Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIII: Have no fear, the TDL is near (Mod Post page 233, #5809 - READ IT)

[nyr__1994]

I get that. Problem is, the Canes have a lot of holes and this doesn't do much to fill them for more than a very short window, and doesn't do anything to fill the biggest hole (center). Defense isn't a need, so while clearly McDonagh is superior to Hanifin right now, he's only signed for next year and is more of a luxury than a need. Nash is a pure rental, and the Canes aren't good enough to be paying for rentals right now.

The Canes are very high on Necas, who has done nothing but increase his stock since being drafted and is the ONLY prospect they have that might, someday be a 1C / high 2C. New owner or not, I can't see the Canes mortgaging that much of the future at this point in time, particularly when it's a stop gap return, doesn't fill their biggest need, and actually takes away a guy that could fill their biggest need.

Counterpoints (and this hinges on a new owner trying to energize the fanbase. He is trying different things like closing the upper deck for games):

Hank gives you three years to find a replacement, maybe he isn't the same goalie the last year of his contract, but you get 2.5 years of top 5-10 goaltending, which is way better than the team has got the past 3-4 years.
Nash helps you get in the playoffs this year
McDonagh helps you get in the playoffs this year and next, and you have an entire season to sell him on the Triangle.

Or maybe Hank, Zibanejad and Miller since your needs are up front and not on the back end.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Most TBL fans seem to be in love with Howden for some reason.

I think that says a lot about Howden. After all, TB fans watch him more than our fanbase.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Take it somewhere else

Nah I’m good fam.

 

[Glennsoe]

Wonder if Kreider has to retire due to the blood cloth, could it be what the letter meant by respected and loved?

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I think that says a lot about Howden. After all, TB fans watch him more than our fanbase.

I'm a numbers guy, i trust the numbers I've also seen all 3 guys and i really do think Howden, Raddysh and Katchouk are pretty much interchangeable, the only big difference is that Howden is a C which really doesn't matter much to us since we're deeper at C then wing in our prospect pool anyways...

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Wonder if Kreider has to retire due to the blood cloth, could it be what the letter meant by respected and loved?

I think it means McDonagh and Nash are gone. Hopefully nothing to do with Kreider's health.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Wonder if Kreider has to retire due to the blood cloth, could it be what the letter meant by respected and loved?

Seeing as how he's skating now, that is unlikely.

This clearly means that they're moving players who the fans love. Be that Nash, McD, Zucc and/or others.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Seeing as how he's skating now, that is unlikely.

This clearly means that they're moving players who the fans love. Be that Nash, McD, Zucc and/or others.

That letter had me thinking either McD or Zucc.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I think you are underestimating what Duclair's value was back then, but well just have to agree to disagree there since we can't go back in time.

Either way your suggested value was only different from mine by making the 2nd first rounder in the proposal conditional.

No it wasn’t, because of the reasons I posted.

Foote>Duclair
Howden>Duclair
Foote>Moore
Howden>Moore
Foote+Howden+two 1sts >>>> Duclair, Moore, 1st+2nd

Duclairs value then was not as high as Foote + Howdens. Imo of course.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Counterpoints (and this hinges on a new owner trying to energize the fanbase. He is trying different things like closing the upper deck for games):

Hank gives you three years to find a replacement, maybe he isn't the same goalie the last year of his contract, but you get 2.5 years of top 5-10 goaltending, which is way better than the team has got the past 3-4 years.
Nash helps you get in the playoffs this year
McDonagh helps you get in the playoffs this year and next, and you have an entire season to sell him on the Triangle.

Or maybe Hank, Zibanejad and Miller since your needs are up front and not on the back end.

I think you are putting too much stock in: a) a new owner wanting to completely mortgaging the future to try to squeak into the playoffs and b) the impact these guys will have when the Canes still have the worst center depth in the NHL and a lot of holes. Canes don't need to "squeak" into the playoffs. As Francis said, they need to build a team that will consistently be a contender.

I don't think the Canes trade Necas unless an elite young talent is coming back (which is what the Canes think he is) and I don't think the Canes trade Hanifin, unless a high level young Center is coming back. Maybe not 1 for 1, but as the main part of the deal. I don't see that as an option for the NYR. And I certainly don't see the Canes trading back to back 1st round picks. I know you want to make this work from the NYR's side, and that's fine, but I don't think it makes sense at all from a Canes POV. We'll just agree to disagree on it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

That letter had me thinking either McD or Zucc.

If they're not both gone by the 26th, they will be by the draft.

I took the letter to mean that there is even more on the horizon beyond the UFA's and those 2. Kreider, Miller, Hayes, etc. Someone from that group is going to end up being moved too (money is on Miller.)

 

[Nopuckluck]

Wonder if Kreider has to retire due to the blood cloth, could it be what the letter meant by respected and loved?

No way. He’s already back around the team and skating

 

[GAGLine]

I think that says a lot about Howden. After all, TB fans watch him more than our fanbase.

Or, more likely, most of them haven't watched him play and perceive him to be a more valuable player than Raddish or Coatcheck based on draft position.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Just watched that whole Gorton press conference, heard the line about taking advantage of other teams cap problems: Zucc @ 50% + small add for Saad

Who says no?

 

[Fireonk]

Foote, Howden, a 1st, and a conditional pick if TB wins the Cup and/or re-signs McD.

There were fewer trade options in 2015 than 2018, so that will hurt a bit. Green. OEL. McD. Possibly Karlsson.

Edit: I think both Howden+Foote have more value than Duke.

No it wasn’t, because of the reasons I posted.

Foote>Duclair
Howden>Duclair
Foote>Moore
Howden>Moore
Foote+Howden+two 1sts >>>> Duclair, Moore, 1st+2nd

Duclairs value then was not as high as Foote + Howdens. Imo of course.

I'm comparing the original deal I suggested which you called awful to your own deal suggested. Literally the only difference in value is making the 2nd first rounder conditional.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

No it wasn’t, because of the reasons I posted.

Foote>Duclair
Howden>Duclair
Foote>Moore
Howden>Moore
Foote+Howden+two 1sts >>>> Duclair, Moore, 1st+2nd

Duclairs value then was not as high as Foote + Howdens. Imo of course.

Duclair had spent time in the NHL as a 19 year old and was relatively productive the year he got traded and was coming off of a pretty good showing at the WJC's in a gold medal winning effort.

Saying that Foote or Howden both have more value than he did is a bit of a stretch. I'd venture to say that Duke easily had more value than both of those guys.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

They sell out every game and show up in large numbers to away games, what’s more supportive than that?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Or, more likely, most of them haven't watched him play and perceive him to be a more valuable player than Raddish or Coatcheck based on draft position.

Why would you say that is a more likely scenario?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Just watched that whole Gorton press conference, heard the line about taking advantage of other teams cap problems: Zucc @ 50% + small add for Saad

Who says no?

We do.

Young roster players, prospects or picks.

Not expensive vets.

 

[nyr__1994]

I think you are putting too much stock in: a) a new owner wanting to completely mortgaging the future to try to squeak into the playoffs and b) the impact these guys will have when the Canes still have the worst center depth in the NHL and a lot of holes. Canes don't need to "squeak" into the playoffs. As Francis said, they need to build a team that will consistently be a contender.

I don't think the Canes trade Necas unless an elite young talent is coming back (which is what the Canes think he is) and I don't think the Canes trade Hanifin, unless a high level young Center is coming back. Maybe not 1 for 1, but as the main part of the deal. I don't see that as an option for the NYR. And I certainly don't see the Canes trading back to back 1st round picks. I know you want to make this work from the NYR's side, and that's fine, but I don't think it makes sense at all from a Canes POV. We'll just agree to disagree on it.

Understood and thanks for the thoughtful responses instead of just saying GTFO....

BTW I will be moving to the Triangle in May so I will have a rooting interest in the team going forward, just will still be second fiddle to the NYR.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Duclair had spent time in the NHL as a 19 year old and was relatively productive the year he got traded and was coming off of a pretty good showing at the WJC's in a gold medal winning effort.

Saying that Foote or Howden both have more value than he did is a bit of a stretch. I'd venture to say that Duke easily had more value than both of those guys.

Duclair was a third round pick with who had voids in his game and concerns about his character.

Howden on the other hand is talented, has the right attitude, and had produced everywhere he’s played. He’s also a center.

Foote is a two way RHD with pedigree who many felt could have been a top-10 pick.

I completely disagree that Dukes value then was as high as Howdens or Footes, despite having limited success in his 15 or 20 games as a Ranger.

 

[BringBackLibertys]

BTW I will be moving to the Triangle in May so I will have a rooting interest in the team going forward, just will still be second fiddle to the NYR.

You wont be the only one, wait until you see PNC on a Ranger game night, it's good and fun. The local Canes fans (who are my second team now) are great about letting us show our support for the Rangers.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I'm comparing the original deal I suggested which you called awful to your own deal suggested. Literally the only difference in value is making the 2nd first rounder conditional.

Meh. You have a good point. My apologies.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

I hope our front office doesn't target the usual player they've coveted recently.

Questionable attitude
Questionable hockey sense
Questionable work ethic

Boat load of talent

Let's try not going this route for a change.

 

[nyr__1994]

You wont be the only one, wait until you see PNC on a Ranger game night, it's good and fun. The local Canes fans (who are my second team now) are great about letting us show our support for the Rangers.

I have been there for several, and already have my tickets for the game on the 31st. I will get to say Hi to Hank, Mika and JT wearing Red.... Ha Ha