Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[bhamill]

Colton has put up 22 and 17 goal seasons playing less than 15 minutes a game.

I’d say he’s objectively better at scoring goals.

Forechecking and smashing people are things too and he’s better at those.

Colton scored .21 goals per game this season. His 27yo season.
Kakko scored .21 goals per game this season... His 22yo season, a season coming back from a serious knee injury. And I'm betting Kakko played less mins per game without even looking it up. (edit: I looked it up, KK played about half a min less a game than Colton.)
Know how many NHL goals Colton scored in his 22yo season? Zero. His 23yo season? Zero. His 24yo season was his first.

Yes I already said Colton is a better forechecker. Its the only thing he does better. And yes, with the smashing part of forechecking
And I really LIKE Colton, but its a BAD trade.

 

[Circus86]

Can he play the left side?

He can play right side after we traded Trouba

 

[bhamill]

Never said KK was responsible for Mika or CKs play. CK had a solid season. Mika did not. KK did not. If KK can play at CKs level Id be thrilled.

wouldn't we all!

You're overlooking that Colton is a much more talented goal scorer. 22, 16, 17 over the last 3 years. Kakko scored 18 in the one year he was able to stay on the ice for the whole season. i get that he's young and might improve but its not happening here when he's incompatible with any of the Rangers top 6 players. Colton also plays a fearless style, and Kakko plays a "don't hurt me" style. That matters at this stage of the roster's evolution. We're looking at a very different discussion with kakko if Vesey didnt get hurt. he wouldve been a health bomb the rest of the ECF.

Colton and Kakko scored at the same goals per game rate this year, 0.21. With Kakko getting slightly less ATOI per game. That hardly screams "much more talented" for the 5 year older player...

 

[LOFIN]

 

[McRanger92]

Translation: "Please don't make me go back there Dolan!"

wouldn't we all!


Colton and Kakko scored at the same goals per game rate this year, 0.21. With Kakko getting slightly less ATOI per game. That hardly screams "much more talented" for the 5 year older player...

Theory alone can only take you so far. Actual>expected. Kakko also has played 1 fully healthy season in 5. It doesnt need to be Ross Colton but kakko has gotta go for a player that gives us something we lack. For his and our sakes.

 

[djzbad]

Just ran in to a Florida fan wearing a cool Stanley Cup jersey. He went to game 3 of our series. He said he thought we were going to beat them. He was very complimentary to our team.

Is this our equivalent of “respect in the handshake line” ? Haha

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Colton scored .21 goals per game this season. His 27yo season.
Kakko scored .21 goals per game this season... His 22yo season, a season coming back from a serious knee injury. And I'm betting Kakko played less mins per game without even looking it up.
Know how many NHL goals Colton scored in his 22yo season? Zero. His 23yo season? Zero. His 24yo season was his first.

Yes I already said Colton is a better forechecker. Its the only thing he does better. And yes, with the smashing part of forechecking
And I really LIKE Colton, but it’s a BAD trade.

Why are we just looking at last year?

How about the years before that?

Colton has a 22 goal season playing less than 13 minutes a game. His track record at scoring goals is undeniably better.

If you want to change the look of your top 9 while having no drop off (or even improvement) in putting pucks in the net, this is an easy place to start.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Translation: "Please don't make me go back there Dolan!"



Theory alone can only take you so far. Actual>expected. Kakko also has played 1 fully healthy season in 5.

I wouldn’t call missing a game or two unhealthy.
He got injured twice to freak accidents not concussion stuff.

 

[McRanger92]

I wouldn’t call missing a game or two unhealthy.
He got injured twice to freak accidents not concussion stuff.

Kakko's two biggest injuries came because he got hurt losing a board battle. One when Romanov broke his shoulder/wrist and the other when he got outmuscled and almost tore up his knee. It's not like hes the most conditioned guy in the world either.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Kakko's two biggest injuries came because he got hurt losing a board battle. One when Romanov broke his shoulder/wrist and the other when he got outmuscled and almost tore up his knee. It's not like hes the most conditioned guy in the world either.

So now we’re blaming a player for unlucky injuries?

 

[bhamill]

Translation: "Please don't make me go back there Dolan!"



Theory alone can only take you so far. Actual>expected. Kakko also has played 1 fully healthy season in 5. It doesnt need to be Ross Colton but kakko has gotta go for a player that gives us something we lack. For his and our sakes.

I get that buddy, I am not saying ANYTHING like "Kakko is untouchable", I'm saying selling low on him is bad for the team. If he goes for Colton and something that evens it out I'm fine with it. But if COL or anyyone else wants Kakko for less than we should get back, f*** it. Lets see what he does on his cheap "show me" deal.

 

[noncents]

KK is being paid $2.4 mill because that is the value his current play calls for. If he improves his play his value/salary will increase.

No offense but when KK doesn't produce it is never his fault. It is always the GM, his coaches, and teammates fault. If only we signed another player from Finland he would be a annual 80 point scorer.

I do not like that it seems like I'm bashing KK. I just do not think its fair for some posters to blame everyone but KK for KK's play.

kakko literally put up 40 ES points playing 3rd line minutes last year. That's production. that's depth scoring. where's the issue with his play vs cap hit last year?

then: this year he played with Zib and Kreider when the whole line was snakebit, then had a brutal leg injury and returned to play with bonino, brodzinski and wennberg who literally couldn't score if their lives depended on it.

He's not a star. but he's effective and if he has a C he gels with he can put up depth scoring at ES while tilting the ice.

again, if moving him improves the team then i have no issue with it. but people act like he's a net negative and it's so off.

 

[McRanger92]

I get that buddy, I am not saying ANYTHING like "Kakko is untouchable", I'm saying selling low on him is bad for the team. If he goes for Colton and something that evens it out I'm fine with it. But if COL or anyyone else wants Kakko for less than we should get back, f*** it. Lets see what he does on his cheap "show me" deal.

He was on the cheap show me deal last year and sucked. By most accounts the decision has already been made and both sides are looking to move on. Im just making suggestions on players who will fill his role and be better for us next year. if Kakko turns into a superstar elsewhere, I will be easy to find for the "we told you so"s".

 

[effen]

Relative value >>>> absolute value.

 

[bhamill]

Why are we just looking at last year?

How about the years before that?

Colton has a 22 goal season playing less than 13 minutes a game. His track record at scoring goals is undeniably better.

If you want to change the look of your top 9 while having no drop off (or even improvement) in putting pucks in the net, this is an easy place to start.

Year before Colton scored 0.19 goals per game.
Year before Kakko scored 0.22 goals per game.
And we are comparing players 5 years apart. Colton is pretty much what he is, his first NHL season was his 24yo season. Kakko is just going to play his 23yo season starting in the fall.

 

[McRanger92]

So now we’re blaming a player for unlucky injuries?

You are saying they are unlucky. I think they were unfortunate but not unlucky.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Is this our equivalent of “respect in the handshake line” ? Haha

No he was totally serious. I told him it didn't feel that way on my end. We spoke for 5 minutes. Very nice guy. Must feel on top of the world today. Was there for our game 3 OT win.

 

[effen]

Year before Colton scored 0.19 goals per game.
Year before Kakko scored 0.22 goals per game.
And we are comparing players 5 years apart. Colton is pretty much what he is, his first NHL season was his 24yo season. Kakko is just going to play his 23yo season starting in the fall.

The comparison is what Colton will do next year vs. what Kakko will do next year. Who cares what Kakko does in 4 years.

The other thing is Colton has 3 years of control and Kakko has 1, at which point you will have to pay him for potential and not actual results in hopes of that potential realizing.

 

[noncents]

He was on the cheap show me deal last year and sucked. By most accounts the decision has already been made and both sides are looking to move on. Im just making suggestions on players who will fill his role and be better for us next year. if Kakko turns into a superstar elsewhere, I will be easy to find for the "we told you so"s".

dude just say "i hate kakko and refuse to admit he provides any value whatsoever." i can respect you having a poor view of him because he was 2oa and you're disappointed by the lack of production.

but this narrative that he sucks is so overblown it's embarrassing.


nobody here is arguing that Kakko is on the verge of breaking out into a superstar or even a top 6 player. but the guy scored 40 ES points in his age 22 season, had a weak year last year:
- an effective but snake it run with 20-93c - brutal leg injury
- came back and played with terrible centers (and Chytil coming back into the fold after lengthy absence)

and now has signed a show me deal.

 

[bhamill]

He was on the cheap show me deal last year and sucked. By most accounts the decision has already been made and both sides are looking to move on. Im just making suggestions on players who will fill his role and be better for us next year. if Kakko turns into a superstar elsewhere, I will be easy to find for the "we told you so"s".

I wouldn't consider his last deal a "show me" deal. Yes he sucked. He also had a serious knee injury. He also scored goals at the same rate per game as Colton who people are telling me is a far more talented goal scorer... And again, if the deal gets us value I'm not opposed. But Kakko straight up for Colton is a bad trade for us. Its not about "Don't trade Kakko!" It's about "Don't sell low on Kakko!"
I'm really not interested in "I told you so-ing" anyone, even less, you. I'm just giving you my take on this.

 

[Synergy27]

So, does Florida winning put to bed the elite center depth argument? Their 2C is Evan friggin Rodrigues. Hate on Zib all you want, but he’s tiers above Rodrigues.

Our forwards are fine. I’d prefer to have an elite winger that performed in the playoffs than Panarin but that’s not happening.

Fix the defense. It’s the only reasonable option. Need to replace both Trouba and Lindgren with competent players and give Jones a ton of run all year next year. Add at the deadline again.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Year before Colton scored 0.19 goals per game.
Year before Kakko scored 0.22 goals per game.
And we are comparing players 5 years apart. Colton is pretty much what he is, his first NHL season was his 24yo season. Kakko is just going to play his 23yo season starting in the fall.

Yeah this is also the wrong way to look at it because usage is a thing...





Colton has been a better (or at least more efficient) goal scorer in every season they've overlapped outside of the last one.

 

[effen]

I wouldn't consider his last deal a "show me" deal. Yes he sucked. He also had a serious knee injury. He also scored goals at the same rate per game as Colton who people are telling me is a far more talented goal scorer... And again, if the deal gets us value I'm not opposed. But Kakko straight up for Colton is a bad trade for us. Its not about "Don't trade Kakko!" It's about "Don't sell low on Kakko!"
I'm really not interested in "I told you so-ing" anyone, even less, you. I'm just giving you my take on this.

I don't think Colton for Kakko is selling low. Colton's forechecking is a lot more valuable to the 24-25 New York Rangers than Kakko's defensive conscience and soulless board hugging, even if Kakko outscores him.

 

[noncents]

So, does Florida winning out to bed the elite center depth argument? Their 2C is Evan friggin Rodrigues. Hate in Zib all you want, but he’s tiers above Rodrigues.

Our forwards are fine. I’d prefer to have an elite winger that performed in the playoffs than Panarin but that’s not happening.

Fix the defense. It’s the only reasonable option. Need to replace both Trouba and Lindgren with competent players and give Jones a ton of run all year next year. Add at the deadline again.

rodriguez is a wing bro, Barkov Bennett Lundell

 

[Machinehead]

So, does Florida winning out to bed the elite center depth argument? Their 2C is Evan friggin Rodrigues. Hate in Zib all you want, but he’s tiers above Rodrigues.

Our forwards are fine. I’d prefer to have an elite winger that performed in the playoffs than Panarin but that’s not happening.

Fix the defense. It’s the only reasonable option. Need to replace both Trouba and Lindgren with competent players and give Jones a ton of run all year next year. Add at the deadline again.

At 2C, sure, Zibanejad is tiers above most.

And Barkov, McDavid, and most 1C's on contenders are well above Trocheck.