Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

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Roster Moves
- buyout Goodrow
- Lindgren (RFA), to MIN for Ryan Hartman
- Kakko, 30th overall, and Jones to OTT for Chychrun
- Trouba (1.5m retained) to DET for Olli Maata, 3rd round pick

UFA Signings
Jonathan Marchessault - 4 x 5.5 aav
Jalen Chatfield - 2 x 1.75 aav
Chad Ruhwedel - 1 x 850k


RFA signings
Braden Schneider - 2 x 2.4 aav
*Alexis Lafreniere - 8 x 7.75 aav
*Igor Shesterkin - 8 x 9.5 aav


LINEUP

Artemi Panarin - Mika Zibanejad - Jonathan Marchessault
Chris Kreider - Vincent Trocheck - Alexis Lafreniere
Brett Berard/Brennan Othmann - Filip Chytil - Ryan Hartman
Will Cuylle - Adam Edstrom - Jimmy Vesey
Matt Rempe

Jakub Chychrun - Adam Fox
K'Andre Miller - Braden Schneider
Olli Maata - Jalen Chatfield
Chad Ruhwedel

Igor Shesterkin
Jonathan Quick
 
Roster Moves
- buyout Goodrow
- Lindgren (RFA), to MIN for Ryan Hartman
- Kakko, 30th overall, and Jones to OTT for Chychrun
- Trouba (1.5m retained) to DET for Olli Maata, 3rd round pick

UFA Signings
Jonathan Marchessault - 4 x 5.5 aav
Jalen Chatfield - 2 x 1.75 aav
Chad Ruhwedel - 1 x 850k

RFA signings
Braden Schneider - 2 x 2.4 aav
*Alexis Lafreniere - 8 x 7.75 aav
*Igor Shesterkin - 8 x 9.5 aav


LINEUP

Artemi Panarin - Mika Zibanejad - Jonathan Marchessault
Chris Kreider - Vincent Trocheck - Alexis Lafreniere
Brett Berard/Brennan Othmann - Filip Chytil - Ryan Hartman
Will Cuylle - Adam Edstrom - Jimmy Vesey
Matt Rempe

Jakub Chychrun - Adam Fox
K'Andre Miller - Braden Schneider
Olli Maata - Jalen Chatfield
Chad Ruhwedel

Igor Shesterkin
Jonathan Quick
Haha at Jonathan Marchessault getting 5.5M on a 4 year deal.
 
These numbers are essentially meaningless without context considering in almost all normal game states they are together. If you're going to actually do this you should only look at the following:

1. Fox with Lindgren
2. Fox without Lindgren in games Lindgren did not play
3. Lindgren without Fox in games Fox did not play

You're going to run into sample size issues though.

The numbers may still be one-sided. I don't know. But just doing it like that you're going to make it look worse by account of Fox being on the ice extra late in games when losing and Lindgren on the ice extra when winning and the like. Lindgren will also have a reasonable amount of time away from Fox on shifts that become 5v5 due to a penalty expiring when they are already stuck in their own zone.

Trouba/Lindgren played 154 mins together this year on the PK. They played 47 mins together at 5v5. They have a 29.6 CF%. But how many of those 47 minutes are right after a PK which is why they were on the ice together in the first place? That is a situation where you cannot gain 0 CF (They'll change when the puck goes out) but you can only get CA.

I agree. I'm not sure either why we'd consider all of the small buckets of time that Lindgren gets post-PK and Fox gets post-PP. A minute of that per game for each adds up to a couple hundred minutes or more over the span of a few years, and the deviation will extend in polar opposite directions. It's not surprising to see the numbers reflect that.

Lindgren played 133 minutes with Gus in November when Fox was hurt. That pairing was 50 CF%, 57 GF%, 48 xGF%, 59 HDCF%. They got played as the 2nd pairing, as Miller and Trouba took the lead in 5v5 TOI with Fox out. I think that's important because Lindgren was put in a 2nd pairing role here and did pretty well, as did Gus. Also consider that these were two guys who never played with each other before, and Gus did not really PK so none of this sample size would have been time getting pinned in the DZ after a PK.

There's a huge gap between "top pairing defender" and "terrible". Lindgren is not either of those. Ironically, the stretch with Gus is the longest stretch he's had with anyone else besides Fox in years, and it went pretty well. He means a lot to the team and I think his terrible-ness has been overstated. This was also the worst rated year of his career by a lot. I'm aware of the dreadful EH player chart. It's not like it's a pattern. I think he's likely either a solid 2nd pairing guy or a very good 3rd pairing role guy, and he's done reasonably well playing above his station with Fox until this year. The injury concerns are more valid than this bogus claim he stinks.
 
I personally don't think fox was as good this year as in past years and the pair as a whole wasn't as good as normal. I think part of that is the system change and deployment by the new coaching staff. I think one fundamental thing that I believe different than most here is that fox is an elite player against certain teams or within certain types of games, but he doesn't have the individual elite SKILL to stand out as much in tight games. He does have the smarts, but he doesn't have that skating or shot that just makes him a step above.

I said a couple years ago that fox will be like the defensive version of taveras in that they are both high effort skaters, nothing is fluid for either. It takes them both more energy to do what other more fluid skaters can do. I fear a similar dip as age will start to highlight the lack of skating skills.

Regarding Lindgren, I think you take my comments as if I am a Lindgren apologist, I'm not. I think he's a 2nd or 3rd pair d man that happens to have a unique relationship with our #1 d man who has absolute confidence and comfort with him. That is why I referenced methot, beukeboom, and the like. Players that just made the elite players more comfortable even if the player in question isn't an elite player.

I 100% acknowledge that Lindgren is not a great puck player, he is an oven mitt guy. My point was just that Lindgren has proven in multiple NHL seasons that he can play 20 mins a game. Not everyone can do that. So many people are just dismissing that though. Can Lindgren play his 20 mins in a different way that doesn't involve 1st pair rotation, sure! Lindgren could eat time on a 3rd pair and pk. People are acting like he isn't an NHL defenseman, and asserting that he's worth 2m a year. It's ridiculous. There is a space between that hyperbole and recent usage that Lindgren can slot into BUT the issue to me remains who takes that role with fox? It's easy to say get rid of player x, but in a 32 team league it isn't always easy to find an actual upgrade to player x or we convince ourselves that there is a better option. I just don't see that option. If it's presents itself I'm completely open to it.

At the end of the day I'm just not sure that Lindgren "dragged fox down." I'm not sure that fox himself was as good as he has been recently and this goes to my earlier comment about taveras and the skating. He's 26 now which isn't old by any stretch, but it is a point that the heavy legs can start to affect players that are not fleet a foot of they do not commit to excessive training (taveras did and it's why he stayed elite as long as he did). Fox has never been a top defensive player and this year more than ever I saw horrific reads and guess plays by Fox on the rush that led to goals against, guessing on plays is another aspect of the skating issue. It may sound ridiculous to some to criticize a player that just put up 73 pts in 72 games, but there is a little bit of the panarin ish torching of bad teams in fox's game, along with some of the struggle in tight games thing since he doesn't have the physical separation tools that others have. He is still obviously an elite player offensively but I really believe people overlook fox's misgivings defensively, that's why I think the partner for fox is so important and you can't just toss the wrong player there and assume it will be an improvement simply because they aren't Lindgren.

So you think Fox regressed this year and Lindgren was the same guy he always was? Based off of what exactly?

Everything for Fox under the hood is really no different than it normally is and this was the first year where he was a PPG+ which is a f***ing feat when your D partner is Lindgren and you have one line that creates anything that resembles consistent offense (so no, thats not entirely Lindgren's fault, but he's always suppressed Fox's numbers 5v5.)

Also Fox had 29 points in 33 games vs playoff competition this year. Thats hardly feasting on bad competition. Also saying that Fox has never been a top defensive player is just a laughable statement. If he isn't a top defensive player, then no one in the league is.

Lindgren being 26 doesn't really matter, he's taken way more punishment than the average 26 year old has taken and its clearly had an impact on his game. There is no special connection or bond or fit here, thats all stuff thats been drummed up by MSG and the fact that they played together at the NTDP. He's performed better with other partners including guys who are seen by the majority as bottom pair defensemen. The fact that Karlsson had a defensive D as a partner 10 years ago and Leetch had one even longer ago is irrelevant. The game has changed since then and if you can't aid transition at all, you really shouldn't be playing top 4 minutes.

You claim not to be a Lindgren apologist, but you're making a ton of excuses for him since apparently everyone (Fox, the forwards, the system, God) is at fault for his lack of performance but Lindgren himself. I don't think that every single problem that this team has is tied to Lindgren, but he is the biggest one. If you want to tell me that he can't be blamed for how he's used then fine, thats fair. Thats not a reason to keep him and there really isnt a single compelling reason to do so. You may think he has more value than 2 million, but he sure as hell isn't worth the 4+ million he's going to make going forward which is way too much to be paying a guy who, at best, is a bottom pairing defenseman/PK guy and the ultimate strike against that is that he will never be deployed as if here were to stay.

Look at the other top D in the league, which of those guys plays with someone who is on par with or worse than Lindgren? Dahlin might be the only one and thats partially why the Sabres haven't made the playoffs in 900 years.
 
because outside of ox we have a bunch of d men that wear oven mitts when they play hockey and cant handle the pill. just because that is true doesn't mean it make sense to trash lindgren. there are other, more finacially responsible and sensible places to open slots in the pairings with trouba (do they have the stones to buy him out, probably not) and gusto not returning.

I would dare say miller was the most disappointing d man as the playoffs continued because others basically gave you what you would expect from them and miller has the raw tools to excel, but he seemed to mentally wear down towards the end of the carolina series and it just got worse for him through the florida series.

Have you looked up the fox trouba pairing xgoals%, corsi, and fenwick?? They were fantastic for the 11.8 mins that they were on the ice together!!! Must be something there!

BTW Fox played a total of 46.7 minutes without lindgren this playoffs. His fancy numbers were the best when he was playing with gustafsson.

If anyone thinks fox/gustafsson or fox/trouba should be pair together in the future then they should stop watching the sport...

This is entirely where stat pages fail.


and most of it was during the pk when he was paired with toruba...


2 million? are you kidding? my goodness this is getting ridiculous
What do you think lindgren is worth?

It’s kind of moot. If he signs for 6 now he’d be 29 when it was up. He’d likely get another 8 here taking him to 37, or 7 from someone else taking him to 36. That’s if he didn’t get hurt or have some other career affecting issue in the 6 years. If he signed for 8 he’d be 31 when it ended with two extra years guaranteed against injury or other career affecting incident, and could sign here OR elsewhere for another 6 years taking him to 37… depending on the AAV, taking 8 years might be more attractive and safer.

Let’s stop pretending though that either of us has any certainty or crystal ball. They are both possibilities whether you like it or not.
Id bet a substantial sum he doesnt sign his next contract here for 8 years. I’ll set the over/under at 6.5 and HAMMER the under
 
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If McDavid wants to do a hometown discount and sign with the Rangers for $12.45M AAV for 7 years, do we even do it at this point after this ghosting performance?
 
I’m not a big proponent of intangibles, but Lindgren absolutely brings those in a way that I am willing to believe makes a tangible difference in the locker room. Watching that guy take the beatings he does and keep on ticking is inspirational as a fan and I guarantee you it’s the same as a teammate.

Should he be playing on the top pair? Definitely not. Should he be getting a long term, $4M+ contract? Definitely not.

Does he bring several qualities to the table that would be a net positive on a bottom pairing making a typical bottom pairing salary? Definitely yes in my opinion.
If these bozos can’t be inspired by Igor battling his heart out and doing everything save for dying on the ice, they can f*** off.

they’re just not good enough. Intangibles or not, which once again, if they can’t find the inspiration with what their goalie does, f*** em.

I’m not watching Henrik’s career play out again. Get this guy some f***ing help
 
Edmonton got goalied in game 1 and last night was just an abomination of a hockey game where nobody had any chances.

They're playing Florida a lot closer than we did the last four games.
 
So you think Fox regressed this year and Lindgren was the same guy he always was? Based off of what exactly?

Everything for Fox under the hood is really no different than it normally is and this was the first year where he was a PPG+ which is a f***ing feat when your D partner is Lindgren and you have one line that creates anything that resembles consistent offense (so no, thats not entirely Lindgren's fault, but he's always suppressed Fox's numbers 5v5.)

Also Fox had 29 points in 33 games vs playoff competition this year. Thats hardly feasting on bad competition. Also saying that Fox has never been a top defensive player is just a laughable statement. If he isn't a top defensive player, then no one in the league is.

Lindgren being 26 doesn't really matter, he's taken way more punishment than the average 26 year old has taken and its clearly had an impact on his game. There is no special connection or bond or fit here, thats all stuff thats been drummed up by MSG and the fact that they played together at the NTDP. He's performed better with other partners including guys who are seen by the majority as bottom pair defensemen. The fact that Karlsson had a defensive D as a partner 10 years ago and Leetch had one even longer ago is irrelevant. The game has changed since then and if you can't aid transition at all, you really shouldn't be playing top 4 minutes.

You claim not to be a Lindgren apologist, but you're making a ton of excuses for him since apparently everyone (Fox, the forwards, the system, God) is at fault for his lack of performance but Lindgren himself. I don't think that every single problem that this team has is tied to Lindgren, but he is the biggest one. If you want to tell me that he can't be blamed for how he's used then fine, thats fair. Thats not a reason to keep him and there really isnt a single compelling reason to do so. You may think he has more value than 2 million, but he sure as hell isn't worth the 4+ million he's going to make going forward which is way too much to be paying a guy who, at best, is a bottom pairing defenseman/PK guy and the ultimate strike against that is that he will never be deployed as if here were to stay.

Look at the other top D in the league, which of those guys plays with someone who is on par with or worse than Lindgren? Dahlin might be the only one and thats partially why the Sabres haven't made the playoffs in 900 years.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Lindgren personally (he stinks but is overhated imo), the biggest factor for me in upgrading on him is saving Fox the punishment he deals with playing with him. Every other team in the league goes out of their way to add a legit partner for their star defenseman. except us, who saw that he played with a guy when they were 18 and never thought to change it up. If adding a top 4 defensemen leads to Lindgren being gone or on the 3rd pair, that's a win for the Rangers and we'll be a better team for it.

At first I thought "ok, we'll have three good lines and that's just the way that one shook out."

*Same garbage third line*

5th times the charm!
 
We scored 1 goal at five on five through the last 3 games of the series, and the first thing Brooks wrote is we need more toffness.
It's not toughness, exactly, but it isn't skill either. We have plenty of skill. The issue is that some of our skilled players wilt when things get tougher.

We need more players who can get to the middle and score dirty goals around the net, guys who are stronger on the cycle and in board battles.
 
It's not toughness, exactly, but it isn't skill either. We have plenty of skill. The issue is that some of our skilled players wilt when things get tougher.

We need more players who can get to the middle and score dirty goals around the net, guys who are stronger on the cycle and in board battles.
Brooks doesn't want cycling and board battles, he wants face punching. He'll advocate for terrible players the whole offseason like he always does.
 
Edmonton got goalied in game 1 and last night was just an abomination of a hockey game where nobody had any chances.

They're playing Florida a lot closer than we did the last four games.
I thought last night they got steamrolled.

What did they have 7 shots through 2 periods i think.

The game wasnt close last night.

Game 1 yeah they should have won.
 
Larry with a doozie. And he isn't wrong.

Screenshot 2024-06-11 073437.png
 
Roster Moves
- buyout Goodrow
- Lindgren (RFA), to MIN for Ryan Hartman
- Kakko, 30th overall, and Jones to OTT for Chychrun
- Trouba (1.5m retained) to DET for Olli Maata, 3rd round pick

UFA Signings
Jonathan Marchessault - 4 x 5.5 aav
Jalen Chatfield - 2 x 1.75 aav
Chad Ruhwedel - 1 x 850k

RFA signings
Braden Schneider - 2 x 2.4 aav
*Alexis Lafreniere - 8 x 7.75 aav
*Igor Shesterkin - 8 x 9.5 aav


LINEUP

Artemi Panarin - Mika Zibanejad - Jonathan Marchessault
Chris Kreider - Vincent Trocheck - Alexis Lafreniere
Brett Berard/Brennan Othmann - Filip Chytil - Ryan Hartman
Will Cuylle - Adam Edstrom - Jimmy Vesey
Matt Rempe

Jakub Chychrun - Adam Fox
K'Andre Miller - Braden Schneider
Olli Maata - Jalen Chatfield
Chad Ruhwedel

Igor Shesterkin
Jonathan Quick
big woof on that Chychrun trade
 
If Florida rips through Edmonton in 4 games, like I think they might, I wonder how that makes the Rangers look? Probably no change.

As I see it so far, we are better than Edmonton. It's almost as if the Panthers are just really really good. Haha
 
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I thought last night they got steamrolled.

What did they have 7 shots through 2 periods i think.

The game wasnt close last night.

Game 1 yeah they should have won.
Something like that.....If I recall correctly, they didn't have a shot the first 12 minutes of the game (or thereabouts).
 
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