Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
The rebuild will last however long it takes us to find franchise players at center and defense.
Funny, cause we already had our #1 defenseman.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines
- Thread starter Gardner McKay
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The rebuild will last however long it takes us to find franchise players at center and defense.
Funny, cause we already had our #1 defenseman.
Thanks Machinehead. So I guess the answer is dependent on the pieces we move to get them and the time it takes the new guys to gel and our prospects to progress. Could be a couple of years plus then on that basis.
Well if you take a look at the Brooks article, there's a bit in there that says the Rangers' "objective is to add young NHL or NHL-ready players every bit as much as garnering additional selections in upcoming entry drafts" and another line referencing that they don't intend to head down a years-long rebuild where they're hunting for lottery picks.
So my best guess is that the Rangers are hoping to be back in the playoff hunt in the 2019-2020 season. They have the advantage of a number of quality young players on the roster as it stands right now, and guys like Chytil and Andersson looking like they'll be vying for jobs next fall -- perhaps sooner if we see a mass-exodus before the trade deadline.
With all that in mind, I would look at it like this: Deal the pending UFA's at the deadline. If a team is willing to pony up for Zucc or McDonagh at that time, then make those deals as well, otherwise revisit deals leading up to the draft. Hopefully those deals land us a number of picks, but more importantly players who are in their D+1 or D+2 seasons and looking to make the jump to the NHL in the next 12 months. Now you can take a step back and take measure of what you've added, and where your weaknesses are.
For me, the real key to the rebuild comes between July 1st 2018 and July 1st 2019. During this time you'll see how guys like Chytil and Andersson look. You'll see how Skjei looks in a larger role. You'll see what a healthy Shattenkirk looks like. ADA, Pionk, Graves, and Gilmour will have their time to prove themselves or likely get lost in the shuffle. Plus you can see what you have in the pieces you acquired in trades. So if Andersson and Chytil are playing well in the NHL, and they bump a guy like JT Miller out of the top-six, that opens up some options. Maybe you can move Miller in a swap for a defensemen to a team that has a surplus.
Then of course you enter into the summer of 2019 which has a strong UFA class coming up. I'd be surprised if the team didn't use that period to try and fill some holes that remain.
To wrap up, that's kind of my vision for it. I obviously have no insight into what the Rangers' brass is actually thinking, but to me it seems like a reasonable plan of action.
Edit: Also, welcome to the board.
Off Sides
Registered User
- Sep 8, 2008
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The CBA has an opt out right before the 2020 season.
It may be a coincidence, but Lundqvist, Shattenkirk, Staal and Smith all have the same last contract year of 2020-21.
If it was planned, and they think a work stoppage is on the horizon, that is a lot of vet players, with high cap hits, all coming off the books at the same time, under a possibly new, yet known, altered set of CBA rules.
Not sure I have much faith they have that sort of long term planning, or would follow through on it, but the timing of those events seems to at the very least, so far, give them some flexibility. Perhaps they have a good up and coming team at that point when those contracts end, and are planning on using some of that cap space to bolster the team through free agency or some large trade at that point.
Perhaps it means nothing and that is just happenstance.
Well if you take a look at the Brooks article, there's a bit in there that says the Rangers' "objective is to add young NHL or NHL-ready players every bit as much as garnering additional selections in upcoming entry drafts" and another line referencing that they don't intend to head down a years-long rebuild where they're hunting for lottery picks.
So my best guess is that the Rangers are hoping to be back in the playoff hunt in the 2019-2020 season. They have the advantage of a number of quality young players on the roster as it stands right now, and guys like Chytil and Andersson looking like they'll be vying for jobs next fall -- perhaps sooner if we see a mass-exodus before the trade deadline.
With all that in mind, I would look at it like this: Deal the pending UFA's at the deadline. If a team is willing to pony up for Zucc or McDonagh at that time, then make those deals as well, otherwise revisit deals leading up to the draft. Hopefully those deals land us a number of picks, but more importantly players who are in their D+1 or D+2 seasons and looking to make the jump to the NHL in the next 12 months. Now you can take a step back and take measure of what you've added, and where your weaknesses are.
For me, the real key to the rebuild comes between July 1st 2018 and July 1st 2019. During this time you'll see how guys like Chytil and Andersson look. You'll see how Skjei looks in a larger role. You'll see what a healthy Shattenkirk looks like. ADA, Pionk, Graves, and Gilmour will have their time to prove themselves or likely get lost in the shuffle. Plus you can see what you have in the pieces you acquired in trades. So if Andersson and Chytil are playing well in the NHL, and they bump a guy like JT Miller out of the top-six, that opens up some options. Maybe you can move Miller in a swap for a defensemen to a team that has a surplus.
Then of course you enter into the summer of 2019 which has a strong UFA class coming up. I'd be surprised if the team didn't use that period to try and fill some holes that remain.
To wrap up, that's kind of my vision for it. I obviously have no insight into what the Rangers' brass is actually thinking, but to me it seems like a reasonable plan of action.
Edit: Also, welcome to the board.
Thanks for the welcome and the comprehensive answer. I agree with your timeframe too, if the Brooks article is to be believed. Coming from this side of the pond (Scotland). The level of debate and knowledge here is so interesting and refreshing. I like the idea of a fully fit Shattenkirk and Skjei (who I already like) with a larger role). What I don't have the visibility that you guys do is on the farm at Hartford and other prospects in the system (NCAA). So reading a lot of these threads has been invaluable for me.
Thanks.
The new CBA and potential new salary cap is interesting background for this. The shut-out looks pretty certain again. I'd be surprised if Staal is with us in 2020-21 though.
Savant
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- Oct 3, 2013
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I’m certain that McDonagh would rather be playing with Girardi than Holden.
Just please don't do what Montreal did in trading Subban.
Crazy its pretty much a known fact now that the Canadiens could have got Bo Horvat, Chris Tanev and the 5th overall pick for Subban. That 5th pick could have been Keller or Tkachuk. What a disaster. They could have been set at center for the next decade. Yes, not elite guys but very exciting young centermen.
So the point??? Don't make the same mistake they did JG. If we trade Mcdonagh (and i'm not saying mcdonagh is better than Subban...not trying to start that debate) we better get a top prospect and at least a first (should be first and second). Since most likely that first is gonna be in the mid 20's.
Crazy its pretty much a known fact now that the Canadiens could have got Bo Horvat, Chris Tanev and the 5th overall pick for Subban. That 5th pick could have been Keller or Tkachuk. What a disaster. They could have been set at center for the next decade. Yes, not elite guys but very exciting young centermen.
So the point??? Don't make the same mistake they did JG. If we trade Mcdonagh (and i'm not saying mcdonagh is better than Subban...not trying to start that debate) we better get a top prospect and at least a first (should be first and second). Since most likely that first is gonna be in the mid 20's.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
At least a second round pick.
The Blues are definitely trying to drum up interest in a guy like Kyrou as a trade chip for any moves they make. Not that I see them moving him for Nash or Grabner, but they definitely intend to be aggressive if they can.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
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I would say that they would have to miss the playoffs this year, and then they would most likely miss next year. The year after that the new core would be fully infused.
I would still go about these changes:
Nash trade for a Hanzal-like return (Nash + 6th Rounder for 1st, 2nd, 4th Round picks)
Zuccarello for a top prospect, 1st, replacement roster player
Grabner for 1st rounder
McDonagh I would need one of these massive packages -- Liljegren + Kapenen + 1st + 2nd, or Liljegren + Marner/Nylander
Unfortunately the roster next year would be very thin, hence why the rangers would miss the playoffs. On the bright side, this would give them 3 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks, a replacement roster player, and a top prospect.
I think the safest bet is to rent the UFA's, and then a massive overpayment for one of McDonagh or Zuccarello, but not both. That Toronto package is amazing IMO
Vinny DeAngelo
Jimmy Easy to defend
There was also that rumor that had Kyrou and a pick on the table for Hoffman but the Sens turned it down. Hoffman is younger and has an extra year, but perhaps the price for Zuccarello would be more appealing to Armstrong.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
The McD/Zucc deals are the most interesting to me. Not just because they have the potential for a higher yield, but also because any move might have to wait until the draft.
I also wouldn't rule out of a move that isn't on the radar at this point - be it a guy like JT Miller. That's not based on anything other than the belief that just about everyone is on the table for the right price.
I also wouldn't rule out of a move that isn't on the radar at this point - be it a guy like JT Miller. That's not based on anything other than the belief that just about everyone is on the table for the right price.
Cheapshot
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- May 23, 2012
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Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
Why?
Forget the fact that Holden blows Girardi away, McDonagh and Girardi are absolute poison together.
I can't believe we're even still discussing this.
It's almost impossible for an NHL pair to be as bad as McDonagh-Girardi was the last two years.
If McD/Zucc are moved, you can still entertain the idea of re-signing them if/when they hit free agency.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
Holden has a signficantly better CF%, GF%, and xGF% in this garbage system than Girardi does in Tampa's zone.
Holden in the worst situation possible > Girardi in the best situation possible.
Trading McD only to keep Shattenkirk/Smith is beyond idiotic IMO
Who would you rather give the $$ too?
There's only one correct answer..
Who would you rather give the $$ too?
There's only one correct answer..
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
Who we'd rather have is a non-issue at this point, because Smith and Shattenkirk already got the dollars. The ship has sailed.
Goes back to my point that it's super confusing that Gorton was throwing money around in July and is trading his #1 defenseman in January.
You said franchise defenseman. McD is not that. First pair yes. Franchise no
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
Trading McDonagh to try and find one of the 10-12 better defenseman than him through the draft is still shitty asset management.
We're opening up a hole we have no plan to fill.
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