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Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

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Savant said:
Goaltending. Goaltending carries you through the regular season. Then in the playoffs can’t hide anymore
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He didn't mention the regular season, he mentioned the Eastern Conference Finals... two win from the Cup finals. No. It's NOT just goaltending.
 
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Lindberg Cheese said:
We still have a big problem if one of our top 3 Cs have to miss significant time imo. I don’t think any of our top 9 Ws play C and can slide over allowing a decent call up. I don’t believe Brodz or Carrick are the answers. I think this will be the fatal flaw of our offseason.
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Pretty much every team has problems if one its top three centers have to miss significant time...
 
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Savant said:
Goaltending gets you into the playoffs. Once you get in the playoffs its a crap shoot
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Panarin also got us into the playoffs... 120pts.
So it doesn't matter if you suck? I guess Caps had just as good a chance to make the ECF as we did then... why didn't they? We just crapshoot lucked our way into the ECF twice in three years? Not buying it. Every team that makes the playoffs has A chance... but not an EQUAL chance. The best teams made the final 4. It was not a crapshoot.
 
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This team is a good f***ing team. Its constructed slightly better than last year's team was to start the year... and we are months out from camp still. Plus younger players will likely continue to improve. Saying you don't think this team will have the season it had last year is reasonable. Saying this team sucks is not reasonable.
 
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bhamill said:
Panarin also got us into the playoffs... 120pts.
So it doesn't matter if you suck? I guess Caps had just as good a chance to make the ECF as we did then... why didn't they? We just crapshoot lucked our way into the ECF twice in three years? Not buying it. Every team that makes the playoffs has A chance... but not an EQUAL chance. The best teams made the final 4. It was not a crapsoot.
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The best four teams made the final four this year. That is a rarity. It's rare the best team wins the Cup

Also we have seen time and time again that hot goaltending nullifies better talented goaltending in the playoffs.
 
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Savant said:
The best four teams made the final four this year. That is a rarity. It's rare the best team wins the Cup

Also we have seen time and time again that hot goaltending nullifies better talented goaltending in the playoffs.
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If you took what I said as meaning "goaltending doesn't matter" I wasn't near clear enough. Guess that's on me. I'm a person that thinks having an ace goaltender is VERY important. That being said, the goaltender is part of the team. How is Shesty being our best player in the playoffs any different from McDavid being EDM's best player? Neither player did what they did on their own and it wasn't luck. NYR are a good hockey team. Will they be a top four team again? Who knows? But they are starting the year slightly better constructed than they started last year, IMO. And its still months till camp.
 
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Shesterkybomb said:
I love Shesterkin, but if his contract ask is too high would you ask Allaire to go and work with Garand, and trade Shesterkin for a signed bonefide 1rw and a dman? Just spitballing cus I haven't dug into who needs a goalie or whatnot but say, Keller, Ingram/Vemelka and a d prospect?
I realize Allaire is walking back his duties but imo this is an area we haven't used to our advantage for all the years we've had the best goalie coach in the nhl. I have full confidence that given a guy like Ingram, or Garand that he could turn them into at the least solid goalies if not top 10 goalies. So with that, if we could save money in the goalie spot and massively improve our team it's something we should seriously consider.



Looks like I just came home from hockey.
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There is no way Allaire is turning Garand into a legit starter before training camp starts where we can trade Shesterkin. If we're talking end of the season, the value coming back won't be remotely close to that for a UFA's rights.

I'm not sure what they're going to settle on with Shesterkin, but I look at the team that just won the presidents trophy and I think to myself, this team has a lot of holes and goaltending wasn't the biggest reason they won the regular season. That was obviously reversed in the playoffs. I then look at the current roster and the prospects coming in, and even if we get top 3 goaltending through-out the regular season, I'm not sure they have enough there to win without making some major moves, which will obviously be hindered by how much Shesterkin makes. Kinda' lose-lose scenario.
 
bhamill said:
If you took what I said as meaning "goaltending doesn't matter" I wasn't near clear enough. Guess that's on me. I'm a person that thinks having an ace goaltender is VERY important. That being said, the goaltender is part of the team. How is Shesty being our best player in the playoffs any different from McDavid being EDM's best player? Neither player did what they did on their own and it wasn't luck. NYR are a good hockey team. Will they be a top four team again? Who knows? But they are starting the year slightly better constructed than they started last year, IMO. And its still months till camp.
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I don't think its a guarantee that they are constructed better. For them to be constructed better, basically you are saying that Jones is going to be outright better than Gus, and Trouba and Lindgren are going to continue their declines. I dont think any of that is a sure thing. Smith might be ok, but that line is always so dysfunctional anyway, I am not really sure how much that moves the needle. I don't think it matters how good Smith is/isn't if Zibanejad keeps trending down. IF Zibanejad is good, that line will be fine. If Zibanejad is not good its going to look bad again.

Trouba kneecapped them this off-season so this is probably the best that they could have done. I am glad they didn't lock into any silly term lengths. They are going to have to play the trade deadline game again in all likelihood. Honestly I was not high on the team for most of the year last year, and have a feeling that they could have the year that I thought they were going to have last year this year. That's why they play the games though. We will see
 
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bhamill said:
This team is a good f***ing team. Its constructed slightly better than last year's team was to start the year... and we are months out from camp still. Plus younger players will likely continue to improve. Saying you don't think this team will have the season it had last year is reasonable. Saying this team sucks is not reasonable.
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This team doesn't suck, but it does have the same fatal flaw as last season. We have almost exactly the same roster. We had massive issues with our D being able to transition the puck under the high pressure of Carolina and Florida. We would have been laughed out of the building in both of those series if not for special teams and goaltending. Maybe we can luck our way into a deep run again this season, but I wouldn't be counting on it. Everyone in our core is a year older and, outside of a select couple players, that's not a good thing.
 
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I'm not interested in arguing whether or not the team is "good." They win games, and if that's your bottom line, I respect it.

I do think, when you pay close attention to the Tampa and Florida series, that's it's pretty obvious they're hitting a level where they can't compete once they get into round 3. There's a few teams that were/are much better, and I don't know if I see large improvement on the roster.

It's a brutal sport, and unfortunately, if you're not an S-tier team, I do think you need to assess the direction you're going in at a certain point.
 
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Machinehead said:
I'm not interested in arguing whether or not the team is "good." They win games, and if that's your bottom line, I respect it.

I do think, when you pay close attention to the Tampa and Florida series, that's it's pretty obvious they're hitting a level where they can't compete once they get into round 3. There's a few teams that were/are much better, and I don't know if I see large improvement on the roster.

It's a brutal sport, and unfortunately, if you're not an S-tier team, I do think you need to assess the direction you're going in at a certain point.
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Life sucks and then you die. Eat at Arby's. Everyone is a loser until one day they aren't.
 
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Savant said:
Goaltending gets you into the playoffs. Once you get in the playoffs its a crap shoot
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Again ECF, 2 of last 3. The goalie is part of the team. Having the best gets you deeper and a better chance. Yes, sometimes the weaker goalie gets hot, but 28 of them aren't. Our guy helped get us within games of the finals.
 
17futurecap said:
View attachment 898484

I think Trouba collaborated with @EdJovanovski on the full piece.
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I don’t even know how this take will be viewed here nowadays. I 100% understand that these are human beings, and that we should expect them to have a life outside of hockey. That said, I will continue to be unsurprised when they don’t win a Cup with players like Zibanejad and Trouba leading the way.

The all time greats at anything are obsessive. Players like Crosby, MacKinnon and McDavid do not DJ or put on art exhibitions in the offseason. They obsessively work on improving their games. Those habits bleed over to their teammates who either buy in or get shipped out.

A big part of the reason why players want to be here is because there is a shit load of fun stuff to get into outside of work. I firmly believe that that’s also a big part of the reason why this team never wins.
 
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The problem with Mika and Kreider isn't that they are here and important, it's that there is no true leader of the band, so to speak.

You could view that as a cap allocation issue or whatever, but we have a lot of a lot of Forsbergs, Adam Graves, Serge Federovs, and Marian Gaborik types and not a lot of Joe Sakics, Sidney Crosby, Mark Messiers, or Steve Yzermans

(Not trying to be xenophobic with the examples)
 
TGWL said:
There is no way Allaire is turning Garand into a legit starter before training camp starts where we can trade Shesterkin. If we're talking end of the season, the value coming back won't be remotely close to that for a UFA's rights.

I'm not sure what they're going to settle on with Shesterkin, but I look at the team that just won the presidents trophy and I think to myself, this team has a lot of holes and goaltending wasn't the biggest reason they won the regular season. That was obviously reversed in the playoffs. I then look at the current roster and the prospects coming in, and even if we get top 3 goaltending through-out the regular season, I'm not sure they have enough there to win without making some major moves, which will obviously be hindered by how much Shesterkin makes. Kinda' lose-lose scenario.
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Never said before training camp for Garand, the Ingram inclusion was for our tandem with Quick. Garand would join when ready. Believe me I love Igor, but I love him at this contract, I never even liked Hanks last contract to be honest. I feel we're about to become the Leafs only we'll have spent too much money on goaltending instead of forwards. Igor was great in playoffs but he was pretty average all year, if we givr him that massive deal and he just plays like he did last regular season we're toast.
 
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Shesterkybomb said:
Never said before training camp for Garand, the Ingram inclusion was for our tandem with Quick. Garand would join when ready. Believe me I love Igor, but I love him at this contract, I never even liked Hanks last contract to be honest. I feel we're about to become the Leafs only we'll have spent too much money on goaltending instead of forwards. Igor was great in playoffs but he was pretty average all year, if we givr him that massive deal and he just plays like he did last regular season we're toast.
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I agree, but realistically speaking I think we're unfortunately going to give him the money. When was the last time a NYR team under Dolan let a star player walk and go into FA instead of giving them the big bucks? Pay now, worry later is our motto.
 
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Savant said:
I don't think its a guarantee that they are constructed better. For them to be constructed better, basically you are saying that Jones is going to be outright better than Gus, and Trouba and Lindgren are going to continue their declines. I dont think any of that is a sure thing. Smith might be ok, but that line is always so dysfunctional anyway, I am not really sure how much that moves the needle. I don't think it matters how good Smith is/isn't if Zibanejad keeps trending down. IF Zibanejad is good, that line will be fine. If Zibanejad is not good its going to look bad again.

Trouba kneecapped them this off-season so this is probably the best that they could have done. I am glad they didn't lock into any silly term lengths. They are going to have to play the trade deadline game again in all likelihood. Honestly I was not high on the team for most of the year last year, and have a feeling that they could have the year that I thought they were going to have last year this year. That's why they play the games though. We will see
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Well that’s why I said slightly better *IMO*… I’m not making guarantees. But the fact that we will have upgrades over Pitlick, Bonino, Goodrow and Wheeler in Carrick and Smith, pretty much indicates that we should be better constructed. Gus and Jones to me is a wash. Schneider and Miller should be better. I expect that Lindgren and Trouba will not be as bad as last year, depending on their usage and health. Fox will be Fox. Chytil will likely play more and improve, Kakko shouldn’t be as hampered by injury, Pan may dip a little, but Zibs may bounce back. Laf will be better, Cuylle will likely be better. Neither Kreids nor Vinnie will be falling off a Cliff. We have big young forwards competing for bottom six. Would have been nice to clearly upgrade the the D, but all in all I still see us already slightly better and this may not be all that gets improved.

Beer League Sniper said:
This team doesn't suck, but it does have the same fatal flaw as last season. We have almost exactly the same roster. We had massive issues with our D being able to transition the puck under the high pressure of Carolina and Florida. We would have been laughed out of the building in both of those series if not for special teams and goaltending. Maybe we can luck our way into a deep run again this season, but I wouldn't be counting on it. Everyone in our core is a year older and, outside of a select couple players, that's not a good thing.
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Pretty similar, but Goodrow, Pitlick, Bonino and Wheeler out is all addition by subtraction. Sure we have flaws. Every team does. It’s still a good f***ing team. I’m looking forward to the season regardless.
 
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