Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[Machinehead]

That was two years ago man! There is no reason to not believe or not have hope that the potential Cuylle / Chytil / Kak line could be serious.

Cuylle and Kak mesh even on a different level than Kak and Chytil mesh. It has the makings of a perfect third line which honestly has second line type potential IMO.

I just don't see who's scoring on that line.

I want my third line not be a fourth line.

I would solve this be re-jiggering the lines entirely and spreading the offense out more, but realistically, the Rangers are going to go with the same top six until the sun burns out, so that's probably our third line.

 

[Rongomania]

I just don't see who's scoring on that line.

I want my third line not be a fourth line.

I would solve this be re-jiggering the lines entirely and spreading the offense out more, but realistically, the Rangers are going to go with the same top six until the sun burns out, so that's probably our third line.

It’s a new season. You thought Laf was lost last year too.

I’ve briefly mentioned this at some point and it won’t happen because of the success they’ve had but.. Chytil back between Bread and Laf and Troch between Cuylle and Kak. Either way I am excited to see Chytil back and staying healthy. His health and growth can have a major positive offensive effect on this team, especially Kak.

 

[TGWL]

Ok, but you still have to admit the rest of that list were horrid rangers except for Cuylle, sometimes Goodrow and the incredibly one dimensional vatrano. Kak also has a stronger all around game than every single one of those players. Which is why waiting on him and having some hope here shouldn’t be deemed absurd. He’s not a lost offensive cause at 23 I just don’t believe that.

I don't think anybody is going to argue that the list of rotating wingers for RW1 was viewed as Ideal. That's just a separate discussion.

But at some point an all around game becomes extremely over-hyped and useless if you're not producing, especially when you're overall game isn't a complete shut down center against other top tier players. At the end of the day, we need more from Kakko. We need him to be a contribution player when he's on the rink, whether that's from him or his linemates.

I also don't think anybody believes having some sort of hope is seen as absurd. The argument is based on how he is currently playing and what he still isn't doing. Fans point elsewhere for the blame but Kakko hasn't done anything different and continues to be the same player for us.

 

[NYR Viper]

Uhhh...no?

How would you even come to that conclusion? I just said that Kreider and Zibanejad produce over 3 goals per game at even strength away from Kakko. You are aware that a RW is on the ice when that's happening, right?

w/ Blake Wheeler - 3.53 goals per 60
w/ Patrick Kane - 2.92 goals per 60
w/ Jack Roslovic - 3.06 goals per 60
w/ Frank Vatrano - 2.67 goals per 60
w/ Dryden Hunt - 2.54 goals per 60
w/ Will Cuylle - 4.28 goals per 60
w/ Barclay Goodrow - 3.39 goals per 60

Who else is there?

Bruh, they're scoring with Barclay Goodrow at RW.

I get the criticisms of Kreider and Zibanejad, particularly Zibanejad, but you can't say they don't score. Yes, that includes even strength. It's simply contrary to reality.

There's two guys they couldn't score with in the last three years. Vladimir Tarasenko in 118 minutes (and I crucified Gallant for using that line), and Kaapo Kakko in 705(!!!) minutes, by far their most common RW over that time period.

He's basically the RW on that line since Quinn left, that line sucks when he's on it, and pretty much only sucks when he's on it. That's why the team demotes him every season.

We're not talking about the fact that he's 23 and has upside. This is moving the goalposts.

In complete fairness to Kakko there is a pretty clear trend of players who play well with Kreider and Zibanejad. They need to play well on the rush. Kakko does not. It's the same exact reason he doesn't play well with Panarin. Kakko needs to be able to work below the hash marks and create chances down low. Kreider and Zibanejad are allergic to this type of offense generation. If you take that context in to account, it's really no surprise they don't play well together.

 

[Rongomania]

I don't think anybody is going to argue that the list of rotating wingers for RW1 was viewed as Ideal. I think that's just a separate discussion.

But at some point an all around game becomes extremely over-hyped and useless if you're not producing, especially when you're overall game isn't a complete shut down center against against other top tier players. At the end of the day, we need more from Kakko. We need him to be a contribution player when he's on the rink, whether that's from him or his linemates.

I also don't think anybody believes having some sort of hope is seen as absurd. The argument is based on how he is currently playing and what he still isn't doing. Fans point elsewhere for the blame but Kakko hasn't done anything different and continues to be the same player for us.

I agree that the production has been underwhelming, I just don’t think the onus rests entirely upon his shoulders. I’ve moved past that, I have high hopes for him this season. We will just have to wait and see here. Again.

 

[NYR Viper]

I just don't see who's scoring on that line.

I want my third line not be a fourth line.

I would solve this be re-jiggering the lines entirely and spreading the offense out more, but realistically, the Rangers are going to go with the same top six until the sun burns out, so that's probably our third line.

Chytil had 22 goals, playing 3C at age 23. Kakko had 18 goals at age 21 in that same season on the same line. Cuylle just scored 13 goals in his rookie season playing 3/4LW. I mean, I realize they may not be a 'sexy' line but if they got 50g from their 3rd line, mainly at 5v5, is that such bad production?

 

[Rongomania]

Chytil had 22 goals, playing 3C at age 23. Kakko had 18 goals at age 21 in that same season on the same line. Cuylle just scored 13 goals in his rookie season playing 3/4LW. I mean, I realize they may not be a 'sexy' line but if they got 50g from their 3rd line, mainly at 5v5, is that such bad production?

To think that those three couldn’t possibly grow together is honestly absurd. If Chytil is healthy I am expecting big things from line 3 and I don’t think that’s out of line at all.

 

[EdJovanovski]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1824107089868009981

Why are these scumbags randomly mocking us!

 

[Machinehead]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1824107089868009981

Why are these scumbags randomly mocking us!

Shows what they know. Rats are our national animal.

 

[bhamill]

Mika scored at a 3rd line rate at EV last season 12 goals.
Last year Kakko, in his 22 yo season, actually scored as many EV goals as Mika IN 20 LESS GAMES, while being a black hole on assists. Which makes sense as the type of game Kakko needs to play to get assists is not the game Chris and Mika will play. No one else he played any significant time with with had ANY offensive chops.
Kreids, no great shakes at EV, but decent at 19 goals. A whole 7 more than Kakko in 21 more games. Extrapolated to 82 games, Kakko would have had 16 goals... 3 behind Chris at EV.

I know who I would hold to a higher standard, who I'd hold more responsible for that trio's lack of 5v5 production.... (hint: its not the now 23 year old.)

For comparison Laf scored 26 goals at EV, Troch 13, Pan 38.

 

[LOFIN]

In complete fairness to Kakko there is a pretty clear trend of players who play well with Kreider and Zibanejad. They need to play well on the rush. Kakko does not. It's the same exact reason he doesn't play well with Panarin. Kakko needs to be able to work below the hash marks and create chances down low. Kreider and Zibanejad are allergic to this type of offense generation. If you take that context in to account, it's really no surprise they don't play well together.

Which is pretty bad, because that run & gun rush style works great during the regular season when you are playing shitty teams and shitty goalies. Not so much in the playoffs.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Crazy how it's always Kakko playing with the guys who can't score. Must be the unluckiest guy in the world.

I’m not even defending kakko here but if you play on NYR 3/4 line you’re definitely playing with guys who can’t score lmao

 

[Rongomania]

I’m not even defending kakko here but if you play on NYR 3/4 line you’re definitely playing with guys who can’t score lmao

Defending Kakko by accident is actually impressive and hilarious.

Kakko for Garland plz!

 

[Machinehead]

I’m not even defending kakko here but if you play on NYR 3/4 line you’re definitely playing with guys who can’t score lmao

Right, except for the part where he's been mostly in our top six.

 

[bhamill]

Right, except for the part where he's been mostly in our top six.

With two players who don't play a style complimentary to Kakko's game (and vice versa) and don't score much more (in Mika's case at a LOWER rate) than him at even strength...
Extrapolated to a full season of games: Kreids with 19 EV goals, Kakko with 16 and Mika bringing up the rear with 12.
The only two offensively talented players he played with were a bad fit, and really not THAT talented in scoring off of the power play...

 

[Rongomania]

With two players who don't play a style complimentary to Kakko's game (and vice versa) and don't score much more (in Mika's case at a LOWER rate) than him at even strength...
Extrapolated to a full season of games: Kreids with 19 EV goals, Kakko with 16 and Mika bringing up the rear with 12.
The only two offensively talented players he played with were a bad fit, and really not THAT talented in scoring off of the power play...

These are the kind of numbers which will come back to bite us if we trade Kak. The kid will immediately be playing all situations on whichever team he goes to as well as top line minutes. It’s not crazy to think he can double production almost instantly. I don’t see last year as a regression year, it was a whole lot of bad luck for that kid. I’m happy he bet on himself with the immediate signing of that deal. I want to see him thrive this year and make Drury have a world of tough decisions at seasons end.

This is the best case scenario for us concerning his play.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Right, except for the part where he's been mostly in our top six.

Whatever the issues are are 99% Zibanejad fault

 

[Rongomania]

Right, except for the part where he's been mostly in our top six.

‘Mostly been’ sure I guess, pretty positive he was being bounced back and forth. They get broken up pretty quickly if I’m recalling correctly here. Not awesome for confidence when you’re talking about a 23 year old trying to figure it out.

 

[UnSandvich]

The Cuylle-Brod-Kakko line actually scored at a quite good rate last season. 4.14 GF/60 compared to 2.37 GA/60

 

[kovazub94]

Chytil had 22 goals, playing 3C at age 23. Kakko had 18 goals at age 21 in that same season on the same line. Cuylle just scored 13 goals in his rookie season playing 3/4LW. I mean, I realize they may not be a 'sexy' line but if they got 50g from their 3rd line, mainly at 5v5, is that such bad production?

To think that those three couldn’t possibly grow together is honestly absurd. If Chytil is healthy I am expecting big things from line 3 and I don’t think that’s out of line at all.

In 2022-2023 the Kids Line was our best line on many nights including playoffs (albeit in sheltered minutes and lesser competition) The problem why there was a pushback here even in light of such performance was a rightful concern that as a line they will continue to see lesser minutes while Zibanejad, Kreider and Panarin were still on the team and would not be relegated to 3rd line minutes. Laviolette tried to address it from the start of 2023-2024 by splitting Kids Line and it looked promising. So while Lafreniere move worked, Chytil got injured, Zibanejad’s line with Kakko didn’t produce and he soon got injured for an extended time as well.

Move the calendar to the start of 2024-2025 season and there’s a chance (good or not decide for yourself) that both Chytil and Kakko regain their old form (and more?) that could make the Rangers a very deep forward group. But would it help them get top-6 minutes? Probably still not unless Zibanejad or Trocheck are failing miserably - much worse than Zibanejad did last year.

 

[Rongomania]

The Cuylle-Brod-Kakko line actually scored at a quite good rate last season. 4.14 GF/60 compared to 2.37 GA/60

Omg my brain wanted me to forget Brodz altogether. Maybe he was a little more offensively aware than say Wennberg.. But geeze man if we’re loving on JB’s play, that is a problem. Chytil was sorely missed this season that is just undeniable.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Defending Kakko by accident is actually impressive and hilarious.

Kakko for Garland plz!

Kakko's trade value is another underwhelming young player like Kakko, not someone that is a consistent NHL player.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1824107089868009981

Why are these scumbags randomly mocking us!

First response:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1824111975670198327

 

[IDvsEGO]

These are the kind of numbers which will come back to bite us if we trade Kak. The kid will immediately be playing all situations on whichever team he goes to as well as top line minutes. It’s not crazy to think he can double production almost instantly. I don’t see last year as a regression year, it was a whole lot of bad luck for that kid. I’m happy he bet on himself with the immediate signing of that deal. I want to see him thrive this year and make Drury have a world of tough decisions at seasons end.

This is the best case scenario for us concerning his play.

Ive been making this point for months now. Its why Ive basically quit the board because no one seems to want to admit this.
They want kakko gone and are willing to sell for pennies.

 

[noncents]

continues not to make sense why machinehead is viewed as some beacon of unassailable insight on this board.

in what world does a kid score 40 points basically all at even strength in his age 21 season in the NHL and yet these hyperexaggerated claims that he cannot under any circumstances be relied upon to produce offense ring out unchecked?

it's so bizarre that in a discourse usually predicated on chance creation, with kakko there's only room for goals for. no acknowledgement of differences in play style with high paid and high profile linemates, certainly no acknowledgement of last years injury. just the constant refrain he sucks he sucks he sucks. and of course any success is sublimated to the old "weeelll you eXpEcT that from a 2oa." bizarre.