Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[bhamill]

Kakko out would be another step in the right direction from a production standpoint. One of Chytil/Trocheck will be on the 3rd line next year so that will help as well.

I consider this a fluke lost year for Kakko. He didn't get to 40EV points last year by accident. I'll consider this coming season telling.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Honestly did you watch him in Hartford this season? There is no comparison between him and Othmann 5 on 5.
Guy was probably best player we had at creating offense, carrying the puck thru the neutral zone and getting to he dirty areas.

Wasn’t comparing him to Othmann.

He still needs to work on his defense, and his 48 points on the year isnt anything that mind blowing.

Will hopefully turn into good 3rd liner, or even 2nd liner that plays with grit and has a bit of speed , but I don’t see much more than that.

Gabe has 1st line potential all over him.

 

[bhamill]

I wanted to see what 50-16-24 could do!

I would also, but 16 needs more than 3rd line minutes, IMO.

 

[bl02]

Why?

His game is ready. If he turns pro it means his body is as well.

There’s no need to send a guy to Hartford for the sake of it.

Not for the sake of it. That he continues to learn the pro game even if its for just half a season. Also allow his body to physically adjust to a much more physical game.
But if he comes into camp at 20 years old and he blows everyone away then I guess he's gonna be given a chance probably in the bottom 6.
Also Panarin/Kreider still here where is he playing? 3rd or 4th line I hope not.

 

[DanielBrassard]

you said the same "not the right fit" things about mangiapane earlier. what do you mean?

Theodore is not a particularly good defensive player at this stage of his career. I think if you are upgrading Lindgren the replacement needs to be someone who is extremely effective at defending but is adequate enough moving the puck rather than an elite puckmover who doesn’t defend well.

As for Mangiapane he’s not a guy who is a distributor, so if you play him with Kreider and Zibanejad the same issues that have occurred in the past will continue going forward.

 

[bl02]

Wasn’t comparing him to Othmann.

He still needs to work on his defense, and his 48 points on the year isnt anything that mind blowing.

Will hopefully turn into good 3rd liner, or even 2nd liner that plays with grit and has a bit of speed , but I don’t see much more than that.

Gabe has 1st line potential all over him.

I realize you weren't just brought up Othmann because some are plugging him in the top 9 when Berard is a much better player. I mean 5 on 5 its not even close.
Potential potential. Yep I have heard that before. Like I said both are currently our top prospects. Just one has proven he was good at the pro level already. Hopefully Perreault will do the same.
And Berard would fit this team like a glove right now. We need more of what Berard can bring.

 

[Savant]

Theodore is not a particularly good defensive player at this stage of his career. I think if you are upgrading Lindgren the replacement needs to be someone who is extremely effective at defending but is adequate enough moving the puck rather than an elite puckmover who doesn’t defend well.

As for Mangiapane he’s not a guy who is a distributor, so if you play him with Kreider and Zibanejad the same issues that have occurred in the past will continue going forward.

Completely disagree on defense. This team cannot move the puck at all, and if they need to sacrifice some defense to do that, so be it. We don’t need another pylon. Obviously you want someone that can do both, but Fox is our only Dman that can handle a transition right now. That is a major problem.

Also if you are going to carry your toughness on the 4th line (which kind of looks like the direction of travel here) you are going to need to have some offensive output picked up from other spots on the ice.

As far RW2, they just need to worry about the defense first and see what they have left over. Vet buy-out guy who can take less; try to get one of those Dallas/Florida teams although may be tougher with state income tax. But yeah for forwards they have some internal solution they can try. They have nothing in house on defense

 

[bl02]

othmann is not our best prospect and it’s not particularly close lol

I think people need to pump the brakes on the expectations for him cause he probably won’t meet them.

Wasn't talking about Othmann. Othmann is probably 4/5 top prospect for this organization right now.

 

[bhamill]

I realize you weren't just brought up Othmann because some are plugging him in the top 9 when Berard is a much better player. I mean 5 on 5 its not even close.
Potential potential. Yep I have heard that before. Like I said both are currently our top prospects. Just one has proven he was good at the pro level already. Hopefully Perreault will do the same.
And Berard would fit this team like a glove right now. We need more of what Berard can bring.

Berard and GP are probably our two top prospects, but they are NOT in the same tier...

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Theodore is not a particularly good defensive player at this stage of his career. I think if you are upgrading Lindgren the replacement needs to be someone who is extremely effective at defending but is adequate enough moving the puck rather than an elite puckmover who doesn’t defend well.

As for Mangiapane he’s not a guy who is a distributor, so if you play him with Kreider and Zibanejad the same issues that have occurred in the past will continue going forward.

I appreciate your point but think the NYR could definitely stand to add another player on D who excels at moving the puck. As it stands they really have 1. Cutting out the players who are negative impacts in that regard are one thing, but they really should have at least 2 players who are very good at it IMO.

 

[mas0764]

If the Kings can trade PLDouche with 7 years left, the Rangers can trade Trouba with 2 years left.

And get an asset back.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I appreciate your point but think the NYR could definitely stand to add another player on D who excels at moving the puck. As it stands they really have 1. Cutting out the players who are negative impacts in that regard are one thing, but they really should have at least 2 players who are very good at it IMO.

I’m not against that at all, but to partner with Fox, I want someone in the mould of say Stralman in his prime not a Theodore type. I’m not saying we need a big slug who only defends.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not for the sake of it. That he continues to learn the pro game even if its for just half a season. Also allow his body to physically adjust to a much more physical game.
But if he comes into camp at 20 years old and he blows everyone away then I guess he's gonna be given a chance probably in the bottom 6.
Also Panarin/Kreider still here where is he playing? 3rd or 4th line I hope not.

I'm running on the assumption that Panarin is gone between now and then. I feel like if they want to keep the guys they need to extend next year he has to be gone. Just Trouba won't be enough to keep most of the team around (there are other players they can move on from as well, but no one with that price tag.) Play style wise, they're similar-ish so while you can expect some drop off, at least you're not trying to stuff a square peg into a round hole.

I think the adjustment to pro hockey via the minors is beneficial to some (most?) players, I don't think he'll need it.

I like Berard a ton and wish they had given him a look before deciding that they wanted to seek help outside of the organization to try and solution 1RW instead of just deciding that it wasn't an option outright, but he isn't in the same class.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’m not against that at all, but to partner with Fox, I want someone in the mould of say Stralman in his prime not a Theodore type. I’m not saying we need a big slug who only defends.

I don't mind Theodore even if the defense continues to be not good.

All for pushing a top pair that is going to blaze on offense. You can create a matchup heavy pair somewhere else.

 

[haohmaru]

I’m not against that at all, but to partner with Fox, I want someone in the mould of say Stralman in his prime not a Theodore type. I’m not saying we need a big slug who only defends.

I’d rather have a Buekeboom type with Fox.

 

[kovazub94]

I don't want Vesey on the 3rd line. Othmann can play RW.

Cuylle-Chytil-Othmann is a better option, assuming Chytil can stay healthy.

Rotation of Othmann / Berard there. Both need games so I'm fine with them platooning this spot if the "other" is playing in the AHL.

 

[Machinehead]

Theodore isn't a perfect fit, but it doesn't need to be.

It needs to not be Ryan Lindgren.

 

[Guyute]

I'm extremely wary of paying Igor over $10 million for 8 years. He isn't as good or as consistent and Lundqvist. He isn't a total workhorse like Lundqvist either. Henrik played over 60 games per year in his prime, and he rarely suffered stretches of poor play like Igor endured this past January to the All Star break. Igor plays around 55 games per year.

If we can't get him signed for $9.5-$10 million, I seriously would consider moving him.

Maybe going into this season unsigned hurts his performance and lowers his asking price.

 

[SA16]

I'm extremely wary of paying Igor over $10 million for 8 years. He isn't as good or as consistent and Lundqvist. He isn't a total workhorse like Lundqvist either. Henrik played over 60 games per year in his prime, and he rarely suffered stretches of poor play like Igor endured this past January to the All Star break. Igor plays around 55 games per year.

If we can't get him signed for $9.5-$10 million, I seriously would consider moving him.

Maybe going into this season unsigned hurts his performance and lowers his asking price.

That's just the evolution of the goaltending position. Only 3 goalies started 60 games this year. When Lundqvist played 70+ games from 2006 to 2009 there were 12,13,10,13 to start 60.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I’d rather have a Buekeboom type with Fox.

That’s what Lindgren is. Can we get away from that please?
If you get Fox a defensive defenseman who can legit move the puck, a slavin for example, we’d have the best top pair in the nhl.

 

[McRanger92]

I consider this a fluke lost year for Kakko. He didn't get to 40EV points last year by accident. I'll consider this coming season telling.

Not for nothing but the 40 point season looks like the accident based on the rest of his career seasons. I know I come off as anti-Kakko but Im trying to be practical here. If we let our hopes and dreams for Kakko get in the way of actually improvement to the roster, that's a problem. If Kakko wanted his to future roster position to be secure, he shouldve played better. The Rangers just lopped off the head of Goodrow who actually played hard 100% of the time and showed up when it mattered most. We need more actual goals, not expected goals.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I’d rather have a Buekeboom type with Fox.

That’s the wrong approach, needs to be a mobile, high end defender with good puck moving ability.

 

[kovazub94]

Priority #1 is finding a proper partner for Fox. Even if it's not a star 1LD by definition this player will be expensive.
Priority #2 is finding a top-6 RW. Again by definition this player is going to be somewhat expensive for cap purposes.
I can see how some of you are saying moving Trouba at this point is not a priority (at least relative to these above), that he can still contribute to the team as Captain / part of the vet leadership, that he's a physical menace opponents need to watch out for and he's big body for PK and clearing the crease in front of Shesterkin. I can somewhat reluctantly agree with these points, but all indications are that Schneider is well on the way to overtake Trouba on the depth chart meaning we're talking about $8m cap hit for 3RD and that's where I have an issue in the context of the top-2 external offseason priorities for Drury (besides negotiating extensions for Shesterkin, Lafreniere and Miller).
Priorities #1 and #2 cannot be addresses without moving Trouba and reallocating his cap hit.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm extremely wary of paying Igor over $10 million for 8 years. He isn't as good or as consistent and Lundqvist. He isn't a total workhorse like Lundqvist either. Henrik played over 60 games per year in his prime, and he rarely suffered stretches of poor play like Igor endured this past January to the All Star break. Igor plays around 55 games per year.

If we can't get him signed for $9.5-$10 million, I seriously would consider moving him.

Maybe going into this season unsigned hurts his performance and lowers his asking price.

This is how teams use their goalies now. Workload management is way more of a focus than it was even 10 years ago.

I'd like for them to go into this season with him unsigned rather than hand out the biggest contract given to a goalie ever. Money is a powerful motivator and if he wants to get that contract, alright, go do some shit that makes me okay with paying you that much money.

I will say that by saying that Igor has to this point his his career been a better playoff goalie than Hank ever was. It's not really that close either. Between the 2 of them he's had the 2 best xGSA runs and these numbers are cumulative and this will be the 3rd year in a row that he finishes 1 or 2 for the playoffs despite not playing beyond the 3rd round (he was #2 last year and they got eliminated in the 1st round!) I know he gave up some stupid goals during the Florida series but Hank also gave up dumb shit in the playoffs too (as does every goalie.)

12 million is goofy nonsense so on that point I agree. I think the ship sailed on getting him at even 10 for 8. They won't trade him now - the only realistic options IMO are

1. Extension
2. Trade mid season if the Rangers are out of it
3. Walks as a UFA

 

[Machinehead]

Kakko's even strength point totals pro-rated to 82 games

Year 1 - 12
Year 2 - 24
Year 3 - 31
Year 4 - 37
Year 5 - 24

He was mega ass as a rookie and I think it's fair to just forget about that one. Beyond that, it doesn't seem like that much of an outlier. Year 4 outlies more based on a four-year average of 29.