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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XI

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Mac n Gs said:
There were rumors that he tried trading Zucc at the deadline, but a deal could not be completed because McDonagh negotiations went to the deadline. IIRC, one of the vetted posters here mentioned that Calgary was interested in Zucc, and we were gunning for Adam Fox or Rasmus Andersson.

Neither players are "win-now" players when they're heading towards UFA. Neither are good enough to carry the team by themselves. I think it's folly to expect Gorton to just keep these players and let them walk, and we all know it's not happening, so why even mention it?
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I'm merely making the point that it doesn't matter if there is a good trade offer on the table. You gotta get something for them. What matters is when you will get the best trade offer. There shouldn't be any other consideration. We shouldn't be thinking we needed veterans for this season to show the young players the way or anything like that. I heard that excuse used a couple of times for why we didn't trade them yet.
 
DanielBrassard said:
They probably do, but there was a rumor Ola posted that Nylsnder might be traded here for whatever it's worth, and it doesn't seem like any way a trade happens without Skjei IMO.
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Yeah I've seen the talk about it but it seems more like hype to me. At best, it might've been a leak from Michael to put some pressure on Dubas to get a deal done.

Now, that being said, Zucc at 50% and Skjei could arguably do a hell of a lot more to strengthen Toronto's chances at a deep cup run than just Nylander. I just don't see where Skjei fits in on the blue line there unless the Leafs think one of Gardiner, Reilly, or Skjei could move to the right side and the price to get a top-4 righty is just too high.

Nylander would be a really nice building block for us but I'm a little worried about his contract demands. $8M/8yrs is a lot for a kid who hasn't hit 70 points.
 
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Trxjw said:
I never said they shouldn't trade them. Where are you getting that?

What risk did Gorton take? There were rumors floating around at the deadline that had Gorton not been so tied up with the McDonagh trade that Zucc would have been gone as well. Sometimes you just can't facilitate that many major deals at the same time. Yzerman kept dragging his feet and Gorton was holding out for the prospects he wanted. That's the way it goes sometimes.

This reads like the weeks leading up to the deadline where everyone was insisting that Gorton should wait until the draft to deal McDonagh if he couldn't get the players this board felt we absolutely had to get. Most people were convinced that the returns would be even better with more teams involved. How did that work out for Ottawa?

Teams historically pay more for players at the deadline. Why? The allure of a cup, the pressure of moves by other GM's, and there's no risk of inadvertently giving up a 1st round pick that ends up being a lottery pick because of a bad season. The Rangers want more high picks and young prospects. If teams weren't giving them up at the draft or over the summer, then they should absolutely hold out until the deadline.

I fully believe that if the right deal to improve the future of the team was available for Zucc or Hayes, they would've been dealt already. They still could move well ahead of the deadline, but I doubt they will.
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We don't know that Gorton got who he wanted from Tampa Bay, so Yzerman might've dragged his feet, got his way, along with us not being able to trade Zucc because of it, if that was true.

I can buy the reasoning that you might get more at the deadline than in the offseason, but I don't think thats always the case, so we don't know what the offers at the different times will end up being. However, Zucc should've been available at the last deadline, and I have a hard time believing that a player will be worth more with half a season remaining than a season and a half remaining, even if we account for what you said that a player can sometimes be worth more with less term left. You'd rather have a player on your playoff roster twice than once.

I also think that Gorton will trade both and would've traded both already, if he got the trade offer he wanted. But if these players have bad seasons leading up to the deadline, you are probably going to get less for them than the "lowball" offers that might've come during the summer.

Neither of these two are great players. They don't come with the reputation that Rick Nash or Eric Staal had. Those two got a decent return because of their names. Zuccarello and Hayes are decent players who could fetch a decent return when they are playing well. When they aren't playing well, they probably won't fetch much, so if these two decide they are going to have bad attitudes and not put in the effort this season because they know they are gone at the deadline, we might get very little for them at the deadline, whether that was a comparatively good offer for their value compared to the offseason or not.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
We don't know that Gorton got who he wanted from Tampa Bay, so Yzerman might've dragged his feet, got his way, along with us not being able to trade Zucc because of it, if that was true.

I can buy the reasoning that you might get more at the deadline than in the offseason, but I don't think thats always the case, so we don't know what the offers at the different times will end up being. However, Zucc should've been available at the last deadline, and I have a hard time believing that a player will be worth more with half a season remaining than a season and a half remaining, even if we account for what you said that a player can sometimes be worth more with less term left. You'd rather have a player on your playoff roster twice than once.

I also think that Gorton will trade both and would've traded both already, if he got the trade offer he wanted. But if these players have bad seasons leading up to the deadline, you are probably going to get less for them than the "lowball" offers that might've come during the summer.

Neither of these two are great players. They don't come with the reputation that Rick Nash or Eric Staal had. Those two got a decent return because of their names. Zuccarello and Hayes are decent players who could fetch a decent return when they are playing well. When they aren't playing well, they probably won't fetch much, so if these two decide they are going to have bad attitudes and not put in the effort this season because they know they are gone at the deadline, we might get very little for them at the deadline, whether that was a comparatively good offer for their value compared to the offseason or not.
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I have a hard time believing that Gorton didn't get the pieces he wanted. Now, he might not have gotten the exact package or prospects he wanted, but the players he got were obviously on his list of an acceptable return.

Sure, it's not always the case, but it's certainly more likely. Look at the history of deadline deals. Average players regularly fetch multiple draft picks. GM's make panic moves like Forsberg for Erat or a 1st for Gaustad. Zucc was available at the deadline. Like Mac and I both mentioned, there was plenty of talk that Zucc was going to be moved but Gorton had to focus on the McDonagh trade. So will he get as much as he would have returned last deadline? Likely not, but it is what it is. It's not a risk or gamble by Gorton, just a reality of how busy he was.

I think that Zucc and Hayes are likely to have down years. It's a bad team and they aren't cornerstone players. However, I don't think that's going to drive down their value that much. Most GM's realize what they can expect from these guys and I think they'll likely get low first round picks and a B prospect at best. Of course when that happens most people will rip Gorton for not trading them for whatever made up value they decided they were worth last June.
 
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Trxjw said:
I have a hard time believing that Gorton didn't get the pieces he wanted. Now, he might not have gotten the exact package or prospects he wanted, but the players he got were obviously on his list of an acceptable return.

Sure, it's not always the case, but it's certainly more likely. Look at the history of deadline deals. Average players regularly fetch multiple draft picks. GM's make panic moves like Forsberg for Erat or a 1st for Gaustad. Zucc was available at the deadline. Like Mac and I both mentioned, there was plenty of talk that Zucc was going to be moved but Gorton had to focus on the McDonagh trade. So will he get as much as he would have returned last deadline? Likely not, but it is what it is. It's not a risk or gamble by Gorton, just a reality of how busy he was.

I think that Zucc and Hayes are likely to have down years. It's a bad team and they aren't cornerstone players. However, I don't think that's going to drive down their value that much. Most GM's realize what they can expect from these guys and I think they'll likely get low first round picks and a B prospect at best. Of course when that happens most people will rip Gorton for not trading them for whatever made up value they decided they were worth last June.
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Are you seriously saying that if the Rangers got a great offer for Zucc at the deadline they wouldn't be able to deal him because Gorton was busy? Do you think the man is alone in his office?

There has simply been no offer for him yet they would be happy with, they may even decide to re-sign him if that doesn't happen.
 
Pesce for Hayes

Brady and Zucc at 50 % for Nylander

We get younger only regret is not getting any 1st round picks for the future.

Pesce replaces Brady upgrade.

Nylander replaces Zucc upgrade

Bring up Anderson to replace Hayes short term downgrade.

Thinking the way Smith has started the season he might be tradable maybe a 3rd round pick and B prospect. Open up some more cap room.

If somehow they signed Bread-man in the offseason upgrade to the offense.
 
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The more I think about it—what about.

Hayes/McQuaid
For
Pesce/Fox

Carolina gets the centerthey need plus playoff vet in McQ to replace Pesce.

Rangers get 2 young Dman. Fox has already told multiple source that he only wants to play for the Rangers or Islanders.
 
howztheglass said:
Pesce for Hayes

Brady and Zucc at 50 % for Nylander

We get younger only regret is not getting any 1st round picks for the future.

Pesce replaces Brady upgrade.

Nylander replaces Zucc upgrade

Bring up Anderson to replace Hayes short term downgrade.

Thinking the way Smith has started the season he might be tradable maybe a 3rd round pick and B prospect. Open up some more cap room.

If somehow they signed Bread-man in the offseason upgrade to the offense.
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You dont need a future 1st for Hayes or Zucc if your getting a 22 year old offensive talent like Nylander and as 23 year old Dman.

I would take a top 5 pick, Nylander and Pesce over a top 5 pick, a late 1st or 2, a couple b prospects that Hayes might return and Skjei.
 
UAGoalieGuy said:
You dont need a future 1st for Hayes or Zucc if your getting a 22 year old offensive talent like Nylander and as 23 year old Dman.

I would take a top 5 pick, Nylander and Pesce over a top 5 pick, a late 1st or 2, a couple b prospects that Hayes might return and Skjei.
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I agree. I was just stating that most feel Hayes and or Zucc will return future picks. I feel that the trades listed would be a better way to go.
 
Skjei is the definition of a dime-a-dozen player. If he's the main piece for Nylander, you do that in a heartbeat.

The defense can't get any worse anyway.
 
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Webster said:
Are you seriously saying that if the Rangers got a great offer for Zucc at the deadline they wouldn't be able to deal him because Gorton was busy? Do you think the man is alone in his office?

There has simply been no offer for him yet they would be happy with, they may even decide to re-sign him if that doesn't happen.
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:rolleyes:

I'm saying that it was speculated that Zucc wasn't dealt because Gorton was tied up negotiating the McDonagh trade. That was media speculation, not mine.
 
I do believe that based on recent trades that nylander will not yield a hefty return. Skjei + Ronning + 2nd might get it done or something around that or skjei + zuc
 
I'm sure a lot of Nylander's value will be predicated upon whether or not a team sees him as a center long term. Wingers, even highly talented ones, generally don't return top-pairing defensemen. Carolina and Toronto makes sense on paper, but does Carolina want to give up a guy like Pesce for a guy who might be a center long term? Can't see Winnipeg moving Trouba now that the season has started and Myers looks like his old mediocre self. Not a lot of options out there for Dubas to get a top-pairing RHD.
 
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