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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XI

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Re Nylander - If we had a 20 year old come up this year and score close to 60 pts we'd lose our minds.

As an aside- does Nylander play center at all or he's always on the wing? Looks like he took a lot of faceoffs last year (over 600)?
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Please don't revise history.

The worst you could say is that he was a very good second winger on a mediocre team last season, unless your own opinions trump any fair basis for judging hockey players. Performance wise, there's a decent case he was a low-end first line winger last season. I guess 23 year olds don't get better either.
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I won't deny that there were moments of brilliance; he's certainly talented. I wouldn't challenge that. But what can I say? I would love for him to be a first line player; nothing would make me happier than to have a 40-goal scorer on this team. But I don't think he's that guy. I realize I'm not a pro scout or coach, and I don't pretend to have the abilities of one, but that's just my gut feeling. :)
 
Inferno said:
A guy with a near 80 pt season is not comparable to a guy whose topped out at like 61 or whatever it was.

That lisnt doesn't even remotely back you up. It's got like a dozen guys on there and the majority of them are the best of the best of the best.

Nylander isn't even the best winger on his team...he's probably the 4th best forward on his current team. Heck considering the matchups kadri gets he might be the 5th.
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It is when he does it in 16 min/game which, as I posted a few months ago about Nash, there have been two players in the last 10 years who scored 70+ pts with that little ice time (Krejci and Laine). To expect him to be able to have a "near 80 point season" with that ice time is unreasonable as nobody has done it.

Three players have scored 60+ points the last 10 years with 16 mins or less (Nylander had 16:01). Kucherov JVR and...Ponikarovsky? 28 instances under 17 mins. 2 of those 28 hit 70 points. The high is Krejci at 73.

The least ice time any player in an 80 point season over the last 10 years was Cammalleri at 17:33.

In fact since ice time starting being tracked (97-98) there has NEVER been a 70 point player who got 16 mins or less a game. 13 of them did it in 17 mins however should note that 6 of those 13 were in 05-06 which was the first year post-lock out which had a ton of PP time.

And the list is not "best of the best." It's 20 years or younger rookies who scored 60+. If it turns out those guys all turned out great well...Nylander is part of that same group.
 
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I think he works the hardest by a mile. However, Fast is nothing but a 4th liner. When he plays top 6 he hurts the skill guys and makes the line weaker. Sub 2mil 4th line winger. Which is where he should be playing. With Boo and Lettieri on the 4th line.
 
I have more of an issue with them moving Chytil to wing than I do with Fast in the top 6.

While Chytil may eventually end up as a wing regardless of what they do, I think they'd be better off putting him in the AHL and letting him play center. If eventually he just proves to be better at wing than center so be it, yet I don't see any reason to push him there as a 19 year old.
 
Off Sides said:
I have more of an issue with them moving Chytil to wing than I do with Fast in the top 6.

While Chytil may eventually end up as a wing regardless of what they do, I think they'd be better off putting him in the AHL and letting him play center. If eventually he just proves to be better at wing than center so be it, yet I don't see any reason to push him there as a 19 year old.
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It's pretty common for young kids to come up on the wing and then possibly move to center later. Keller/Aho/Nylander/MacKinnon some/Domi/Galchenyuk/Drouin etc.
 
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SA16 said:
It's pretty common for young kids to come up on the wing and then possibly move to center later. Keller/Aho/Nylander/MacKinnon some/Domi/Galchenyuk/Drouin etc.
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Not for nothing, I'd rather not see Chytil have to follow the paths of some of those you listed.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Quinn showed all the makings of AV in preseason and early on, and I think we are seeing that he's no better with personnel. He might be even worse.

Besides, some of you are talking complete rubbish. Buchnevich is second on the team in points, third in P/60. Thats without playing particularly well. Still doing his job. There is no logical case to scratch him. Hayes and Zuccarello aren't doing their jobs. Namestnikov doesn't have a point, Spooner has one. Zibanejad has less points. Quinn is jerking him around just like AV did. Got rid of our best line after less than two games for no good reason. Puts him on the left. Quoted as saying he's unable to play the left. I guess Quinn doesn't care, and will just blame him for it. Then puts him with the mopiest and laziest player on the team who he never plays well with. Didn't work. Benched after two periods. Now scratched.

Gorton comes off looking weakest here. He takes a shot at AV's usage of Buchnevich, yet he hires a coach who is doing the same exact thing. Not only does Gorton come off looking bad, this whole situation with Quinn's personnel decisions early in the season is bad for his team.

Quinn has no control of the locker room. He's been scratching young players who have no business being scratched. The one veteran he scratches is the one he has already had a good relationship with. He's afraid to scratch the underperforming ones. What matters is not any player missing a game or two. We suck. We'll be one of the last place teams in the league and scratching one of your best players helps you out there. We are supposed to be rebuilding and letting our young players develop. How in any way do you accomplish that by doing what this guy is doing?
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If you took all the speculation out of this there wouldn't be much left at all. Quinn messing with personnel less than dozen games into his entire career let alone with this team is bad for the team? Quinn has no control of the locker room? This or that player doesn't get scratched because he's afraid?

You can have legitimate complaints without peppering in all the speculation. I agree him moving Buch to the left is stupid, but I also think Buch looked sort of reenergized in preseason and now disappears a bit. It's not that he's not productive or not good, it's that there's a ton to indicate that he can be even more productive and a lot better, same with Kreider and Zbad.
 
Let's not dismiss Quinn too quickly. Remember how long it took AV to get this club going?
 
Crease said:
My take re: Staal is that Staal has gotten a free pass for being terrible because he is terrible. In other words, in my mind Quinn is prioritizing effort over results (which I think is perfectly reasonable in a rebuilding campaign where the difference between going .450 and .250 doesn't mean squat).
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I totally agree with this. He's likely pushing guys who he thinks can do a lot better than they are. That is part of development imo, not detrimental to it in small doses.
 
I guess some folks think this is all going to come together at some point, like all this accountability is going to do stuff.

I just can't follow, I am more aligned with those who think this is sort of chaotic and sort of did not/ does not have to be as such.

I get the coaching wants all out efforts, I am fine with that but I think trying to say this guy has this lower threshold so he does not have to be very good, he just needs to try hard... that sort of thing seems to always be good to start but it eventually turns into why is this or that guy... Glass still playing when his threshold is so low, and it never ends or turns into what they are seemingly trying to achieve. It's kind of like punishing talent while rewarding low threshold and I'm not sure that really works all that well once it's all added up.
 
Buch has been fine imo. Don't agree with this.

Don't agree with Chytil playing wing either. Send him down.
 
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