is finding the sweet spot between future value and what you are willing to live with missing. That time is coming.

Teams do trade very good young players, you just have to find the misevaluated ones.

Of course he won't but posters on this board have been trying to trade him for the last 5 years and how stupid does that look. And that is what is so stale about these trade Kreider posts. One of these days someone will be right but so far they have looked pretty dumb.

 

[Machinehead]

Many times, in multiple sports, people in the know have remarked that games are only a fraction of what goes into lineup decisions. That's one of the reasons they practice.

That's not to say they're right. They've made decisions I don't agree with and will continue to do so.

What I'm saying, they should have a pretty good idea of where Laf is, in multiple situations. We don't need to ship Kreider out of the way for him to take on more of a role.

Everyone hates the Buchnevich trade. That happened because we just shipped Buchnevich out of the way, guessing blindly that he would be replaced.

Getting rid of Kreider means you have to replace close to 40 goals per 82 games. Lafreniere is already trending to score 35 or so. He's not gonna score 75.

 

[mas0764]

Of course he won't but posters on this board have been trying to trade him for the last 5 years and how stupid does that look. And that is what is so stale about these trade Kreider posts. One of these days someone will be right but so far they have looked pretty dumb.

Well given that the rumored return that people wanted him moved for was Jason Robertson and a first that would have been pretty swell.

No one is saying move him for peanuts but the assumption is it's probably reasonable he could be part of a package for an attractive piece and at some point what you are losing is far less than what you'll be gaining, when you consider the future (and yes, there is a future beyond this year that needs to have substantial weight placed on it).

That time would have been years ago if that Robertson deal was in fact real. The hypothetical here is "if you could package him with Zibanejad" and move him in a package for a young 1C type, that would also be attractive. Maybe not possible.... but not for sure impossible. The salary freed up is also a big gain.

Everyone is saying this is the last crack with this group anyway. We gonna retool and then expect Kreider to be the same player at age 37 for the next run?

Everyone hates the Buchnevich trade. That happened because we just shipped Buchnevich out of the way, guessing blindly that he would be replaced.

Well I think the real reason everyone hated the Buch trade was that it was both unnecessary, cap-wise, and nothing of substance was returned. And he was 25.

I get your point that it's a lot of production out the door in favor of the future but the situation isn't really the same if he's part of a deal with a substantial return.

 

[Machinehead]

buoyed by that Detroit game

already dropped out of the top 10 . Its not very good.

They're also not drawing enough PPs which is another issue

You clearly missed the "decline and take the loss of down" era of Rangers hockey.

 

[Ruggs225]

Getting rid of Kreider means you have to replace close to 40 goals per 82 games. Lafreniere is already trending to score 35 or so. He's not gonna score 75.

This just doesnt make sense. Why would Laf have to make up the full 40? Why would laff have to make up any of them.

But to use your example.


lets say kreider is traded. And laf takes his spot on the pp. if he pops 15-20 PP goals than he effectively replaced Kreider on the PP. The person who would take Kreiders spot in the top 6 would need to replace the other 15-20, not laff who already has top 6 time on a different line.

Im just confused how u came up with that math.

 

[Machinehead]

This just doesnt make sense. Why would Laf have to make up the full 40? Why would laff have to make up any of them.

But to use your example.


lets say kreider is traded. And laf takes his spot on the pp. if he pops 15-20 PP goals than he effectively replaced Kreider on the PP. The person who would take Kreiders spot in the top 6 would need to replace the other 15-20, not laff who already has top 6 time on a different line.

Im just confused how u came up with that math.

So you're penciling Laf in for mid-40's?

Eight guys in the NHL scored over 15 PP goals last year, I'm sure Laf will do it easily.

We've become so spoiled by Kreider's powerplay production that we think it's normal.

 

[Ruggs225]

So you're penciling Laf in for mid-40's?

Eight guys in the NHL scored over 15 PP goals last year, I'm sure Laf will do it easily.

We've become so spoiled by Kreider's powerplay production that we think it's normal.

Last year kreider had 18
Zib had 12
Panarin and trocheck both had 11

Its not out of the realm that laf could post 10+ considering every forward on the unit had over 10.

And in 22-23 kreider had a whopping 8 PP goals so outside 2 yeas he is closer to the 10 mark. Granted those were 2 of the last 3 years.

So say laf scores 10. That still not a big dropoff from where kreider is. Plus others might score more themselves if they arent shooting for deflections instead of just shooting to score.

Kreider is not gretzky or ovechkin. He can be replaced. And he will need to be replaced in the near future. He is 33 already, he is going to slow down. It happens to everyone.

Also why couldnt Laf score mid 40s? He is former 1st overall that has a ton of talent. He could definitely pop a 40 goal season.

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider has 111 powerplay goals.

Here are some Hall of Famers who don't: Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Bobby Clarke, Martin St. Louis, Jamie Benn, Rod Gilbert, Ted Linsday. As a matter of fact, Kreider probably ends up with more goals than Ted Lindsay in fewer games, and has a shot at Gilbert as well.

Nikita Kucherov will eventually go past 111 but I don't think he ever catches Kreider.

He's a better goal-scorer in NHL history than he gets credit for. Honestly, you probably don't replace it. So you hang onto it for as long as you can.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Why are we getting rid of Kreider. He’s on a great contract and still effective.

We just need to remove him and zib as the focal point of our team , which seems to be happening with the other 2 lines getting more 5v5 minutes lately.

 

[Leonardo87]

buoyed by that Detroit game

already dropped out of the top 10 . Its not very good.

They're also not drawing enough PPs which is another issue

 

[Machinehead]

Last year kreider had 18
Zib had 12
Panarin and trocheck both had 11

Its not out of the realm that laf could post 10+ considering every forward on the unit had over 10.

And in 22-23 kreider had a whopping 8 PP goals so outside 2 yeas he is closer to the 10 mark. Granted those were 2 of the last 3 years.

So say laf scores 10. That still not a big dropoff from where kreider is. Plus others might score more themselves if they arent shooting for deflections instead of just shooting to score.

Kreider is not gretzky or ovechkin. He can be replaced. And he will need to be replaced in the near future. He is 33 already, he is going to slow down. It happens to everyone.

You went from 15-20 down to 10 quicker than ZIbanejad turns the puck over.

 

[Ruggs225]

You went from 15-20 down to 10 quicker than ZIbanejad turns the puck over.

I looked at the stats. I still think he can pop 15. 20 is a reach i give u that. But i dont see why he couldnt once in a while. So 10-15 range is doable for laf.

And kreider only popped more than 10 3x in His career. So again its not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[NYR Viper]

View attachment 922873

IS THAT HIS NAME!!?? I was unaware

 

[Leonardo87]

IS THAT HIS NAME!!?? I was unaware

Yeah it's Buoy. lol.

 

[savebyrichter94]

View attachment 922873

 

[Ruggs225]

Kreider has 111 powerplay goals.

Here are some Hall of Famers who don't: Pavel Datsyuk, Henrik Zetterberg, Bobby Clarke, Martin St. Louis, Jamie Benn, Rod Gilbert, Ted Linsday. As a matter of fact, Kreider probably ends up with more goals than Ted Lindsay in fewer games, and has a shot at Gilbert as well.

Nikita Kucherov will eventually go past 111 but I don't think he ever catches Kreider.

He's a better goal-scorer in NHL history than he gets credit for. Honestly, you probably don't replace it. So you hang onto it for as long as you can.

I mean mika zibenajad has more Pp goals than kreider yet everyone wants to run him off too.

So does luminaries such as Ryan smith and claude lemiuex.

Like i said. Others have done it. He is replaceable.

They really need to see what laff and Kakko can do with a real shot. This offseason is going to be monumentally important. This regular season is a walkthrough for playoffs. Try nee things now. If they dont work, go back to what did work and then u also know where h stand in offseason.

I still believe Kakko can be a really good player. I will be absolutely pissed if we have to let him go go we keep an aging Kreider. Which is a real possibility.

 

[TGWL]

its not working.

It used to work.

Zibanejad used to be good.

Kreider scored like 27 ppgs 3 years ago.

PP has been ass the year.

It was ass in the playoffs.

Zib and Kreider line was good like 4 years ago.

Its tough to have a coach that is so resistant to change.

in 2024-25 we are purposely handicapping ourselves because of what used to work, and team politics.

We've had 24 opportunities on the powerplay and scored 6 goals. 1 more goal puts us in the 30% range, which would have been 1st in the league over last season. Other teams have come out and scored at a higher rate on the powerplay so it makes our 25% look even worse when Zibanejad is turning it over. Rangers are rank around 20 something when it comes to drawing penalties.

It's too much of a sample size for the coach to make a big change right now when it comes to removing Zibanejad from the powerplay.

 

[Machinehead]

I mean mika zibenajad has more Pp goals than kreider yet everyone wants to run him off too.

So does luminaries such as Ryan smith and claude lemiuex.

Like i said. Others have done it. He is replaceable.

They really need to see what laff and Kakko can do with a real shot. This offseason is going to be monumentally important. This regular season is a walkthrough for playoffs. Try nee things now. If they dont work, go back to what did work and then u also know where h stand in offseason.

I still believe Kakko can be a really good player. I will be absolutely pissed if we have to let him go go we keep an aging Kreider. Which is a real possibility.

Zibanejad's stats are buoyed by the one year he scored at a pace close to 70 (@Leonardo87 that's right, buoyed!). He's not the goal-scorer Kreider is.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

Zibanejad's stats are buoyed by the one year he scored at a pace close to 70 (@Leonardo87 that's right, buoyed!). He's not the goal-scorer Kreider is.

I know you like the advanced stats and such. Do you know how to get Zibanejad's WAR% year over year in those player cards or something similar?

I am curious about his rise and fall over the years