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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XI

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I love how everyone wants to bury Fast on the 4th line when he has 4 points in 5 games and leads the team in production.
 
True Blue said:
It is not sustainable to make changes when things are clearly not working and your top players are not performing?

You have a bad team with a poor defense. Your top veteran forwards are playing at poor levels. Your youngsters will be inconsistent at a first. As is the way with all youngsters. What exactly is he supposed to do? Leave alone what is clearly not working? No, you make changes. Like he did when he adjusted and changed the on ice approach to a 1-2-2 zone. The play of the veteran forwards has largely been putrid. So he is trying to put them into a position of success.

What players have been scratched that did not deserve to be? ADA's play has not been so terrific that you are going to tell me that he grabbed his spot and held on with both hands. Names? Please. Coaching is ALL he has been doing. You can hear it in his communication. You can see it in his approach. He directs pretty clearly what he wants.
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We knew things were not going to work. We are comparatively very bad to the rest of the league. If the solution to that is making chaotic changes just to look like you are doing something, I think thats dumb. I think the coaching staff should've had an idea where the team is, and shouldn't be making big changes just because they got the expected results, even if they aren't the results they'd like.

I contend that Shattenkirk, Buchnevich, DeAngelo, Pionk and Namestnikov all should've not been scratched, nor should we have new lines every game for the sake of it. I could maybe understand one or two scratches or changing the lines after a couple of bad games. If you think a player is giving no effort or has a terrible attitude, send a message with a scratch or changing their place in the lineup. Five players being scratched in five games? One consistent line or pair through five of a long 82 game season? Seems like the point here is to just make chaotic changes for the sake of it. Besides, if you are scratching everyone to "make changes" or changing every line every game, will what you are trying to do have any effect? How do you successfully use that as a "message" to players? Quinn is coaching like this is college hockey. Its a long season. This is not a 25 game season. He needs to relax. Let players find their form.

As I mentioned, he should be coaching players. Alienating multiple key players as a rookie head coach five games into a season and putting an objectively worse than possible team on the ice every game five games with constantly changing lines to the point that players develop no rhythm is not smart a smart strategy. If players aren't playing well, coach them up. Figure out why, and try to get them to play better. I don't really understand how any of this works. Its pure chaos.
 
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Kreider - Zib - Buch
Chytil - Howden - Zucc
Hayes - Anderson - Names
Vesey - Boo - Fast

Why you ask?

1st line - our best skill, speed and size line. Def. most chemistry. let them figure it out and go through the ups an downs.
2nd line - Give Chytil a long look at wing. He will likely end up there, especially if we draft a nasty Center next year :) Also, gives Chytil some skill to play with. Howden looks good.
3rd line - LA might be the guy to respond in a big way. Doesn't have to happen now, but it would be cool to see him come up and stay up. Hayes is the pro. figure out wing.He's gone in Feb. anyway. LA is the future C. Let him make mistakes. He seems to adjust well, sending him down might have been motivational. Let's see how it motivated him.
4th line - Well, all of these guys are 4th liners! No one here plays PP, no one here gets more than 11 min. a night. Because.....they're 4th liners. 4th line players playing 4th line minutes. Fourth line duties for these guys. Cuatro, quatre, quattro, fyra, chetyre, vier, fire, line guys.

Skjei - ADA
Smith - Shatty
Staal- McQuaid
Pionk

1st pair - ADA time to shine. See how he fairs at the pace.
2nd pair - Show you still got it pairing.
3rd pair - Anyone who plays with Staal is in trouble. McQuaid is a place holder to us anyway. Don't put Staal with a kid!

See how the kids react to the ice time. Coach them into these roles and see how it goes. Flip LA with BH only and let them grow. This isn't a winning season. If someone super under performs send them down and replace that position accordingly. Let it ride!
 
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DanielBrassard said:
They probably do, but there was a rumor Ola posted that Nylsnder might be traded here for whatever it's worth, and it doesn't seem like any way a trade happens without Skjei IMO.
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Rangers have nothing in the pipeline that resembles anything close to Nylander...

Skjei is a top 4 defender, at best... I don't ever see him being better than a #3.

I do this trade every day
 
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RoarLionRoar said:
I won't deny that there were moments of brilliance; he's certainly talented. I wouldn't challenge that. But what can I say? I would love for him to be a first line player; nothing would make me happier than to have a 40-goal scorer on this team. But I don't think he's that guy. I realize I'm not a pro scout or coach, and I don't pretend to have the abilities of one, but that's just my gut feeling. :)
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You are entitled to think whatever you'd like, but that doesn't mean if you say something that is disagreeable, everyone will agree. If I say Smith is a 2D, I'd expect people to disagree. If I say Hayes is a 4C, I'd expect people to disagree. As I have said before, statistically speaking Buchnevich grades out as a good second line/bad first line player in his second season. I understand a lot of the fanbase dislikes him because a lot of the fanbase likes him, but if we are to actually discuss the merits of the argument, there's not a good case other than "because I said so" that he doesn't grade out as a good second line/bad first line player after his second season.
 
TheTakedown said:
Rangers have nothing in the pipeline that resembles anything close to Nylander...

Skjei is a top 4 defender, at best... I don't ever see him being better than a #3.

I do this trade every day
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I'm not trying to be a jerk, but why is Nylander better than Andersson or Chytil? Both of their D+1 season looks pretty similar to Nylander
 
haveandare said:
If you took all the speculation out of this there wouldn't be much left at all. Quinn messing with personnel less than dozen games into his entire career let alone with this team is bad for the team? Quinn has no control of the locker room? This or that player doesn't get scratched because he's afraid?

You can have legitimate complaints without peppering in all the speculation. I agree him moving Buch to the left is stupid, but I also think Buch looked sort of reenergized in preseason and now disappears a bit. It's not that he's not productive or not good, it's that there's a ton to indicate that he can be even more productive and a lot better, same with Kreider and Zbad.
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Quinn's thought process here makes no sense. Even AV didn't do this kind of stuff. Quinn is literally scratching players based off one bad game. Started with Shattenkirk. Bad game. Immediate scratch. To me, I think proven players in the league really need to build up a long basis of bad games to deserve a scratch. Otherwise, it comes off as disrespectful. That started it off. Staal has been bad for three or four years. He still gets the benefit of the doubt because of what he accomplished earlier in his career. Then to Pionk. Bad game. Immediate scratch. Sits two games. Maybe more.

Now DeAngelo. Bad game after he was already sitting for two games. He's played well literally every other game during the preseason and regular season. Scratch. Then to Buchnevich. Best player on the team during preseason, second on the team in points so far this season. Had a bad two periods. Scratch. Hasn't built up the resume that Shattenkirk has, but he's unquestionably proven himself to be one of the best players on the team and you are scratching him because of one bad game.

I wonder who is next. What does any of this accomplish? Shaming your key players is good for team morale? Rebuilding teams should be sitting their key young players to play objectively worse hockey players at the end of their hockey careers? And its rubbish that any of this holds anyone accountable. Don't even get me started on the constant line and pairing changes. Players can't get into any rhythm when every shift they are on the ice with a new group of players. The game against Carolina was one of the most outrageous things I've seen watching hockey. If anyone wonders why we gave up eight goals that game, it might be that the players didn't have a clue who was on the ice next to them during any given shift.

Here's the thing. I am very willing to give the new coach a fair deal, but we are a bad team with a coach who through preseason and a couple regular season games has made many questionable decisions with lineups, personnel and in game coaching. I don't think Quinn has done a good job so far. Are we not allowed to question him? The new guy is allowed free reign with no questioning? There is no guarantee Quinn will be a good head coach. I wouldn't say he's failed yet or anything like that, but whether its AV or Quinn, there should be no difference in fan perception towards when they can or cannot criticize a coach. If AV had this start to the season, he'd be getting absolutely destroyed by the fan base.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Quinn's thought process here makes no sense. Even AV didn't do this kind of stuff. Quinn is literally scratching players based off one bad game. Started with Shattenkirk. Bad game. Immediate scratch. To me, I think proven players in the league really need to build up a long basis of bad games to deserve a scratch. Otherwise, it comes off as disrespectful. That started it off. Staal has been bad for three or four years. He still gets the benefit of the doubt because of what he accomplished earlier in his career. Then to Pionk. Bad game. Immediate scratch. Sits two games. Maybe more.

Now DeAngelo. Bad game after he was already sitting for two games. He's played well literally every other game during the preseason and regular season. Scratch. Then to Buchnevich. Best player on the team during preseason, second on the team in points so far this season. Had a bad two periods. Scratch. Hasn't built up the resume that Shattenkirk has, but he's unquestionably proven himself to be one of the best players on the team and you are scratching him because of one bad game.

I wonder who is next. What does any of this accomplish? Shaming your key players is good for team morale? Rebuilding teams should be sitting their key young players to play objectively worse hockey players at the end of their hockey careers? And its rubbish that any of this holds anyone accountable. Don't even get me started on the constant line and pairing changes. Players can't get into any rhythm when every shift they are on the ice with a new group of players. The game against Carolina was one of the most outrageous things I've seen watching hockey. If anyone wonders why we gave up eight goals that game, it might be that the players didn't have a clue who was on the ice next to them during any given shift.

Here's the thing. I am very willing to give the new coach a fair deal, but we are a bad team with a coach who through preseason and a couple regular season games has made many questionable decisions with lineups, personnel and in game coaching. I don't think Quinn has done a good job so far. Are we not allowed to question him? The new guy is allowed free reign with no questioning? There is no guarantee Quinn will be a good head coach. I wouldn't say he's failed yet or anything like that, but whether its AV or Quinn, there should be no difference in fan perception towards when they can or cannot criticize a coach. If AV had this start to the season, he'd be getting absolutely destroyed by the fan base.
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It amazes me how you think and speak like you know more then a professional coach-and all because Buch gets benched for 1 game.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
We knew things were not going to work. We are comparatively very bad to the rest of the league. If the solution to that is making chaotic changes just to look like you are doing something, I think thats dumb. I think the coaching staff should've had an idea where the team is, and shouldn't be making big changes just because they got the expected results, even if they aren't the results they'd like.
Click to expand...
That does not appear that is what is going on. He is holding players accountable. He is also trying to put his team into a position for best success.
I contend that Shattenkirk, Buchnevich, DeAngelo, Pionk and Namestnikov all should've not been scratched, nor should we have new lines every game for the sake of it. I could maybe understand one or two scratches or changing the lines after a couple of bad games. If you think a player is giving no effort or has a terrible attitude, send a message with a scratch or changing their place in the lineup. Five players being scratched in five games? One consistent line or pair through five of a long 82 game season? Seems like the point here is to just make chaotic changes for the sake of it. Besides, if you are scratching everyone to "make changes" or changing every line every game, will what you are trying to do have any effect? How do you successfully use that as a "message" to players? Quinn is coaching like this is college hockey. Its a long season. This is not a 25 game season. He needs to relax. Let players find their form.
Click to expand...
Until the players get the message, it needs to be taught again. The message seems to be pretty clear.
As I mentioned, he should be coaching players. Alienating multiple key players as a rookie head coach five games into a season and putting an objectively worse than possible team on the ice every game five games with constantly changing lines to the point that players develop no rhythm is not smart a smart strategy. If players aren't playing well, coach them up. Figure out why, and try to get them to play better. I don't really understand how any of this works. Its pure chaos.
Click to expand...
Who is he alienating? Quinn makes it pretty clear what he wants and he also made it clear what the one item he demands no matter what the results of the game is.
 
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Machinehead said:
To be fair, most of us were more aware than the previous coach.
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thats complete nonsense and you know it.The guy has forgotten more about hockey than any of us will ever know.Disagreeing on things he did or didnt do is 1 thing,thinking any of us knew more than him is asinine.
 
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