Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[80shockeywasbuns]

Berard mika kakko could probably be a really good shutdown 3rd line

 

[Rongomania]

I mean, I guess.

I think if you have a line of Cuylle, probably Chytil, and Kakko versus a line of you, me, and @EdJovanovski, we probably score before they do.

Oh gawd.

 

[noncents]

hurr durr dump kakko back on our bullshit

 

[haohmaru]

Berard is a better prospect than you're giving him credit for. He could easily take a spot from Cuylle and he could easily beat out Othmann. That would put him amongst our six best wingers.

He's way ahead Perreault right now for no reason other than their ages. I would be very surprised to see Perreault on the Rangers before 2025-26.

Oh, I don't think Perreault is an option for this year at all. I was talking big picture.

Berard isn't pushing anyone out of the top six and, while he might be a little ahead of Othmann he's also got some drawbacks - size, draft pedigree, role in the bottom six. I don't see him knocking out Kakko either.

His best hope is to beat out Othmann out of camp and I think he's got work to do there even if some of is just bias/perception of who he really is.

 

[Vitto79]

Oh, I don't think Perreault is an option for this year at all. I was talking big picture.

Berard isn't pushing anyone out of the top six and, while he might be a little ahead of Othmann he's also got some drawbacks - size, draft pedigree, role in the bottom six. I don't see him knocking out Kakko either.

His best hope is to beat out Othmann out of camp and I think he's got work to do there even if some of is just bias/perception of who he really is.

I do think there’s an open spot if a Othmaan or Berard play well in Camp

Waiving a Brodz isn’t a big deal he would clear like last year anyway

 

[Synergy27]

Delete.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

Berard mika kakko could probably be a really good shutdown 3rd line

Unpopular opinion for management. Mika’s 5v5 game is best suited in this role. 3C

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I mean, I guess.

I think if you have a line of Cuylle, probably Chytil, and Kakko versus a line of you, me, and @EdJovanovski, we probably score before they do.

Not if @EdJovanovski is the one shooting.

 

[Rongomania]

hurr durr dump kakko back on our bullshit

Yeah he’s a worthless 23 year old.

Like everyone forgot he was the absolute catalyst in that sweep game against Wash.

There’s another timeline where he doesn’t score there and maybe we blow that game. Not like it was the most important game, but that goal he scored was a damn important one.

Also if Wennberg wasn’t a C he should’ve been scratched instead of Kakko. It was infuriating watching Cuylle/Kak flank that offense-less slug. He was a better Bonino. That is all.

 

[Machinehead]

Crazy how it's always Kakko playing with the guys who can't score. Must be the unluckiest guy in the world.

 

[NYR Viper]

Crazy how it's always Kakko playing with the guys who can't score. Must be the unluckiest guy in the world.

Before last year, I recall him setting guys up regularly who didn't finish what were Grade A scoring chances. I'm not sure he ever sniffs a ton of goals but I truly think he can become a pretty good playmaker.

 

[TGWL]

Unpopular opinion for management. Mika’s 5v5 game is best suited in this role. 3C

Unpopular opinion, Mika's 5 on 5 game is best suited for my Inline league.

Yeah he’s a worthless 23 year old.

Like everyone forgot he was the absolute catalyst in that sweep game against Wash.

There’s another timeline where he doesn’t score there and maybe we blow that game. Not like it was the most important game, but that goal he scored was a damn important one.

Also if Wennberg wasn’t a C he should’ve been scratched instead of Kakko. It was infuriating watching Cuylle/Kak flank that offense-less slug. He was a better Bonino. That is all.

They both could have sat in the box and it wouldn't have changed anything.

 

[Rongomania]

Unpopular opinion, Mika's 5 on 5 game is best suited for my Inline league.


They both could have sat in the box and it wouldn't have changed anything.

Yeah, we sadly just weren't beating them.

We also didn’t have a complete roster. Healthy Chytil and Vesey, I think it would have been a different series.

It is what it is. I’m onto the 2025 playoffs.

Crazy how it's always Kakko playing with the guys who can't score. Must be the unluckiest guy in the world.

Do you have eyes that work? Nick Bonino. The 5v5 MONSTER Mika. Alex ‘what is scoring?’ Wennberg.

Come awn.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Crazy how it's always Kakko playing with the guys who can't score. Must be the unluckiest guy in the world.

He is unironically

 

[TGWL]

Yeah, we sadly just weren't beating them.

We also didn’t have a complete roster. Healthy Chytil and Vesey, I think it would have been a different series.

It is what it is. I’m onto the 2025 playoffs.



Do you have eyes that work? Nick Bonino. The 5v5 MONSTER Mika. Alex ‘what is scoring?’ Wennberg.

Come awn.

Vesey had a terrible playoffs before getting injured. If healthy, I'm not convinced that changes anything from how he was already playing. Losing Chytil hurts, but we didn't have him through-out the season, so it's difficult to really say how much that hurt, unless we were expecting the player who was at one point on pace for 30-35 goals the following year, before hitting a brick wall in mid-Feb.

Healthy Chytil aside, we're playing the ranking of suckitude here. I mean take your pick on who should have been benched, who hurt us more, or who did absolutely nothing (Not talking about our top players who were obviously our keys to winning if they got going), but I don't think it really changes much.

 

[Machinehead]

Do you have eyes that work? Nick Bonino. The 5v5 MONSTER Mika. Alex ‘what is scoring?’ Wennberg.

Come awn.

When Zibanejad and Kreider are together at 5v5 over the last three years, they score 2.91 goals per 60 minutes.

When Kakko is their RW, that number plummets to 2.04 goals per 60, and rises to 3.25 in all 5v5 minutes without him.

He's played 328 minutes with Artemi Panarin. It's not nothing. 2.01 goals per 60. Panarin generates 3.28 goals per 60 without him.

It's extremely disingenuous to say all of his teammates have been bad. He keeps ending up with "bad" teammates because he keeps getting demoted. He keeps getting demoted because nobody can score when he's on the ice.

He played 248 minutes last year with Zibanejad and 81 with Bonino. Literally his two most common linemates in 2023-24 were Kreider and Zibanejad. It's such an agenda. Kakko has frankly been a staple in our top six, except for after the deadline where we've realized that sucks two deadlines in a row. At least this year we went got the f***ing replacement before the season.

It's an objective fact that Kakko tanks goals for and we can pretty clearly isolate him as the variable in almost every combo.

 

[Rongomania]

When Zibanejad and Kreider are together at 5v5 over the last three years, they score 2.91 goals per 60 minutes.

When Kakko is their RW, that number plummets to 2.04 goals per 60, and rises to 3.25 in all 5v5 minutes without him.

He's played 328 minutes with Artemi Panarin. It's not nothing. 2.01 goals per 60. Panarin generates 3.28 goals per 60 without him.

It's extremely disingenuous to say all of his teammates have been bad. He keeps ending up with "bad" teammates because he keeps getting demoted. He keeps getting demoted because nobody can score when he's on the ice.

He played 248 minutes last year with Zibanejad and 81 with Bonino. Literally his two most common linemates in 2023-24 were Kreider and Zibanejad. It's such an agenda. Kakko has frankly been a staple in our top six, except for after the deadline where we've realized that sucks two deadlines in a row. At least this year we went got the f***ing replacement before the season.

It's an objective fact that Kakko tanks goals for and we can pretty clearly isolate him as the variable in almost every combo.

Kreider and Zibanejad also play almost every second of our special teams together. They have the ‘mojo’ if you will, working in their favor as a twosome. So much time together. There is something to be said there. All of the other RW’s they’ve played with since Buch I’m sure have shitty numbers as well with them 5v5 only.

Am I happy with Kaks production at 23? No. Do I still see upside in a 23 year old who has shown some great flashes of the player we want and NEED him to be? Absolutely yes.

 

[Machinehead]

Kreider and Zibanejad also play almost every second of our special teams together. They have the ‘mojo’ if you will, working in their favor as a twosome. So much time together. There is something to be said there. All of the other RW’s they’ve played with since Buch I’m sure have shitty numbers as well with them 5v5 only.

Uhhh...no?

How would you even come to that conclusion? I just said that Kreider and Zibanejad produce over 3 goals per game at even strength away from Kakko. You are aware that a RW is on the ice when that's happening, right?

w/ Blake Wheeler - 3.53 goals per 60
w/ Patrick Kane - 2.92 goals per 60
w/ Jack Roslovic - 3.06 goals per 60
w/ Frank Vatrano - 2.67 goals per 60
w/ Dryden Hunt - 2.54 goals per 60
w/ Will Cuylle - 4.28 goals per 60
w/ Barclay Goodrow - 3.39 goals per 60

Who else is there?

Bruh, they're scoring with Barclay Goodrow at RW.

I get the criticisms of Kreider and Zibanejad, particularly Zibanejad, but you can't say they don't score. Yes, that includes even strength. It's simply contrary to reality.

There's two guys they couldn't score with in the last three years. Vladimir Tarasenko in 118 minutes (and I crucified Gallant for using that line), and Kaapo Kakko in 705(!!!) minutes, by far their most common RW over that time period.

He's basically the RW on that line since Quinn left, that line sucks when he's on it, and pretty much only sucks when he's on it. That's why the team demotes him every season.

Am I happy with Kaks production at 23? No. Do I still see upside in a 23 year old who has shown some great flashes of the player we want and NEED him to be? Absolutely yes.

We're not talking about the fact that he's 23 and has upside. This is moving the goalposts.

 

[TGWL]

Kreider and Zibanejad also play almost every second of our special teams together. They have the ‘mojo’ if you will, working in their favor as a twosome. So much time together. There is something to be said there. All of the other RW’s they’ve played with since Buch I’m sure have shitty numbers as well with them 5v5 only.

Am I happy with Kaks production at 23? No. Do I still see upside in a 23 year old who has shown some great flashes of the player we want and NEED him to be? Absolutely yes.

But I think @Machinehead point was that the number jumps without Kakko. So while the list of rotating wingers isn't ideal and we often want to chuck the remote at that line, the number still increases with all those rotating wingers vs Kakko.

 

[Rongomania]

Uhhh...no?

How would you even come to that conclusion? I just said that Kreider and Zibanejad produce over 3 goals per game at even strength away from Kakko. You are aware that a RW is on the ice when that's happening, right?

w/ Blake Wheeler - 3.53 goals per 60
w/ Patrick Kane - 2.92 goals per 60
w/ Jack Roslovic - 3.06 goals per 60
w/ Frank Vatrano - 2.67 goals per 60
w/ Dryden Hunt - 2.54 goals per 60
w/ Will Cuylle - 4.28 goals per 60
w/ Barclay Goodrow - 3.39 goals per 60

Who else is there?

Bruh, they're scoring with Barclay Goodrow at RW.

I get the criticisms of Kreider and Zibanejad, particularly Zibanejad, but you can't say they don't score. Yes, that includes even strength. It's simply contrary to reality.

There's two guys they couldn't score with in the last three years. Vladimir Tarasenko in 118 minutes (and I crucified Gallant for using that line), and Kaapo Kakko in 705(!!!) minutes, by far their most common RW over that time period.

He's basically the RW on that line since Quinn left, that line sucks when he's on it, and pretty much only sucks when he's on it. That's why the team demotes him every season.

We're not talking about the fact that he's 23 and has upside. This is moving the goalposts.

Kak being 23 is worth noting as every other player on that list save for Cuylle is a vet. Not to tangent, but looking at that VERY small sample size is not fair but intriguing! Bottom line is Kaks future production is still undetermined so it’s a tad unfair to compare him to the rest of that list. I agree that the production from him is underwhelming up until this point. Staying within the goalposts brah. Also, sometimes even if a guy is good and has a bright future, he may not work with two guys who were not amazing 5v5 this past season. And just those two players in general. Those two also disappeared when it mattered most against Florida.

 

[Rongomania]

But I think @Machinehead point was that the number jumps without Kakko. So while the list of rotating wingers isn't ideal and we often want to chuck the remote at that line, the number still increases with all those rotating wingers vs Kakko.

Ok, but you still have to admit the rest of that list were horrid rangers except for Cuylle, sometimes Goodrow and the incredibly one dimensional vatrano. Kak also has a stronger all around game than every single one of those players. Which is why waiting on him and having some hope here shouldn’t be deemed absurd. He’s not a lost offensive cause at 23 I just don’t believe that.

 

[Machinehead]

Kak being 23 is worth noting as every other player on that list save for Cuylle is a vet. Not to tangent, but looking at that VERY small sample size is not fair but intriguing! Bottom line is Kaks future production is still undetermined so it’s a tad unfair to compare him to the rest of that list. I agree that the production from him is underwhelming up until this point. Staying within the goalposts brah. Also, sometimes even if a guy is good and has a bright future, he may not work with two guys who were not amazing 5v5 this past season. And those two disappeared when it mattered most against Florida.

It's not a small sample size!

Kakko has been full-time in our top-six for three years now, until he isn't because the team is forced to do something else.

You can say he's 23 and maybe he gets better, and maybe we find a line he works well on. Me, personally, I'm over him, but we can agree to disagree on that.

What you can't do is shout "Nick Bonino!" at me and say he hasn't had opportunities. He's played with everyone but Rod Gilbert at this point.

 

[Rongomania]

It's not a small sample size!

Kakko has been full-time in our top-six for three years now, until he isn't because the team is forced to do something else.

You can say he's 23 and maybe he gets better, and maybe we find a line he works well on. Me, personally, I'm over him, but we can agree to disagree on that.

What you can't do is shout "Nick Bonino!" at me and say he hasn't had opportunities. He's played with everyone but Rod Gilbert at this point.

Sorry if I was unclear but the small sample I was referring to was RE: Cuylle.

I have never shouted ‘Nick Bonino’. Don’t be a dick, I’m very clear that the combination of missing Chytil, Nick Bonino and Wennberg just wasn’t the right path. And clearly he and Zibanejad just don’t mesh. These things happen and I don’t believe those factors make him a lost cause.

Every single person on this board has been excited watching Kakko play with healthy Chytil, that’s what irks me most.

 

[Machinehead]

Sorry if I was unclear but the small sample I was referring to was RE: Cuylle.

I have never shouted ‘Nick Bonino’. Don’t be a dick, I’m very clear that the combination of missing Chytil, Nick Bonino and Wennberg just wasn’t the right path. And clearly he and Zibanejad just don’t mesh. These things happen and I don’t believe those factors make him a lost cause.

Every single person on this board has been excited watching Kakko play with healthy Chytil, that’s what irks me most.

Not me. The Kid Line makes me wanna drink bleach. Again, that's just me.

 

[Rongomania]

Not me. The Kid Line makes me wanna drink bleach. Again, that's just me.

That was two years ago man! There is no reason to not believe or not have hope that the potential Cuylle / Chytil / Kak line could be serious.

Cuylle and Kak mesh even on a different level than Kak and Chytil mesh. It has the makings of a perfect third line which honestly has second line type potential IMO.