Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[jay from jersey]

Would you do K’Andre for Batherson? Go.

I would do it for pinto.
I think he’s got a really bright future.
It would be like buying low on Thomas before he exploded in St. Louis…

Miller isn't a finished product either… he’s got 4-5 NHL seasons under his belt, but he switched to a defenseman late in the game.
D, especially Big D-Men usually don’t hit their prime until 26-27….
I just wish he would learn more from his mistakes and repeat them less.
He’s still is/going to be a quality defenseman.

 

[bhamill]

Not for nothing but the 40 point season looks like the accident based on the rest of his career seasons. I know I come off as anti-Kakko but Im trying to be practical here. If we let our hopes and dreams for Kakko get in the way of actually improvement to the roster, that's a problem. If Kakko wanted his to future roster position to be secure, he shouldve played better. The Rangers just lopped off the head of Goodrow who actually played hard 100% of the time and showed up when it mattered most. We need more actual goals, not expected goals.

I don't take you as anti-Kakko, we just have different takes on it.
For me, THIS season was definitely the fluke.
At 18 he had 0.34PPG
At 19 0.35PPG
At 20 0.52PPg
At 21, his 40pt season, 0.48PPG
At 22, this season, in which he suffered a serious knee injury, 0.31PPG, his WORST, lower than at 18. How could that be seen as anything but an outlier?

 

[noncents]

cuylle is a great option for 4LW.

Cuylle Edstrom/Brodz Vesey/Edstrom

is a great 4th line -> 13th fwd rotation.

Find RW for KZ (mangiapane?) and see how Berard does with Chytil and Kakko.

the D is what needs the serious work

 

[IronBloodedLion]

That’s the wrong approach, needs to be a mobile, high end defender with good puck moving ability.

Especially in today’s game. One thing you notice when watching the cup finals is the defenseman’s ability to carry the puck up the ice and make a play.

 

[bernmeister]

Kakko out would be another step in the right direction from a production standpoint. One of Chytil/Trocheck will be on the 3rd line next year so that will help as well.

disagree
we are losing bread possibly as early as this season
LaF we likely keep but if too much on the table to turn down, that has to be considered

So giving up a guy like KK who has tools + upside and just needs a pivot to = chem w/Cuylle, makes no sense

 

[bhamill]

Kakko's even strength point totals pro-rated to 82 games

Year 1 - 12
Year 2 - 24
Year 3 - 31
Year 4 - 37
Year 5 - 24

He was mega ass as a rookie and I think it's fair to just forget about that one. Beyond that, it doesn't seem like that much of an outlier. Year 4 outlies more based on a four-year average of 29.

Year 4, of a stretch that started with him at 18... that is development and progression to get to 37. If anything I consider it an outlier that he backslid to his 19yo numbers. Other than this season, his numbers improved every year...

 

[Machinehead]

This is how teams use their goalies now. Workload management is way more of a focus than it was even 10 years ago.

I'd like for them to go into this season with him unsigned rather than hand out the biggest contract given to a goalie ever. Money is a powerful motivator and if he wants to get that contract, alright, go do some shit that makes me okay with paying you that much money.

I will say that by saying that Igor has to this point his his career been a better playoff goalie than Hank ever was. It's not really that close either. Between the 2 of them he's had the 2 best xGSA runs and these numbers are cumulative and this will be the 3rd year in a row that he finishes 1 or 2 for the playoffs despite not playing beyond the 3rd round (he was #2 last year and they got eliminated in the 1st round!) I know he gave up some stupid goals during the Florida series but Hank also gave up dumb shit in the playoffs too (as does every goalie.)

12 million is goofy nonsense so on that point I agree. I think the ship sailed on getting him at even 10 for 8. They won't trade him now - the only realistic options IMO are

1. Extension
2. Trade mid season if the Rangers are out of it
3. Walks as a UFA

I think people forget that out of Hank's three deepest runs, 2/3 were legitimately good teams. The 2015 team played all of their series basically even. In 2014, Hank could have slept through the Flyers series and the Habs series (and he f***ing did sleep through the Flyers series LMAO).

Igor has now been to the ECF on two teams that got outplayed almost the entire playoffs. The Carolina series was ok at best both times. The ECF opponent skated circles around us both times. Pittsburgh DESTROYED us in 2022 (that was the biggest goalie steal of either guy's career). And tbh we sucked against Washington.

I didn't wanna die on the hill at the time but now I don't care: if Washington had a f***ing ounce of talent, that series goes 7.

 

[noncents]

Not for nothing but the 40 point season looks like the accident based on the rest of his career seasons. I know I come off as anti-Kakko but Im trying to be practical here. If we let our hopes and dreams for Kakko get in the way of actually improvement to the roster, that's a problem. If Kakko wanted his to future roster position to be secure, he shouldve played better. The Rangers just lopped off the head of Goodrow who actually played hard 100% of the time and showed up when it mattered most. We need more actual goals, not expected goals.

 

[Guyute]

Frank speculates that Ross Colton is available from Colorado because they need cap space for Mittelstadt, who has pushed Colton down the lineup.

Kakko for Colton please. Let's go.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Frank speculates that Ross Colton is available from Colorado because they need cap space for Mittelstadt, who has pushed Colton down the lineup.

Kakko for Colton please. Let's go.

God no.

 

[surlysailor]

I would do it for pinto.
I think he’s got a really bright future.
It would be like buying low on Thomas before he exploded in St. Louis…

Miller isn't a finished product either… he’s got 4-5 NHL seasons under his belt, but he switched to a defenseman late in the game.
D, especially Big D-Men usually don’t hit their prime until 26-27….
I just wish he would learn more from his mistakes and repeat them less.
He’s still is/going to be a quality defenseman.

Ott still says no. Maybe for Schneider but they don’t need another top 4 ld. They have chabot & Sanderson ahead of miller plus they kleven who already got some games in.

 

[bernmeister]

Too many question marks for a 3rd line in my opinion. Can Cuylle produce? Can Chytil stay healthy? Can Kakko produce?

If I were betting, I do think it will be Chytil and Kakko on the line. Last time Kakko looked comfortable being a positive on ice was with Chytil. I think they need to find a good wing who can help elevate that line offensively. That's not Cuylle right now.

fair 'nuf agree to disag.
we concur there is suf chem Chyi + KK
? is if we see that w/KK + Cuyle also

Am willing to see what works

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Priority #1 is finding a proper partner for Fox. Even if it's not a star 1LD by definition this player will be expensive.
Priority #2 is finding a top-6 RW. Again by definition this player is going to be somewhat expensive for cap purposes.
I can see how some of you are saying moving Trouba at this point is not a priority (at least relative to these above), that he can still contribute to the team as Captain / part of the vet leadership, that he's a physical menace opponents need to watch out for and he's big body for PK and clearing the crease in front of Shesterkin. I can somewhat reluctantly agree with these points, but all indications are that Schneider is well on the way to overtake Trouba on the depth chart meaning we're talking about $8m cap hit for 3RD and that's where I have an issue in the context of the top-2 external offseason priorities for Drury (besides negotiating extensions for Shesterkin, Lafreniere and Miller).
Priorities #1 and #2 cannot be addresses without moving Trouba and reallocating his cap hit.

Ideally he is moved but I'd counter this by saying that Priority #1 doesn't happen if you keep Lindgren.

Just from a "down the road" perspective, the biggest no brainer left is to move on from him. Trouba is an expensive problem but he's an expensive problem for 2 years max (and if they need to, they can buy him out of the last year of his deal. The fall out from that isn't that bad.) Lindgren is going most likely going to be looking at a deal of 4 or more years. The cap hit won't be as high but thats 2 or more years where he's going to be an issue. If the thought process is that you can slide him down to the bottom pair, thats a ton of money+term to lock up a bottom pair defender for. Most bottom pairs in the league are a revolving door of one year UFA signings. Even on good teams (see: Florida.)

I'm not at all confident that Lindgren would slide down if he's kept anyway. Lavi gave it a look a few times this year and always went back to throwing him on a pair with Fox. Most likely because he didn't like what he saw from Lindgren+ who ever was playing with.

 

[Guyute]

God no.

Why? He's a center, he's fast, and he's an absolute menace on the forecheck which are all things we desperately need. He also only costs $4 million AAV. The downsides are Colton takes dumb penalties and could improve on face-offs.

Edit: He's from Northern Jersey, so I'm sure he would be stoked to play here. Also a decent puck possession numbers.

 

[duhmetreE]

Until we get top paid players that perform in big games, it will be more of the same.

Laffy would need a McDavid type of performance to carry these schlubs. If he continues to improve and gets PP1 time there’s a chance

 

[kovazub94]

Ideally he is moved but I'd counter this by saying that Priority #1 doesn't happen if you keep Lindgren.

Just from a "down the road" perspective, the biggest no brainer left is to move on from him. Trouba is an expensive problem but he's an expensive problem for 2 years max (and if they need to, they can buy him out of the last year of his deal. The fall out from that isn't that bad.) Lindgren is going most likely going to be looking at a deal of 4 or more years. The cap hit won't be as high but thats 2 or more years where he's going to be an issue. If the thought process is that you can slide him down to the bottom pair, thats a ton of money+term to lock up a bottom pair defender for. Most bottom pairs in the league are a revolving door of one year UFA signings. Even on good teams (see: Florida.)

I'm not at all confident that Lindgren would slide down if he's kept anyway. Lavi gave it a look a few times this year and always went back to throwing him on a pair with Fox. Most likely because he didn't like what he saw from Lindgren+ who ever was playing with.

Keeping Lindgren will make it even more cost prohibitive, but I was going under assumption that keeping Lindgren will require a number in $4-$5 range while partner for Fox will be even more expensive like $6-$7 range.

 

[surlysailor]

Why? He's a center, he's fast, and he's an absolute menace on the forecheck which are all things we desperately need. He also only costs $4 million AAV. The downsides are Colton takes dumb penalties and could improve on face-offs.

I don't hate the idea of Colton, the contract is a bit high for my liking but a) if they need to clear the space then NYR prob wouldn't be sending money back in the deal and b) they're if they're trying to clear the space they're some what desperate so try to get the deal done for a little as possible. I do wonder if he can play w. I'm not a fan of Chytil at rw but would like it if he was there to take face-offs and then slide to wing or be an in case of emergency will be the 3c.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Why? He's a center, he's fast, and he's an absolute menace on the forecheck which are all things we desperately need. He also only costs $4 million AAV. The downsides are Colton takes dumb penalties and could improve on face-offs.

Edit: He's from Northern Jersey, so I'm sure he would be stoked to play here

So we double Kakko’s cap hit for a player who we can’t trust in big moments?
Kakko may not be great offensively but Colton is equally as bad.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think people forget that out of Hank's three deepest runs, 2/3 were legitimately good teams. The 2015 team played all of their series basically even. In 2014, Hank could have slept through the Flyers series and the Habs series (and he f***ing did sleep through the Flyers series LMAO).

Igor has now been to the ECF on two teams that got outplayed almost the entire playoffs. The Carolina series was ok at best both times. The ECF opponent skated circles around us both times. Pittsburgh DESTROYED us in 2022 (that was the biggest goalie steal of either guy's career). And tbh we sucked against Washington.

I didn't wanna die on the hill at the time but now I don't care: if Washington had a f***ing ounce of talent, that series goes 7.

I think the Rangers just basically did the bare minimum to get through that one and thats backed up with them looking better against a much, much, much more difficult opponent in Carolina a round later. That series doesn't really bother me that much - they swept a team that was bad giving 60% for most of the series.

Disagree with their series vs Carolina being okay in 2022, that series was also a shit show until the Rangers figured out Carolina's PK, then it was a shit show with the Rangers roasting them on ST's. This year at least I thought generally they were okay and 100% deserved to win the series (while continuing to roast them in ST's.)

I think Igor being #2 last year (behind Bobrovsky, who was on his way to setting every all time record before he got pumped in the finals) after 1 round is the most telling. He's at least one of the few guys in the league who has shown the capability across multiple years that he can steal a series. Would be nice if they can put a team that is strong enough in front of him to take advantage of that and this up coming season may be the only one where they can do that before salaries get out of control.

Keeping Lindgren will make it even more cost prohibitive, but I was going under assumption that keeping Lindgren will require a number in $4-$5 range while partner for Fox will be even more expensive like $6-$7 range.

6-7 may be conservative, but yeah.

I think if you're looking at just next year, then it makes more sense to try to move Trouba out now from a cap perspective. If you're looking down the line, we're all going to wish we had the 4-5 that Lindgren probably gets this off season pretty much immediately. Trouba is a problem they can rectify next summer even with out a taker.

 

[Atax]

Keeping Lindgren will make it even more cost prohibitive, but I was going under assumption that keeping Lindgren will require a number in $4-$5 range while partner for Fox will be even more expensive like $6-$7 range.

Why not plug Miller there? Fox's only weakness is his speed. Miller has that in droves.

 

[Guyute]

So we double Kakko’s cap hit for a player who we can’t trust in big moments?
Kakko may not be great offensively

Why can't we trust him in big moments?

 

[noncents]

Why can't we trust him in big moments?

i believe he was referring to aforementioned propensity for bad penalties.

 

[jay from jersey]

JT Miller?

Mostly a wing here. The brain trust would have never put him at center

 

[IDvsEGO]

Why can't we trust him in big moments?

When you take bad penalties you can’t be trusted to not take bad penalties. He doesn’t have the production to force a coach to ignore that.

 

[Machinehead]

Colton is fine.

I'm not sure he's somebody I would seek out versus just giving Berard a chance.