Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[bernmeister]

Rempe played and we lost when he played as well.

The above does not prove ANYTHING. We might (and probably would have) lost EVEN WORSE had he played critical minutes in the 3rd period.

Your track record is smoke.

I am calling you out for total bs, as evidenced by your quote in bold.

IF IF IF we lost signif %age when Remp played, THEN AND IN THAT EVENT, you would have a valid pt.

Not only did we win an even amount of the time w/Rempe, which is a push, but we won some crazy amount of the time.
Inexactly, it was something like 22-5.

So "we lost when he played ... " IS FACTUALLY WRONG

Let it go
Rempe's play proves he deserved more consideration than he got from Lav, which demonstrated favoring vets over youth, and since that end result = loss, it also = epic fail

 

[GAGLine]

Don’t think we can talk about Vasilevskiy winning a Cup with a big contract without talking about the fact that Tampa had their best player and his $9.5M cap hit on LTIR the entire regular season to be cap compliant.

The fact that they had to do that and then in the offseason they had to begin their process of major cost cutting is actually exactly the argument against giving huge goalie contracts.

If Valilevskiy had been making 6 mil that year instead of 9.5, they still would have needed LTIR to fit everyone under the cap, so your point is moot.

Vegas used LTIR to win a cup while paying Hill only 4.9 mil.

It's almost like all of the cap hits are added together and sometimes teams overspend by way of LTIR.

 

[McRanger92]

It can't be the only move they make but Kane was much better than I thought for Detroit last year, and he was hardly a PP merchant. He does fit the needs of the top 6 in that he can finish chances and complete a pass. He better take a joke of a contract if he really wants to "redeem" himself for 2023. Still would need more at forward and a revamp of the D but its not as horrible an idea as I thought.

 

[Synergy27]

Out of all the rumors of players who are available, Ehlers is still the best fit for what we need imo and we should be all in, Kakko+, prospect and pick

Kreider Mika Ehlers
Bread Troch Laf
Cuylle Chyil Othmann
I like all that.



Goalie Bob just dragged his team to the finals at 10 mil

Goalie Bob performed decently behind a very good team and is probably about to get reverse swept.

 

[Synergy27]

I’m trying to think of the outlier stats that would make a $12M goalie contract worth it.

McDavid scores what, 20 points more than the second best player most years? Let’s call it 20% better production for argument’s sake.

If we sign a goalie to a contract like that, what would we then have to demand consistently? A 0.935 SVP vs. 0.915 for the second tier of good goalies? A GAA under 2?

Again, there isn’t that much separation between the really good goalies and the just good ones. The difference between McDavid and Sebastian Aho is much, much bigger than the difference between Igor and Binnington.

 

[surlysailor]

Brooks saying nyr are likely to not move trouba and to use kk &30 to move up in the draft:

How Rangers are approaching critical Jacob Trouba decision after playoff struggles

Trouba has been an important part of establishing a pretty good culture here. His teammates universally respect him.

trib.al

 

[GAGLine]

I’m trying to think of the outlier stats that would make a $12M goalie contract worth it.

McDavid scores what, 20 points more than the second best player most years? Let’s call it 20% better production for argument’s sake.

If we sign a goalie to a contract like that, what would we then have to demand consistently? A 0.935 SVP vs. 0.915 for the second tier of good goalies? A GAA under 2?

Again, there isn’t that much separation between the really good goalies and the just good ones. The difference between McDavid and Sebastian Aho is much, much bigger than the difference between Igor and Binnington.

It's more difficult to quantify, and because of that, I wouldn't say it's necessarily true.

How much will McDavid get on his next contract? It's not really fair to compare Igor getting a new contract at 29 to McDavid on the end of a contract he signed at age 20.

Matthews just got 13.25 mil. McDavid will probably get 14-15 mil.

It's a free market system. Players get paid what the market dictates. In the end, winning is about maximizing value. We could say that Igor at 12 mil would be overpaid relative to his value to the team, but we could say that about a lot of players. There isn't a team in the league who doesn't have a player making more than they are objectively worth. But if that player is high enough value, then overpaying a bit isn't an issue. I'd rather have an overpaid superstar than an overpaid boat anchor.

This is why drafting well and having a steady pipeline of cheap talent is essential. There will always be some players who get paid too much. That has to be offset by players making less than they are worth if teams want to win.

None of this is to say that we absolutely should give Igor 12 mil. I just think the argument that we can't win with a 12-mil goalie is ridiculous. Paying less for a goalie doesn't automatically make the rest of the team better. More teams fail because they don't have adequate goaltending than do teams who pay a premium for quality goaltending.

 

[Tob]

move lindgren, keep trouba.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

move lindgren, keep trouba.

 

[NJRangers35]

Brooks saying nyr are likely to not move trouba and to use kk &30 to move up in the draft:

How Rangers are approaching critical Jacob Trouba decision after playoff struggles

Trouba has been an important part of establishing a pretty good culture here. His teammates universally respect him.

trib.al

I’m truly worried if this is drurys mindset. Keep trouba. Likes tanev. Wants to use kakko to move up in the draft. Kane as a priority. He’s starting to make me nervous that he’s not the guy to get this team over the hump.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Brooks saying nyr are likely to not move trouba and to use kk &30 to move up in the draft:

How Rangers are approaching critical Jacob Trouba decision after playoff struggles

Trouba has been an important part of establishing a pretty good culture here. His teammates universally respect him.

trib.al

If the NYR front office really thinks the lesson is to put a priority on “menacing”…good luck.

 

[Atax]

It really depends on what Kane is asking for. Would be hard to pass on him if he only wanted 2-3 mil on a year deal. Not like well have a better RW for that amount. Unless youd rather have a plug like Ros or one of our rookies. And I doubt the coach is going to trust a rookie on the 2nd line.

Doesnt bother me either way, as long as they upgrade the D first.

 

[SA16]

Brooks saying nyr are likely to not move trouba and to use kk &30 to move up in the draft:

How Rangers are approaching critical Jacob Trouba decision after playoff struggles

Trouba has been an important part of establishing a pretty good culture here. His teammates universally respect him.

trib.al

How is Larry possibly coming up with an approximate 15M between Laf/Miller on their next contracts? Is he expecting Miller to get 7m?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I am calling you out for total bs, as evidenced by your quote in bold.

IF IF IF we lost signif %age when Remp played, THEN AND IN THAT EVENT, you would have a valid pt.

Not only did we win an even amount of the time w/Rempe, which is a push, but we won some crazy amount of the time.
Inexactly, it was something like 22-5.

So "we lost when he played ... " IS FACTUALLY WRONG

Let it go
Rempe's play proves he deserved more consideration than he got from Lav, which demonstrated favoring vets over youth, and since that end result = loss, it also = epic fail

You are arguing correlation over causation. I like Rempe but its silly to think he caused most those wins playing 5 minutes a game.

 

[Gardner McKay]

There really isn't. In the cap era, there aren't that many goalies who have had that high of a cap hit.

Lundqvist (8.5)
Price (10.5)
Bobrovsky (10)
Vasilevskiy (9.5)
Hellebuyck (8.5)
Sorokin (8.25)

I think those are all of the goalies who have had cap hits of 8 mil or higher. If there are others, I can't remember them.

Hellebuyck and Sorokin have each spent 1 season at those cap numbers. It's far too soon to say their teams can't win with them making that much.

Vasilevskiy won a cup the first year he was making 9.5 mil. Lundqvist and Price have both been to the finals, and Bobrovsky has been to the finals twice (and still has a chance to win a cup).

The sample size is way too small to say that teams can't win with goalies being paid a premium. In fact, the limited evidence actually suggests that having a highly paid goalie is beneficial. Four of the six goalies have made it to the finals, one of them twice, and one has won a cup.

Does spending more on a goalie mean the team has less money to spend on other players? Absolutely. But if the goalie is the team's best player, him having a high cap hit isn't an issue. We can just as easily point to Panarin, and his 11.6 mil cap hit, and say that he is the reason the Rangers can't win a cup.

And only Vasilevsky has won a cup.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's not that goalies aren't important. They just can't eat too much of your cap.

But also, look at Edmonton. Hunter Skinner? Who was it last year for Vegas. Brossoit? What are they making.

Kuemper was making $4.5 million when Colorado won it.

What was Jordan Binnington's salary when the Blues won the cup?

 

[surlysailor]

It really depends on what Kane is asking for. Would be hard to pass on him if he only wanted 2-3 mil on a year deal. Not like well have a better RW for that amount. Unless youd rather have a plug like Ros or one of our rookies. And I doubt the coach is going to trust a rookie on the 2nd line.

Doesnt bother me either way, as long as they upgrade the D first.

According to Johnston Kane wants a 3 year deal maybe 2:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805211891926466755

 

[Atax]

According to Johnston Kane wants a 3 year deal maybe 2:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1805211891926466755

Yeah pass on the 3 year deal. I dont think any team is going to give him 3 years. Maybe some cap floor team.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Brooks saying nyr are likely to not move trouba and to use kk &30 to move up in the draft:

How Rangers are approaching critical Jacob Trouba decision after playoff struggles

Trouba has been an important part of establishing a pretty good culture here. His teammates universally respect him.

trib.al

Neither of those decisions make any sense

 

[RangerBoy]

Smoke from who?

 

[Atax]

Lol Brooks. Insinuating that Kakko didnt succeed because we didnt sign a vet from Finland to babysit him. Give me a break.

 

[Synergy27]

I’m truly worried if this is drurys mindset. Keep trouba. Likes tanev. Wants to use kakko to move up in the draft. Kane as a priority. He’s starting to make me nervous that he’s not the guy to get this team over the hump.

Yeah we’re completely fuxked if this is where Drury is.

 

[RangerBoy]

Neither of those decisions make any sense

Who is replacing Trouba?

Kakko wants a fresh start. It's not hard to understand.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The only part of that article that I even kind of liked was Tanev.

Tanev is great, but Tanev is great if you're dumping Trouba.

The D doesn't need to get menacing, it just needs to get better.

 

[NYR Viper]

It can't be the only move they make but Kane was much better than I thought for Detroit last year, and he was hardly a PP merchant. He does fit the needs of the top 6 in that he can finish chances and complete a pass. He better take a joke of a contract if he really wants to "redeem" himself for 2023. Still would need more at forward and a revamp of the D but its not as horrible an idea as I thought.

I put the Kane rumors in the 'it depends' category. If he's looking for $6m, then no. If he's looking for $3.5m then it's a no-brainer.

What people also need to understand is that injuries happen. The Rangers forwards were amazingly healthy this year. Imagine a scenario where Panarin or Lafreniere miss 10-15 games, or more. Or Zibanejad misses significant time.

Patrick Kane is a play-driving winger who, while not overly physical, does make his linemates better.

Oh, he also was coming back from a surgery that everyone in the world thought would be career-ending so I am expecting him to actually be BETTER this year and he had 47 points in 50 games last year.

How is Larry possibly coming up with an approximate 15M between Laf/Miller on their next contracts? Is he expecting Miller to get 7m?

I could see $5.5m for Miller and $9m for Lafreniere. Or $6m for Miller and $8.5m for Lafreniere. I don't see that as far-fetched depending on how this season goes

 

[Raspewtin]

already sick of the apologia for Lindgren and Trouba from this board and the media. I didn't think moving Trouba was likely but all this horseshit about how respected he is and what a culture driver he is is meaningless. He should drive better play maybe.

The only part of that article that I even kind of liked was Tanev.

Tanev is great, but Tanev is great if you're dumping Trouba.

The D doesn't need to get menacing, it just needs to get better.

yeah but didn't you hear that all of Edmonton's D are like 6'9"?