Personally, Im just trying to look for the small positives. I like that Quinn had the stones to sit a vet like Shattenkirk who just doesn't have it, and I think he's instilling a philosophy that maximum effort is non-negotiable. We'll see how that plays out. I am really searching for something to get excited about personnel-wise, but this is going to be a very long process. I just hope the L's don't cause management to take short cuts --- like moving any and all valuable assets we currently have for Panarin or Nylander, etc, etc.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XI
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
- Start date
- Status
Personally, Im just trying to look for the small positives. I like that Quinn had the stones to sit a vet like Shattenkirk who just doesn't have it, and I think he's instilling a philosophy that maximum effort is non-negotiable. We'll see how that plays out. I am really searching for something to get excited about personnel-wise, but this is going to be a very long process. I just hope the L's don't cause management to take short cuts --- like moving any and all valuable assets we currently have for Panarin or Nylander, etc, etc.
Inferno
Registered User
It's amazing how many ppl are willing to break the bank for a 60 pt winger playing with a borderline generational center who wants 8m plus a year.
If nylander cost us shatty at 50% and something like zucc and a 3rd...then sure. But he won't...and so I'm not interested.
If nylander cost us shatty at 50% and something like zucc and a 3rd...then sure. But he won't...and so I'm not interested.
NYRFANMANI
Department of Rempe Safety Management
There is just no way management will ever think about doing that. It's the anti-thesis of what they said they would do. They know the rebuild will take time, they won't ever deal pieces for UFAs/RFAs, specially since it is fairly obvious this team is rather bad and holds almost no chance of making the POs. Why get Nylander? Let's get our own next kid. Panarin, to me, is almost a given sign here, can't wait for July 1.
Just don't worry, generally management did a great job so far. We added like 18 prospects in one year. It's all about the future trades, what the haul is.
Only thing, it'll be sad to maybe see quieter days on HFNYR.
NYRFANMANI
Department of Rempe Safety Management
I feel Nylander is acting like a little
. He didn't do himself one inch of a favor with this contract bs. The Leafs should most definitely shop him. The offense is f***ing mental, the pace is insane and he could be with them! Imagine adding WN to that offense too. If anything Nylander shot his own foot. He showed the Leafs they don't need him and his cap. Easy decision to trade him for an upgrade on D, if you ask me. Just not us ... 
edit: ok ... what about Skjei + something? No, I don't even want to think about trading for WN ... he's pretty much flawless offense ...
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Me too on how I'm approaching this season. I just wish more people were approaching it the same way.
I'd be interested in moving players we know have little future with the Rangers rebuild for guys like Panarin or Nylander. Toronto, in particular, I'm sure isn't really looking for future assets. A player to replace what Nylander would've provided (i.e. Zuccarello) and an established NHL D would be the basis for a deal. Columbus is trying to compete too.
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,726
- 19,440
The Trade
Sportsnet yesterday indicated that the Leafs aren't shopping Nylander and that Nylander has not asked for a trade. Still, just as a mental exercise, I was wondering what my fellow Rangers fans would say to the following deal:
Why should the Leafs entertain it?
- NYR trades to the Toronto Maple Leafs
- Mats Zuccarello Aasen
- NY Rangers 2019 third round pick (becomes a second round pick if NY make the playoffs this year)
- NY Rangers 2020 first round pick (if NY Rangers make the playoffs in 2019-2020)
- In exchange for
- Unsigned William Nylander
- Toronto 2019 first round pick (if Nylander does not sign with NY Rangers by draft day)
The Leafs look like the real deal so far, and I bet they would love a stand-up, skilled veteran (like #36 join) their team. Who wouldn't? He probably has at least a few more 60-point seasons left in him. Besides, Nylander isn't even playing, and a bird in the hand, goes the saying, is worth two in the bush.
On to the picks. At least one source expects the Rangers to be a bottom-ten team this year. A top-ten third round pick is not terrible. Besides, if Nylander signs with the Rangers, the likelihood of NYR entering the playoffs ought to increase significantly. Maybe it's enough to get the Rangers in -- but probably not. Either way, though, the third round pick carries no downside.
But what about next season? NY will have Kreider, Zibanejad, Chytil, Buchnevich, Andersson and -- hopefully -- Kravtsov and Shestyorkin. We have no reason to believe that the latter two won't pan out; they have both proven themselves in arguably the second most competitive professional hockey league. I wouldn't be surprised if the Rangers make the playoffs -- especially with Nylander in the mix.
What about that final pick? Chances are Nylander would sign with the Rangers -- no professional player wants to miss a full season (even in an under-performing team) -- but it's hard to imagine that pick being any higher than 25th. But what if he doesn't sign with the Rangers? It's not the end of the world; we're probably talking about a bottom-five first round pick anyway.
Why should the Rangers entertain it?
Zuccarello has hit 30; his trade value is likely to only decrease. We are also rebuilding; quality young players -- like Nylander -- should be our targets. Besides, we already have more than a few veterans (Staal, Shattenkirk, Lundqvist, McQuaid and Kreider come to mind) to help mentor the youngsters.
Now we revisit the picks. The third-rounder is likely to remain a third-rounder -- even if Nylander joins the Rangers. The conditional NY Rangers first round pick might be a bit ambitious: rebuilds rarely take more than two seasons. Yes, we do have some talented players coming over, but one has to wonder whether they'll join the big club right away. And, if not, will one more year of experience and, potentially, one or two trades or signings be enough to get us into the playoffs? I'm skeptical -- but I'm also not an odds-maker.
What about Nylander not signing? It wouldn't be the first time a player holds out over a contract.
So what now?
You tell me. Is one side overpaying? Does the deal simply not make sense? Discuss! (But, please, let's keep it civil).
We aren't trading our 1st pic this year, we could end up in a lottery spot. Theres no way Gorton does that.
Off Sides
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2008
- 9,755
- 5,585
I'd be excited to see them develop the youth. Howden has looked pretty good. Not sure what the point or plan is with any of the other 23 year old or younger guys.
- Jul 6, 2017
- 14,800
- 14,116
That's a fair point. I have seen only highlights of his and was otherwise going by stats. We definitely don't need Names #2, though, if that's all Nylander really is.
- Jul 6, 2017
- 14,800
- 14,116
Does the bloke really want $8 million? He's out of his mind. I thought those were just rumors.
And I thought Bure was bad. At least the Russian Rocket had proven himself by the time he had held out.
DutchShamrock
Registered User
People can be impatient about the rebuild and development of Quinn's system, fine. Whatever. But please, pretty please, can we show an ounce of patience when it comes to trades. Its October 15th and no one in the league is looking for a Shatrenkirk, McQuaid, Zuccarello or Hayes. The buyout period is closed so Staal is here. Lundqvist can't be traded.
So please stop asking why so and so is still on the team 5 games in. Go ahead and design your teams but please inject a little realism.
So please stop asking why so and so is still on the team 5 games in. Go ahead and design your teams but please inject a little realism.
East Coast Bias
Registered User
This. Trades take two partners. We can't firesale in October if no ones willing to make deals.
There's a handful of contenders, and a lot of teams that aren't guaranteed to be in playoff spots. Teams want to see what they have and where they land come the new year.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I just do not see a trade fit between the Rangers and Leafs right now.
The Leafs are not interested in taking prospects for Nylander. Additionally, I'm not convinced they're shopping Nylander in the immediate future, and if they did, they're looking for established NHL-talent. Ideally someone around Nylander's age, or a little older.
In that same mindset, they are not trading Nylander for Shattenkirk or Zucc. They're not trading for Hayes to be a third line center either.
Skjei might hold interest for them, but not straight up for Nylander. You'd be looking at a package, and that goes back to the first point about the Leafs not looking at prospects. That also says nothing about the shape the Rangers defense would be in post-Skjei.
Right now, the Rangers are still in a place where they are far more likely to be sellers. Be it Zucc, be it potentially Hayes, Zibanejad, Kreider, whoever. This is a team that is still accumulating pieces and assets and likely will be through at least this season. I don't see this team going the big splash for a young talent route yet. Not until they know who they have, and who they might be in a position to add at the TDL and the 2019 draft.
I know that's not an exciting answer, but it's fairly probable.
The Leafs are not interested in taking prospects for Nylander. Additionally, I'm not convinced they're shopping Nylander in the immediate future, and if they did, they're looking for established NHL-talent. Ideally someone around Nylander's age, or a little older.
In that same mindset, they are not trading Nylander for Shattenkirk or Zucc. They're not trading for Hayes to be a third line center either.
Skjei might hold interest for them, but not straight up for Nylander. You'd be looking at a package, and that goes back to the first point about the Leafs not looking at prospects. That also says nothing about the shape the Rangers defense would be in post-Skjei.
Right now, the Rangers are still in a place where they are far more likely to be sellers. Be it Zucc, be it potentially Hayes, Zibanejad, Kreider, whoever. This is a team that is still accumulating pieces and assets and likely will be through at least this season. I don't see this team going the big splash for a young talent route yet. Not until they know who they have, and who they might be in a position to add at the TDL and the 2019 draft.
I know that's not an exciting answer, but it's fairly probable.
- Jul 6, 2017
- 14,800
- 14,116
I presume the trade portion of that post is directed at my proposal -- and that's fine. Normally I wouldn't trade a veteran this early in the season either. A lot can happen between now and the trade deadline. But a good part of my reasoning was that Toronto is under increasing pressure to sign Nylander. If I'm not mistaken, if he doesn't sign a deal by December 1, he becomes ineligible to play this season. Now, I realize that such deadline is still six weeks away, but -- color me cynical -- I also imagine the Leafs are claiming to not be shopping Nylander just to improve their trading leverage.
- Jul 6, 2017
- 14,800
- 14,116
We leave the excitement to the games and trade deadline. Good discussion will suffice for now.
silverfish
got perma'd
I personally disagree. I think the fit is there, it's just finding out if Dubas likes the pieces we have available. We're rebuilding, the Leafs are in win-now. They have a major hole at RD. We have guys who play RD.
IF Shattenkirk did not list the Maple Leafs as part of his ten-team list, he, at 50%, would be extremely enticing for a win-now team who has a lot of youth to sign as the start of a package for Nylander. I doubt Dubas values guys like Smith and McQuaid as much as the Rangers organization seems to, but if on the off chance he does, those are two other guys who maybe he's looking at.
Meanwhile, the Rangers add a new piece to their core, a winger (not a center) who likely instantly becomes the organization's best piece. They also open a spot on the NHL roster for ADA to play every night, something they'll need to do to develop him.
Think it makes total sense on paper, but reality operates quite differently.
Last edited:
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
We leave the excitement to the games and trade deadline. Good discussion will suffice for now.
I think I'd start looking at teams that may be looking to take the next step if they're in a position to make some noise in the playoffs or are looking to return to the postseason --- rosters like Vancouver, Dallas, the Avs, the Hawks, maybe the Sabres.
Washington might look to make a deal as they seek to defend their championship. Nashville might look for something to put them over the top. The Ducks and Flames could be looking for boosts.
We also need to accept that most of the clubs will not be looking to deal from their NHL roster, so you have see what's in their system. The challenge for some teams is that all their best talent is already in the NHL, and they're not likely to move those guys.
That's why teams like Tampa, and to a lesser extent Boston were ideal trading partners last year. They had depth in their system they could live with trading, and they weren't afraid to move picks because they'd already used picks to get to this point.
Those are the types of teams we're going to be hearing about in about 12 weeks --- the teams looking to augment what they have, not necessarily shuffle active roster pieces.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
Even at 50 percent, Shattenkirk is not going in a trade for Nylander. Not at 29, coming off major surgery, and a slow start to the season.
Not if he plays the hockey of his life over the next two months.
I don't even think that looks good on paper for the Leafs.
There will be plenty of other teams being able to offer more than Keven Shattenkirk should the Leafs decide to entertain offers.
silverfish
got perma'd
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I hear where you're coming from, I just think it's a tough sell.
Who would you include to entice the Leafs?
silverfish
got perma'd
I have no specific idea but I will say there isn't a single player in the organization currently that would be a dealbreaker for me in a deal for Nylander. He's better than every piece that we have. Only player on this roster that I think might match up to Nylander is Kreider and that's because I'm insanely biased.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
I agree with your post, but I would also point out that as much as Leafs fans don't want to admit this, they've also got a major hole at wing if they don't have Nylander.
Reality is that every team in the league sees whats happened to Shattenkirk over the last year and a half, and nobody is going to take a chance on damaged goods unless his performance on the ice improves for a long stretch of games.
Off Sides
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2008
- 9,755
- 5,585
Maybe if they developed Pionk or DeAngelo the Leafs, as well as several other teams, would be interested in trading for them, or the Rangers would be able to use them next season instead of having to go out and get yet another RD to play in front of them? Maybe it allows for them to feel more comfortable trading Shattenkirk if they can find a deal for him now or eventually?
Any of that would seem to be more valuable than them playing Staal until they buy him out this off-season or whatever the return might be for McQuaid.
Any of that would seem to be more valuable than them playing Staal until they buy him out this off-season or whatever the return might be for McQuaid.
NYR Viper
Registered User
The guy would make some sense for Toronto is Chris Kreider. He's an ideal winger for a guy like Matthews, he can retrieve pucks and get to the net. He has a good amount of skill and size and his contract ends at the same time Marleau's does so they will have $$ to give him his slight increase he will probably ask for.
- Jul 6, 2017
- 14,800
- 14,116
- Status
Ad
Upcoming events
-
Props Alex Ovechkin to Record 895th Career Goal During 2024/25 Regular SeasonWagers: 12Staked: $21,883.00Event closes - 2 days from now- Updated: