Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[McRanger92]

Sorry but not giving up much for one year guaranteed of a guy whose typical games played for a season is 50 games. I’ll roll the dice with what we have first.
Kakko going for a rental, and a fragile one at that, WITH a first and a prospect? Really bad asset management IMO.

ill admit im not trying to win the Asset Management Cup, but I’d have every intention of signing Chychrun long term once acquired. He wouldn’t be a rental

Who cares about PP2. They should give PP1 the full two minutes.

I’d prefer not to live in a world where our hopes and dreams are on the sticks of 5 guys I only kinda trust. And I’d say I’m pretty optimistic on the current group generally.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Has anyone in the playoffs cooked the Panthers as much as Lafreniere did?

Laf >>>> McDoofus and Toolsaitl combined

 

[IDvsEGO]

My fear is, he's just not a good defenseman. Bad reads, flat footed, horrible plays along the boards, he just looked out of it in the Florida series. We're all enamored with his size and skating I just don't think there's much else there. Those things could be limited on the wing.


Cuylle looked worse on the 4th line than he did on the 3rd. He was barely noticeable when Lav made the switch.

Cuylle hit a wall mid season. he lost the jump he had early. He needs a full offseason to actually prepare for the NHL.
I think his long term projection is a middle 6 guy, who might somehow get carried on a top line.

 

[n8]

Cuylle hit a wall mid season. he lost the jump he had early. He needs a full offseason to actually prepare for the NHL.
I think his long term projection is a middle 6 guy, who might somehow get carried on a top line.

Had he kept going, Cuylle would probably be in the ball-park of a Chris Kreider rookie season. Hopefully he just hit is sophmore slump early and will come back next season at post-slump levels. Needs to add pool jumping to his training regimen.

 

[chosen]

Cuylle, I'm not sure about.

I feel like he hits just to hit and doesn't really get anything going.

I hope we can teach him out of that somehow.

His hits don't result in anything positive and I'm not sure I have ever seen him pass the puck.

Laf >>>> McDoofus and Toolsaitl combined

Nikita Kucherov, David Pastrnak, Mika Zibanejad, Artemi Panarin, Connor McDavid, and Leon Drasital have combined for 0 5v5 goals in 19 games against the Panthers.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Thoughts on offer sheeting Quentin Byfield?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Thoughts on offer sheeting Quentin Byfield?

Won’t happen but I’d love to do it

 

[bernmeister]

Fact 2 doesn't demonstrate cause and effect as much as it demonstrates randomness. Who else played in all of those 20 games?

A real fact is that when Trouba was hurt, the Rangers played their best hockey of the season.

I respectfully disagree to extent that you could make the counterpoint that the other 20 guys who dressed were generally the same.
If that is true, then is Rempe not an x factor providing a dif?

I mean I get what you are trying to say but in order for it to hold true, it would almost have to mean that several dif players were part of when Rempe played, not just him, in the role of catalyst or x factor.
When Rem played, he was basically the only guy as potential x factor, b'c he was the only lineup variation making a dif.
I mean we added Wenn + Ros, but they were no big shakes, right?

 

[UnSandvich]

Thoughts on offer sheeting Quentin Byfield?

LA would match any reasonable OS

 

[bernmeister]

Thoughts on offer sheeting Quentin Byfield?

have been pushing for coupla yrs to add this guy, his stock is way up, and it will be dif to overpay an offer too good to turn down while doing so in currency we can live with

As to OS, I think LA does whatev it takes to match even a high #

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Thoughts on offer sheeting Quentin Byfield?

We could only offer as much as 6.4M a year, they would absolutely match that. Kid is finally breaking out like Laf and we would match that 6.4M for him too.

 

[gravey9]

Cuylle hit a wall mid season. he lost the jump he had early. He needs a full offseason to actually prepare for the NHL.
I think his long term projection is a middle 6 guy, who might somehow get carried on a top line.

Yeah, I felt that too. As the season went on, he lost a bit of his skill and composure with the puck he showed earlier in the year. He has all the raw tools to become a highly effective middle six forward with time. Once he has the strength/stamina to last 82 + 16, and he is able to build and maintain confidence, he'll be really strong.

 

[bernmeister]

The fact is you cannot support your position because there is zero data out there. They won 18 of 20 with him playing < 6 minutes a night. There is nothing beyond that. You can speculate all you like but there is absolutely nothing factual about your Rempe position. There can’t be because he’s never played meaningful minutes - particularly in the 3rd and I don’t give a rat’s ass about Messier’s video presentation. He’s done nothing on a professional coaching level anywhere.

There is no need to speculate on more than 6 min nite which again is fault of braintrust favoring vets.

Also the correct logic here is:
if he was productive enuf to make a dif in 6ish mins per game
then
no reason to think he would not be as productive or any less a difference maker with a full amount of mins.

I agree it is speculative to say if he plays 15-20 mins, say 3x mins, you get 3x return in production.
But not so to say he delivers more of the same w/full shifts

remember, this guy is not a goon
yes, he is our primary enforcer
and there are some rough edges to his game
but he is not a 1 dimensional goon

had he played serious mins vs FL, their skaters would have to deal with his physical playing = draining to some extent, and our other lines being less roughed up would have played better and w/mo energy

Bern literally used the word canard and thats not the most ridiculous thing I've seen in this thread today.

tell it like it is, let your conscience be yr guide

We could only offer as much as 6.4M a year, they would absolutely match that. Kid is finally breaking out like Laf and we would match that 6.4M for him too.

If we did all manner of crazy ass s*** to create 10m-ish cap, setting aside whether or not we should offer that much, LA would match.

Cost of Byfield, if at all:
Shesty
taking on pld at half
2 higher assets like Othmann + gabe P

according to main board,, they would THINK about moving him for 4 higher value 1sts

---------------
Wish when I said let's gamble on By guy last yr, I would have gotten more support here.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Would be tickled pink if Cuylle developed into even a lite-version of Ryan Clowe (sj years)

 

[GAGLine]

Thoughts on offer sheeting Quentin Byfield?

We don't have the draft picks to offer sheet anyone unless we go into the 4 1st round pick territory (~11.5 mil).

 

[chosen]

I respectfully disagree to extent that you could make the counterpoint that the other 20 guys who dressed were generally the same.
If that is true, then is Rempe not an x factor providing a dif?

I mean I get what you are trying to say but in order for it to hold true, it would almost have to mean that several dif players were part of when Rempe played, not just him, in the role of catalyst or x factor.
When Rem played, he was basically the only guy as potential x factor, b'c he was the only lineup variation making a dif.
I mean we added Wenn + Ros, but they were no big shakes, right?

You're assigning the reason for wins to a guy who played 5 minutes a game and scored 2 points in 17 regular-season games. That is so absurd that it's difficult for me to believe that anyone truly believes it.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Cuylle, I'm not sure about.

I feel like he hits just to hit and doesn't really get anything going.

I hope we can teach him out of that somehow.

They've got him doing the Tanner Glass thing of hitting the defenseman after the puck is gone. Depressing.

 

[Hire Sather]

You're assigning the reason for wins to a guy who played 5 minutes a game and scored 2 points in 17 regular-season games. That is so absurd that it's difficult for me to believe that anyone truly believes it.

I read most of bern's posts and feel the same.

Maybe it's all one big act which is the only way he'd actually win as much as he says he does.

I'd tip my cap.

 

[chosen]

I read most of bern's posts and feel the same.

Maybe it's all one big act which is the only way he'd actually win as much as he says he does.

I'd tip my cap.

Win what?

 

[Hire Sather]

Win what?

Win every argument like he credits himself as doing

 

[bhamill]

ill admit im not trying to win the Asset Management Cup, but I’d have every intention of signing Chychrun long term once acquired. He wouldn’t be a rental



I’d prefer not to live in a world where our hopes and dreams are on the sticks of 5 guys I only kinda trust. And I’d say I’m pretty optimistic on the current group generally.

We’d still be trading assets for him as if he already were signed though.
I see what you’re going for, bud, I personally have very little faith in his ability to stay healthy… but who knows?

 

[jay from jersey]

Cuylle hit a wall mid season. he lost the jump he had early. He needs a full offseason to actually prepare for the NHL.
I think his long term projection is a middle 6 guy, who might somehow get carried on a top line.

He was one of the only players on our roster that didn’t get caved along the boards in the panthers series…..
He def hit the rookie wall a bit, but playing with Wennberg/kakko 2 guys who are devoid of any offensive talent, that line was basically neutralized.
They wouldn’t hurt you, but they sure weren’t a threat to score on you either..
That was a lot of hockey for Cuylle this season. And the longer it went on, the more intense it got.
Thought he performed as well as can be expected under the circumstances..
After a good offseason, I expect him to surprise plenty going forward….
Gotta get some talent that can be an offensive threat….
Cuylle also would drive the net and look for rebounds. A major problem being on a line with Kakko/Wennberg is shot would hardly ever get thru, and if it did, it was usually a muffin or wide of the cage entirely……
Cuylle and Kakko both looked better offensively with Brod in the middle. Not because brod was a better player than Wennberg, but brod would shoot a lot and with no hesitation.
That’s why adding a guy like Ross Colton or someone of that ilk of the 3rd line is a must……
I’m certainly more high on Cuylles play and offensive output than I am on Kakko….
I shouldn’t be, considering Kakko was a top 2 pick, but just watching the games Cuylle is more physical, more dangerous in the O-Zone, goes to front of the net, and has a better shot.
He needs to improve his skating and get better at protecting the puck, but no way should he be a 4th liner going fwd.
we’re going to need more out of him next season for sure, but the more I see from him the more I like coming off his 1st full Rookie season.

 

[jay from jersey]

We’d still be trading assets for him as if he already were signed though.
I see what you’re going for, bud, I personally have very little faith in his ability to stay healthy… but who knows?

This…..
I’d rather go after Sanheim…….
Imo he does everything better except shoot the puck…..
6.25 mill for the next 6 years is steep, but it’s likely what your resigning chychrun for.
Pair him with Fox, and no need to run him on the PP with Fox and Jones on the roster…,,
Chychrun makes The D softer to play against to go along with his durability issues.
The cost to acquire each guy will likely be similar

 

[bleedblue94]

What do you think lindgren is worth?

He going to get his qualifying offer. The cap is going up. He's getting his qo value even if it's not here. The issue w Lindgren is mainly trouba. People look at trouba and see a player that is limited puck wise and offensively. I think a lot know that trouba being moved is not likely so everything turns to Lindgren who is also limited puck wise and offensively. I think Lindgren is a 2nd pair d man and we get frustrated with him bc here he needs to be a top pair guy. To answer your question it depends where he signs and for how long. I could see a team singing for for 5 years at 4m per. I don't know if that team is nyr though.

I would love to know if people would rather have trouba at his current 8m per or Lindgren at 4m per. I think people also need to remember that with the cap there is no repayment now, the cap is going to balloon over the next few years so something that looks like a questionable value this summer will look like a bargain in 2 or 3 years.

 

[bleedblue94]

So you think Fox regressed this year and Lindgren was the same guy he always was? Based off of what exactly?

Everything for Fox under the hood is really no different than it normally is and this was the first year where he was a PPG+ which is a f***ing feat when your D partner is Lindgren and you have one line that creates anything that resembles consistent offense (so no, thats not entirely Lindgren's fault, but he's always suppressed Fox's numbers 5v5.)

Also Fox had 29 points in 33 games vs playoff competition this year. Thats hardly feasting on bad competition. Also saying that Fox has never been a top defensive player is just a laughable statement. If he isn't a top defensive player, then no one in the league is.

Lindgren being 26 doesn't really matter, he's taken way more punishment than the average 26 year old has taken and its clearly had an impact on his game. There is no special connection or bond or fit here, thats all stuff thats been drummed up by MSG and the fact that they played together at the NTDP. He's performed better with other partners including guys who are seen by the majority as bottom pair defensemen. The fact that Karlsson had a defensive D as a partner 10 years ago and Leetch had one even longer ago is irrelevant. The game has changed since then and if you can't aid transition at all, you really shouldn't be playing top 4 minutes.

You claim not to be a Lindgren apologist, but you're making a ton of excuses for him since apparently everyone (Fox, the forwards, the system, God) is at fault for his lack of performance but Lindgren himself. I don't think that every single problem that this team has is tied to Lindgren, but he is the biggest one. If you want to tell me that he can't be blamed for how he's used then fine, thats fair. Thats not a reason to keep him and there really isnt a single compelling reason to do so. You may think he has more value than 2 million, but he sure as hell isn't worth the 4+ million he's going to make going forward which is way too much to be paying a guy who, at best, is a bottom pairing defenseman/PK guy and the ultimate strike against that is that he will never be deployed as if here were to stay.

Look at the other top D in the league, which of those guys plays with someone who is on par with or worse than Lindgren? Dahlin might be the only one and thats partially why the Sabres haven't made the playoffs in 900 years.

People use regressed to suggest someone sucked, I'm not saying he sucked or took a big step back. Fox is an established top d in the league. I just don't think his complete game was as good this year from watching him. His points were there for sure though. People can excel in certain points of their game and not be as good in other parts, we see it all the time. I think I just have a higher level that I would love to see fox get to in his computer game. Everyone (rightfully) is giving laffy praises for putting in the work to improve his skating and conditioning which led to massive improvements in his game, but for some reason fox always gets a pass on these things and the lack of improvement in these areas. I'm not hating on him, I just see a player with such incredible IQ and such poor physical tools that I can only imagine if his physical tools were developed more how much better he could be in an all around game. I'm sorry if that offends people, but I see a player that could be knocking on another level which is pretty special, I just dont see that evolution happening.

Stop wasting air with this Lindgren suppresses fox shit. It's tiring. You act like fox would be putting up karlsson offensive numbers from 23 if Lindgren disappeared. The fox Lindgren thing isn't just by msg, fox has made some pretty specific comments about lindgren, much more direct then the fluff answers he gives in his normal interviews.

I named karlsson and leetch as quick examples, there are decades of that stuff to supplement it. Stop acting like they are one of situations.

It's funny you say Lindgren is so bad and then say he's going to get paid 4m+, weird how that works. My entire point with Lindgren is he is what he is and it's usually the same thing. The good and the bad. There's significant value in a guy that can play 20 mins a night on good teams. What he is today is absolutely his peak, but it's one he probably maintains for 4 ish years AND ideally it is suited for a 2nd or 3rd pair role, but given the nyr structure there is no real option to replace him right now on the top pair. That could change but I would rather have Lindgren back next year then go forward with magic beans.

You're being disingenuous talking about other teams in the league and their top pairings. Most try to split up the d depth or simply don't have very good/deep defense units. The ones that do usually have a chance to win. Nyr can absolutely improve their d personnel, no one is arguing that they can't. If they improve it and it pushing Lindgren down the lineup then that is a win for the org, but all I've been saying is that people acting and saying Lindgren is not an NHL defenseman are going overboard and dismissing what he DOES bring simply because they are frustrated with what he DOESNT bring. I actually that reflects more on the other personnel than it does Lindgren bc everyone knows what Lindgren is and he maintains that, but everyone also expects/expected more from miller, trouba, and whoever Schneider is paired with....