Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[NYR]

I tend to agree with the confusing moves, get an extra pick for Brassard, use it in conjunction with another pick to rent Smith, buyout Girardi, sell Stepan for futures, sign two relatively expensive, 4 year UFAs, one of which is Smith, now he may be trading players for futures.

That is why I am hesitant to put much faith in them having any structured long term plan.

If I were to do some mental gymnastics, perhaps they felt even in transition, Smith for his snarl, and Shattenkirk for the PP, were better things to have during a transition period. Perhaps feeling he can move them at some point during their contracts for more assets of need based on those traits.

However I think it's more likely he is changing course depending on how the team is doing, how he feels they can do if he makes a move, at whatever date is circled on the CBA's schedule.

I have a feeling if this team strings together a decent winning record over the next 13 games until the deadline, the talk, including that of the media, of them being sellers changes quite a bit.

JG's ridiculous re-tool plan failed miserably and now that is forcing a "Faux" Rebuild..

 

[Nopuckluck]

As frustrated as I have been with Mac this year, i do not believe we should be moving him unless it was an overpayment. I think this team has the opportunity to truly rebuild on the fly, kinda how the Yankees did it, through a number of shrewd and smart moves while keeping part of the group around such as Gardner, CC, Betances, etc.

Keep McDonagh and Shatty. Keep Kreider, Hayes, and Buch. Miller i would love to keep if he got his head out of his ass and continued his progression. They have help on the way in DeAngelo, Chytil, and Andersson. Gropp can be a depth winger eventually. Same with Lettieri and Nieves as part of your bottom 6 with Fast. Maybe you can bring Nash back after trading him on a team friendly deal. Look to move Staal or keep him. Keep Smith for the last pair. Trade Holden.

Roll with:

McDonagh-Skjei
Staal-Shattenkirk
Smith-ADA

That is a worthy defense. It is. Although i think this team will continue to fail under AV. He is the root of the problem with the Team defense which leads to wide open attackers, shooting lanes, odd man rushes, etc. Hank has been his saving grave, he has masked all the holes with AVs system

Worthy defense? It’s the EXACT train wreck we have now?

 

[Machinehead]

McD from 30-37 yrs old at 8+ million =

And no loyalty comments. As I said earlier Jerry Seinfeld put it best when he said we root for laundry not players. Give me young exciting players. I know wha we have now, including McD. He’s not young, he’s not exciting. He’s good but declining

Brady Skjei is young and exciting and he'll never be a top pairing defenseman.

But young and exciting > actually effective, because this is HF.

 

[Off Sides]

Shattenkirk kind of fell into their lap so I don't know if signing him really falls into a lack of a long term plan.

Either way they need bodies. Its entirely possible that JG didn't want to tear it down completely and decided that he would want to see where the team was at before doing anything further.

I don't think they'll be buying at the deadline no matter what happens and I'd put a good amount of money on them moving the UFA's regardless of where they're at in the standings.

I hope so, but I could see it changing to something like, they sold, yet they also bought.

 

[Nopuckluck]

Brady Skjei is young and exciting and he'll never be a top pairing defenseman.

But young and exciting > actually effective, because this is HF.

No. Never said that. I also don’t like Skjei as more than a 3/4. I want to start over again with a new core. McD is a main part of the core. This fish is rotting and we need to remove the head. AV and McD and all of them frankly.

 

[Machinehead]

No. Never said that. I also don’t like Skjei as more than a 3/4. I want to start over again with a new core. McD is a main part of the core. This fish is rotting and we need to remove the head. AV and McD and all of them frankly.

The Oilers, Islanders, Panthers, Jackets, Sabres, and Coyotes have been starting over with a new core for 12 years. Looks like fun.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Frankly, who cares about the 8.5-9 million?

High-end players in prime positions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cap space.

Chciago and Pittsburgh proved that winning six Cups with four different rosters.

You can gut the rest every year if you need to if you have a #1 center and a #1 defenseman. Now we have neither. Instead we have a bunch of picks and cap space, and an organization that's never been able to manage those two things.

You should care, because there is an overwhelming chance that he will not be worth that pretty early into his contract.

Chicago won their cups before their guys got super expensive. McDonagh is not on the level as Pittsburgh's top 2. It would be one thing if we were talking about locking up a 24 year old McDonagh, but we aren't.

 

[Fireonk]

I don't think its unreasonable for us to be competing for the playoffs next year if all we do is trade away the UFA's. Next year we look at a roster of something like:
Kreider/Zib/Buch
Miller/Hayes/Zucc
XXX/Chytil/Fast
Vesey/Andersson or Nieves/Carey or whoever

Mcdonagh/Healthy Shatty
Skjei/Smith
Staal/Deangelo

Combine all of our picks plus whatever the ufa trades bring in (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and a B prospect for Nash, Grabner, Holden, DD doesnt seem unreasonable)

If they can get out of either Smith or Staal's contract, even better. Give Pionk a shot.

If we trade Mcdonagh and to a lesser extent Zucc then its full on rebuild time unless we hit massively on the return.

 

[RGY]

Worthy defense? It’s the EXACT train wreck we have now?

Quite a bit of an overreaction. Shattenkirk has played hurt all year and still was able to somewhat produce close to his normal totals. Staal has actually played very, very well defensively this year. Mac has not been himself. Skjei has been average and could be better. Smith is the only one playing below expectations.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't think its unreasonable for us to be competing for the playoffs next year if all we do is trade away the UFA's. Next year we look at a roster of something like:
Kreider/Zib/Buch
Miller/Hayes/Zucc
XXX/Chytil/Fast
Vesey/Andersson or Nieves/Carey or whoever

Mcdonagh/Healthy Shatty
Skjei/Smith
Staal/Deangelo

Combine all of our picks plus whatever the ufa trades bring in (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and a B prospect for Nash, Grabner, Holden, DD doesnt seem unreasonable)

If they can get out of either Smith or Staal's contract, even better. Give Pionk a shot.

If we trade Mcdonagh and to a lesser extent Zucc then its full on rebuild time unless we hit massively on the return.

I agree that this team isn't far off with a new coach, which is why it's so disappointing to be dealing such a massive piece.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

McD from 30-37 yrs old at 8+ million =

And no loyalty comments. As I said earlier Jerry Seinfeld put it best when he said we root for laundry not players. Give me young exciting players. I know wha we have now, including McD. He’s not young, he’s not exciting. He’s good but declining

 

[Machinehead]

You should care, because there is an overwhelming chance that he will not be worth that pretty early into his contract.

Chicago won their cups before their guys got super expensive. McDonagh is not on the level as Pittsburgh's top 2. It would be one thing if we were talking about locking up a 24 year old McDonagh, but we aren't.

Everyone wants cap space but nobody wants the real players you buy with it.

Everyone wants draft picks but nobody wants the real players you select with them.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't think its unreasonable for us to be competing for the playoffs next year if all we do is trade away the UFA's. Next year we look at a roster of something like:
Kreider/Zib/Buch
Miller/Hayes/Zucc
XXX/Chytil/Fast
Vesey/Andersson or Nieves/Carey or whoever

Mcdonagh/Healthy Shatty
Skjei/Smith
Staal/Deangelo

Combine all of our picks plus whatever the ufa trades bring in (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and a B prospect for Nash, Grabner, Holden, DD doesnt seem unreasonable)

If they can get out of either Smith or Staal's contract, even better. Give Pionk a shot.

If we trade Mcdonagh and to a lesser extent Zucc then its full on rebuild time unless we hit massively on the return.

If the plan is to just make it to the dance, sure.

If the plan is to try and build towards long term success, what you're proposing has a 100% chance at failure.

 

[Ola]

What does loyalty have yo do with the price of tea in China?

If the NYR GM makes the moves that are rumored to be in the works, who gives a rats ass what this team looks like next year of the year after?

The scenario that I hope plays out gets this team back in the P.O. picture in 3 years and a lot better than what we are right now

What does loyalty have to do with it? There is not one single good reason whatsoever to not dangle Shatty if we are blowing up the core. People say that we don’t have RD depth, well if we move Zucc and don’t bring Nash back we have very little wing depth too, and not one prospect in the ranks.

We need to bring in a RD that can defend anyway. Do that. Trade Shatty, Smith, Nash and Grabner. That should get you three 1sts basically and a 2-3rd, that is a lot. Listen to offers on McD and Zucc and move them if you get an offer you can’t turn down. If you deal McD you keep Smith. Buy out Staal. Get a RD that can defend. We need that anyway. Graves can play. TDA can play. Pionk is underrated, take my word for it.

 

[Fireonk]

I agree that this team isn't far off with a new coach, which is why it's so disappointing to be dealing such a massive piece.

I'm with you. We can't replace McDonagh internally let alone find him a legit partner for the first pairing. Unless you get handed a "can't miss" overpayment you hold on to him and re-assess next trade deadline. Would definitely lose value of course, but by then youll have a better idea of any new guys you added to the system and how the draft picks from this year are turning out. Re-signing him to whatever it would cost isn't a bad "worst case" scenario as long as we can get out of Smith or Staal's contract to soak that up a bit.

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider/Zib/Buch
Miller/Hayes/Zucc
XXX/Chytil/Fast
Vesey/Andersson or Nieves/Carey or whoever

Mcdonagh/Healthy Shatty
Skjei/Smith
Staal/Deangelo

Instead we'll have

Vesey-Zib-Cap Space
Miller at 5x5-Hayes-Chytil
Draft Pick-Andersson-Darft Pick
Cap Space-Cap Space-Buchnevich

Skjei-Cap Space
Draft Pick-Shattenkirk
Cap Space-Smith

Lundqvist's damned soul
Shestyorkin

 

[Fireonk]

If the plan is to just make it to the dance, sure.

If the plan is to try and build towards long term success, what you're proposing has a 100% chance at failure.

The long term plan has nothing to do with what I think our chances are next season if we just trade our UFAs.

I do think if we trade McDonagh and don't get a first pairing D back (as in someone who becomes that person in a couple years) then I do think we have a 100% chance at failure of making a serious run any time soon. But then again, I'm not sold on Skjei being a top pairing guy ever - or at least not a 1A - like some people are.

I do think Zucc is certainly more replaceable in that sense and would be open to trading him now for a good return, even if it isn't can't miss.

 

[Tawnos]

This team is incredibly far off, even with a new coach.

 

[Nopuckluck]

The Oilers, Islanders, Panthers, Jackets, Sabres, and Coyotes have been starting over with a new core for 12 years. Looks like fun.

Other teams have been starting over for much less. And they’ve won

 

[Nopuckluck]

Quite a bit of an overreaction. Shattenkirk has played hurt all year and still was able to somewhat produce close to his normal totals. Staal has actually played very, very well defensively this year. Mac has not been himself. Skjei has been average and could be better. Smith is the only one playing below expectations.

You’re still bringing back the same players who have proven to be atrocious as a group

 

[Tawnos]

The question isn’t what McDonagh is this year or next. It’s a question of what he will be in the next window.

A diminished McDonagh doesn’t give you the 1D we all agree you need. A diminished McDonagh is what we are likely to have in 4 years.

 

[Nopuckluck]

The long term plan has nothing to do with what I think our chances are next season if we just trade our UFAs.

I do think if we trade McDonagh and don't get a first pairing D back (as in someone who becomes that person in a couple years) then I do think we have a 100% chance at failure of making a serious run any time soon. But then again, I'm not sold on Skjei being a top pairing guy ever - or at least not a 1A - like some people are.

I do think Zucc is certainly more replaceable in that sense and would be open to trading him now for a good return, even if it isn't can't miss.

You see. I think Zucc is the most irreplaceable. He is the teams heart and soul. I would worry about losing him even though I say do it.

 

[Fireonk]

You’re still bringing back the same players who have proven to be atrocious as a group

You see. I think Zucc is the most irreplaceable. He is the teams heart and soul. I would worry about losing him even though I say do it.

You are contradicting yourself a bit here. Who cares if we lose the heart and soul of an atrocious group? For the record, I dont disagree that losing Zucc wont hurt I just think ultimately if this group isn't working together well, the reasons for keeping someone shouldnt be his intangibles.

 

[Nopuckluck]

In your opinion. Thankfully most disagree including it seems Rangers management

 

[Fireonk]

The question isn’t what McDonagh is this year or next. It’s a question of what he will be in the next window.

A diminished McDonagh doesn’t give you the 1D we all agree you need. A diminished McDonagh is what we are likely to have in 4 years.

Certainly not arguing, but unless you get that 1D by trading him then it doesnt really matter much.